Talk:Deruvian

Protomartyr

I have chosen not to cite[1] as evidence that Dyfan was the first martyr of Britain because the article gives no source. I suspect the author may have assumed the Welsh title "Merthyr" always indicates a martyr (it needn't) and leapt to a conclusion. Gleyshon (talk) 09:44, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

It needeth but ...blogspot.co.uk is generally going to fail WP:RS, particularly with medieval pseudohistory heavily dosed with Mr Williams's forgeries as with the present article. — LlywelynII 23:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Name

Most of us know articles should be at their WP:COMMON WP:ENGLISH names, but there are important caveats:

Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. Neutrality is also considered... When there are multiple names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others.

This is such a case. His most common name in present saints lists by a country mile is "Damian(us)" (it crushes the ngram) but he's not the common "Saint Damian" and as Ussher details that name is a clear error introduced (probably in Italy) centuries after his name appeared; "Dyfan" is more common than the accurate names but as Bartrum notes that rests on a modern conflation of Saint Fagan's partner—made by Iolo Morganwg, noted historical forger—with another saint of entirely separate provenance. If we're talking about St Fagan's partner, we're on much firmer ground going back to the earliest accounts, where he shows up by varieties of D(er)uvian(us).

Searching ngram by the most common varieties of Fagan's name and a wildcard gives us "Deruvian" as this guy's most common name, which matches his earliest appearance in William of Malmesbury and matches his treatment in WP:RS like Bartrum, which distinguish him from the namesake of the Merthyr. That's where this should be. — LlywelynII 23:25, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Dynevor family

is not necessarily the English barons. There was a native Welsh dynasty by the name and presumably others named for the place. — LlywelynII 18:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)