Talk:Crisis Negotiators

Music

@Prince of Erebor, i bet you haven't seen the movie. My source is from the end credits. I watched it tonight and encouraged you to watch it too actually. From one Cantonese editor to another. MOS:FILMMUSIC doesn't highlight reliable source like the other sections. I believe there is room for editorial discretion. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 07:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Supermann: Thanks for the recommendation, but of course I have watched the film, or how else do you think I would have been able to write the Synopsis section??

I think the reason the requirement for reliable sources is not being explicitly mentioned in MOS:FILMMUSIC, is because there is a common consensus that all Wikipedia articles should be cited with reliable sources. I know the three pieces you cited were in the film, and one could argue that the usage of soundtracks falls under WP:PLOTSOURCE. However, for the sake of WP:V and WP:NOTTRUTH, my editing practice is to cite sources when writing the Music section (For instance, see The Lyricist Wannabe#Music or 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days#Music). Given that the film has just been released, there are likely to be many new reviews and articles coming out. There is no deadline for editing, so perhaps we can wait a few days to expand the article once there are more reliable sources covering the music used in the film. Cheers! —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 07:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't discover you wrote the synopsis. I appreciate you are willing to offer to wait a few days. There is no need for me to soapbox that journalism is dying every day due to lack of good paying journalism jobs. Apple Daily is now a past tense. If you truly supports a free and democratic Hong Kong, you will get my drift. The way for anyone to verify this addition is to watch the movie that is under-rated by these unappreciative critics out there, such as SCMP's Edmund Lee. If the guy knows how to make a good movie, he wouldn't be just a critic. His review is just a disgrace. I do acknowledge the box office is not looking great for some reason. But the Hong Kong Film Award will give credits when credits are due next year. Speaking of reliable sources, what is a good source for Hong Kong box office from a global perspective so that we don't have to translate from Tianjin Maoyan Weiying Culture Media? Crisis Negotiators (谈判专家) (2024) - Financial Information (the-numbers.com) doesn't give out its source. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 08:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Supermann: I totally understand. That has been the mindset I have had when editing many Hong Kong-related articles in recent years. So many good media outlets shuttered. Apple Daily gone, Stand News gone, Citizen News gone, leaving us only with tabloids and pro-establishment fake news mills. But I do not think we need to dismiss all Hong Kong media sources. Well-established media like Ming Pao and Hong Kong Economic Times still provide detailed and reliable information in non-political fields, including films. For instance, you may take a look at The Lyricist Wannabe#Box office or One Second Champion#Box office. There are news digest following up on the box office every week to a point that I can write a very detailed box office section. I know some zhwiki Wikipedians have the habit of citing Maoyan, just like some enwiki Wikipedians would cite Box Office Mojo (see Mad Fate#Box office). It is not wrong, but I believe that going directly to news media is often preferable.

I also respect your nuanced take on Edmund Lee's film reviews. I agree that he is overly critical at times, but the fact that he writes for the reliable source SCMP means his reviews are notable in film articles. Personally, I actually find Lee to be quite bold and willing to speak the truth sometimes, like his review on We 12 just hits the bullseye. And no matter how devastating journalism of Hong Kong is, there are still a lot of new and smaller media outlets run by passionate journalists, like Initium Media, Hong Kong Inmedia, The Witness, and The Points, that worth us giving credits to. Anyway I digress. I guess we made a consensus here on the Music section, and regarding the box office, personally I think the current Box office section is actually adequate in the meantime, but I do not oppose to citing it in the infobox. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 09:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I do yield and defer to your expertise. I am just hoping against hope that in a few days if not a month, you could consider adding the music back in, at least for the first two songs, given the third song doesn't seem to be notable, despite it accompanies the end credits. I also gave one star to ''We 12,'' but 2.5 for this film shows Lee is absurd. Which film has he ever given 5 stars? If I want to be that kind of mean person, I can totally join SCMP, but I have chosen not to. For the box office, HK local estimates is totally fine with me, though it might lack mainland numbers. But the issue with The Lyricist Wannabe#Box office (if not others) is the number in the infobox doesn't line up with what's in the article's box office subsection which shows the progression of the numbers. Maybe they should be identical to reflect the latest. Just a thought. I haven't seen The Lyricist Wannabe, so I am not in an urge to make updates, unlike this one. Many thanks for your time and understanding. Supermann (talk) 17:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Supermann: I remember Edmund Lee did give Made in Hong Kong a 5/5. A Guilty Conscience, Better Days and Fagara also received 4.5/5 from him if my memory serves correctly. Not a fan of Lee either, but I personally find Phuong Le of The Guardian tends to underrate films more often, like she only gave Time Still Turns the Pages 3/5. (Lee at least gave it a 4/5). Regarding the box office, I am not sure what discrepancy you are referring to in The Lyricist Wannabe. I still have not put the box office numbers in the infobox because the film is still showing in cinemas and the final numbers have not been reported yet. (perhaps you were looking at the budget?) For music, I will see what I can do. If there are reliable sources available about this film's music, I will be sure to add that information to the article right away. No worries there. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 02:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I was mistaken. Look forward to your update then. Good luck hunting for the reliable source that may never be written. Supermann (talk) 05:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Supermann:Right. Thanks for reaching out to me here in the talk page. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 11:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Prince of Erebor Happy Saturday! Could you please take a look at how editors on A Quiet Place: Day One treated the song Feeling Good in the plot summary? No citation. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 04:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

@Prince of Erebor Happy Saturday. I just finished A Quiet Place: Day One and saw how the song Feeling Good was discussed in the plot summary without a citation instead of the music section. Can you accept something like this for this movie? Thanks. Based on end credits, it obviously has several more music and/or songs, but somehow Feeling Good was singled out. source that may never be written. Supermann (talk) 00:08, 29 June 2024

@Supermann: Hi Supermann. I still have not watched A Quiet Place: Day One, but from my interpretation of the article's synopsis, it seems the song Feeling Good is used as diegetic music, so WP:PLOTSOURCE would apply. However, "Goodbye Kiss" is used as a non-diegetic background music and putting it unsourced in the synopsis would be inappropriate. For "Boundless Oceans, Vast Skies", although it was sung by the police officers at a celebratory dinner, it does not seem to be directly relevant to the plot. Expanding the synopsis to something like "That night, they have a celebratory dinner and sang "Boundless Oceans, Vast Skies" together..." feels too trivial and would not help the readers to understand the plot. I would quote The Lyricist Wannabe as an example once again, you can see "Infernal Affairs" was mentioned unsourced in the Synopsis section, while "The OK Thing to Do on Sunday Afternoon Is to Toddle in the Zoo" is cited with source in the Music section for the exact same reason.

I have already found a citable Fairchild Radio podcast that mentions the usage of "BOVS". Originally I was waiting to find another reliable source discussing "Goodbye Kiss" before adding that to the music section. But since I can tell that you feel it is really urgent to get that section established, I guess I will just add "BOVS" to the article first. Let me know if you have any other thoughts. Cheers. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 10:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks. I wouldn't have known Kay Ho or her podcast to be notable enough to be deemed a reliable source. I have no objection. It looks like she now belongs to the diaspora. Her mention of the song is soooo brief in the 47-min podcast that it's hard to pinpoint where she discussed Beyond's song in depth. But I like the title of the podcast. Look forward to the addition of Goodbye Kiss. I need to watch the movie the 2nd time to appreciate where the two songs pop up again. Appreciate the heavy lifting. Supermann (talk) 01:33, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Supermann: No worries, I promised I would look for sources and expand the article if available. The podcast is usable because it is a program of Fairchild Radio, which is a reliable source. I agree it may not be the best source, and I would substitute it with a better one if I can find it. It is also my goal to expand the article to be as comprehensive and informative for readers as possible. Cheers. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 14:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Upon some additional reading and consulting ChatGPT, I don't think the AM1430 you cited is the same AM1430 you think that belongs to Fairchild Radio. The Southern Californian AM1430 belongs to Multicultural Broadcasting per 關於我們 – KMRB AM1430 粵語廣播電臺 and don't serve Canadian audience per se. Neither is on the non-exhaustive Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources - Wikipedia...But anyways, I digress. Could really use your help in finding a reliable source to this film called Hostage (aka Kingdom of Dust) (blueprintreview.co.uk). Many thanks. Supermann (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

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