Talk:Coyote Creek (Santa Clara County)

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What does "Dam Not Installed" mean

"...Standish Dam ... have posed barriers to trout..... Standish Dam has not been installed since 2000".

If it was never installed, how could it ever have physically posed any barrier.

A find-lakes website reports, "Standish Dam is on the Coyote River in Santa Clara County, California and is used for drinking water, among other things. Construction was completed in 1994. At normal levels it has a surface area of 21 acres. It is owned by Santa Clara Valley Water District. Its height is 13 feet with a length of 130 feet. Normal storage is 95 acre feet. It drains an area of 392 square miles." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.183.224.2 (talk) 16:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

It possibly means it was de-installed. Or that it has optional parts that are installed seasonally. Just guessing. Dicklyon (talk) 05:01, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Right, the latter. This doc has details on the seasonal dam. Dicklyon (talk) 05:07, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

I've restored that bit that was removed a few years ago, along with a few clarifying words. Dicklyon (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Overlap

I thought it might be worth noting that there is some overlap here with the article 2017 California floods. Currently, this article contains more information than the linked one does. However, it seems like that should be the other way around. --GentlemanGhost (converse) 22:47, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Feel free to copy material from here to there. Mention in edit summary that you did so. Dicklyon (talk) 03:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Tributaries

I was trying to figure out what I had a photo of. Looks like Thompson Creek; but I made a stub for Miguelita Creek when I thought it was that. Dicklyon (talk) 05:31, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to find info on Miguelita Creek (listed as a tributary) and Silver Creek (sometimes Miguelita is described as its tributary) and Thompson Creek (which one of these creeks seems to become, just south of Raging Waters. Info on maps seems mixed up and incomplete. Are there good sources for such things? Dicklyon (talk) 02:46, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

I found this trails map that clarifies a bit about Thompson Creek and Silver Creek and some others. It looks like the Silver Creek Valley development kind of took our Silver Creek. No sign of Miguelita, though some maps show it where Lower Silver Creek is. Dicklyon (talk) 03:12, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

• Hello again. I think the creeks were re-routed and parts re-connected so much around here that the data is indeed confused. They all exist in USGS GNIS (Geographic Names Information System). I checked the USGS National Map and see it claims the creek around Raging Waters is Thompson Creek. Downstream it flows into Miquelita Creek shortly before they go into Coyote Creek. If I zoom out the label turns into Silver Creek on the lower section of Thompson Creek and Miguelita Creek. It looks like they're now co-routed that used to be separate creeks. The confusion will eventually be settled when the city builds the Lower Silver Creek Trail along that route. Another nearby example of that confusion is Upper Penitencia Creek in San Jose and Lower Penitencia Creek in Milpitas which no longer connect, and separately go into Coyote Creek. Ikluft (talk) 03:25, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

  From what I see on various maps, Thompson Creek starts just on the south edge of Raging Waters, which includes a "Silver Creek picnic area" on the north edge. And at least in 1976 they labeled a bridge there as Silver Creek (see Street View image). Where lower Silver Creek connects to Coyote Creek, Google Maps has it marked Miguelita Creek. I don't know if these creeks are independently notable. How/where do you suggest we describe them? Dicklyon (talk) 04:47, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

  • If you want to add them to Wikipedia, notability can be established with {{cite gnis}}. I don't think it's worthwhile to make 3 separate articles in this case, if that's what you were thinking. Maybe Silver Creek would be the primary article and the other two listed/ref'ed as alternate names in it. Without a notable reference to support any statement about the co-routing, that sounds like it's asking for trouble. Maybe info is out there - I once saw an edit to Reid-Hillview Airport incorrectly claiming it originally started as Alum Rock Airport. Upon researching, I found out there once was an Alum Rock Airport nearby and wrote the article about it with the sources I found. Ikluft (talk) 05:20, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Yeah, the photo (for other readers - it was posted since the previous comment) looks like it's all Thompson Creek since it gets clipped as it goes around Raging Waters. From the angle it looks like it's from an altitude you could have been in an airliner departing SJC on the San Jose Two or Loupe Five departures. Or were you flying yourself? Ikluft (talk) 05:49, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Yes, this is from an Alaska Airlines jet out of SJC (this one), departure to the north with loop back around and right over the airport, whatever you call that. Dicklyon (talk) 07:11, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    I don't think I'd agree that appearance in GNIS should be considered "significant coverage", so I wasn't thinking of making articles without more sources (I didn't think finding sources on Miguelita Creek was going to be a challenge, but I was wrong). Dicklyon (talk) 07:14, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    • GNIS is an independent and reliable government database source verifying the existence of the features. By WP:GEOLAND, not much more is needed to get started. And we already knew about the city trail maps and 2 built/open trail segments, one each for Lower Silver Creek Trail and Thompson Creek Trail. But I'm certainly not going to discourage you from searching for more sources. Anything extra will improve it. Photos of the trails would help with verifiability. Ikluft (talk) 09:04, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

      I agree we have enough for notability for Thompson Creek and Silver Creek, but not that GNIS is enough. WP:GEOLAND says "Named natural features are often notable, provided information beyond statistics and coordinates is known to exist." I'll keep looking for Miguelita. Dicklyon (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

      Based on real-estate ads like this one, Miguelita Creek seems to come down to McKee Rd. at Fairway Drive, where it disappears (into a storm drain I presume). It gets a label there on Google Maps. Not much of a source though. A few books mention it but give little clue. Dicklyon (talk) 17:42, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

      • The big picture is starting to unfold... I found another Miguelita Creek label on Google Maps at its confluence with Coyote Creek across from Watson Park near Hwy 101. I see where Google Maps is getting that data from - both of those labels match the two entries for it in GNIS labeled the mouth and source of the stream: 228641 and 228642 (no description text). Miguelita Creek is the only one of these with 2 GNIS records - and each matches one of the disconnected segments. Add to that the GNIS record for Thompson Creek 236265 where the description says "9 mile long tributary of Silver Creek" and Silver Creek 233129 where the description says "14 mile long tributary of Miguelita Creek". We seem to have the hierarchy now. And we have the other places Google Maps labels these, with an explanation why the labels are there. I see the mouth of Silver Creek is labelled where it looks like a 90 degree turn to the lower section of Miguelita Creek (apparently where it emerges from the storm drain) - that label matches where the city plans to build the Lower Silver Creek Trail. Interesting note: at the lower section of Miguelita Creek where it crosses under Hwy 101, I see a label on Google Maps "Lower Silver Creek" which is not backed by any GNIS entry, and may come from city or county GIS data. I recognize that area which is next to a 1 block street, North Marburg Way, which is between the Berryessa BART tail tracks and the creek, where the BART subway portal will be built. N Marburg Way and the 2 buildings on it will be demolished for the subway portal construction soon. The BART subway portal will have to be sloped enough to be in the tunnel before it reaches Miguelita Creek/Lower Silver Creek - the 800ft they have is enough room. Ikluft (talk) 21:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

        Sounds right. I corrected the article (I think); maybe I'll add the photo there, too. Dicklyon (talk) 00:29, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

        My next shot was of Coyote Creek itself. I tried to add at the left in the watersource section in the article, but it got pushed down by the infobox. I'd appreciate if anyone has a good fix. Dicklyon (talk) 03:52, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

After my toxics dropoff appointment today I pulled over for a creek photo. Checking the map, it seems it's the Lower Silver Creek/Miguelita Creek that we were discussing. So I added a photo calling it both. Hope that's right. Dicklyon (talk) 04:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

I stubbed in some articles on Silver Creek (Santa Clara County, California), Thompson Creek (Santa Clara County, California), etc. Help appreciated. Dicklyon (talk) 03:21, 1 November 2020 (UTC)