Talk:Conchita Badía

Inappropriate edits

I have twice reverted edits by an editor who appears to be related to the subject and/or the makers of the upcoming documentary Conxita Badia no existeix. Their edits completely over-wrote the article with ungrammatical English (in some cases to the point of incomprehensibility) and unencylopedic puffery. They also removed all the inline citations and left a format which does not conform to Wikipedia's Manual of Style. If you wish to contribute more information to the article, please do it carefully and in small increments. Do not simply over-write the existing article with your own version. Any additions you make must respect the formatting and existing references. They must use encyclopedic style and tone without puffery, and they must be referenced with inline citations to reliable published sources. Please do not add ungrammatical English to the article. If you are unsure how to express what you want to say in English, please mention here on the talk page what information you wish to add. I'll be happy to rephrase it in grammatical English and add it to the article as long as you provide references for that information. Voceditenore (talk) 15:47, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

First of all, Talk:Conchita Badía , my great grandmother, should not be in the WikiProject Opera since she never sang opera, she used to be a folk song singer, she should be immediately removed from this project. The whole family participated in the writting of the article. We are translating the missing part, and we are sorry if the English we use is not correct, we will try to improve it. It's not a matter of writting a better English, it's a matter of telling the truth about who she was. I will revert the article as soon as we have the rest of the translation. Thank you. Mireiadb (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:21, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

She did sing in several operas, as you well know, although she was primarily a singer of Spanish art song not folk songs. "Folk songs" in English means something entirely different. And no, she will not be removed from WikiProject Opera. We look after all articles on opera singers as well as singers of classical music including art song, oratorio, and symphonic choral music. WikiProjects are not categories, they are groups of editors who work to maintain, create, and improve articles within their scope, a scope which the projects themselves define. If you actually read the current article, the lede paragraph explicitly states that she was known as a distinguished singer of art song. However, the article also lists two appearances in opera, once when she was very young in Parsifal and later in a revival of María del Carmen. In addition to Parsifal and María del Carmen, your own website lists performances of Pedrell's La Celestina, de Falla's El retablo de Maese Pedro, and Granados's Goyescas.

Also please read my comments to you below concerning copyright policy and your unrealistic expectations concerning what this article will look like. It is also important that you read our guidelines on editing with a conflict of interest. You cannot simply paste in your preferred version which has no references at all, apart from one biography of her, for which you provide no inline citations or page numbers, and remove existing referencing. Nor can you publish her family's personal opinions and what we call here puffery. Voceditenore (talk) 05:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

You're not right. Talk:Conchita Badía WAS NEVER an opera singer. . She did'nt want to be classified as such herself. Please, we are her family, we know it much better. She just sang 1 opera from Granados, "Maria del Carmen". For the rest of works you say, she used to sing 1 area somg, in concert formats. NOT IN OPERA FORMAT. If "folk" is not correct, then we'll look for another word. She was a SOPRANO. If you have a "soprano project", then you can ad her there. But we (the family) won't accept ANY LIE about her life. We'll work on a better text, with citations, and read about the guidelines. Thank you. Mireiadb —Preceding undated comment added 08:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Mireiadb, nowhere in the article does it describe her as an "opera singer". It merely states that she sang in two operas, which is true. You do not understand what WikiProjects are. They are not ways of categorizing the subjects of articles. They are groups of Wikipedia editors who work on and maintain articles related to a particular subject. The banner here on the talk page is merely a link to that project. It is not saying that Conchita Badía is an opera singer. Voceditenore (talk) 10:35, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

I think that the right word we'e looking for instead of "folk" would be "Lied" (from the German word Lied or Lieder, the art songs from the Romantic era. Mireiadb —Preceding undated comment added 09:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Copyright issues

I have just discovered that the material added was a direct (albeit ungrammatical in places) translation from this web page. This is not compliant with Wikipedia's copyright policy. All such additions will be removed immediately. Voceditenore (talk) 16:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Of course it is a direct translation from this web page. We wrote it on purpose to publish it in this webpage (which we owe) in Catalan as well as in other languages, as I told you, since we want to have the same information we prepared on the occasion of the launching of the new documentary "Conxita Badia no existeix" about her life. We have the copyright of both pages, and therefore there should not be any copyright issue. Mireiadb (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:25, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is a problem. English Wikipedia has very strict policy on copyright. If you wish to donate the material, you must first follow the procedures outlined at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials#Granting us permission to copy material already online. Until you do, the material cannot be published here. I also have to tell you that even if you do donate the material, it will be heavily edited to bring it into line with our policies and guidelines on encyclopedic style and formatting, neutral point of view, and verifiability. The end product will not be an exact translation of your website material. Wikipedia is not here to provide free web space for English language publicity material and/or background information for the launching of the film. Your website is the appropriate place for that. I'm sure the biography on your website has much valuable material which can be incorporated into this article, provided it can be referenced to independent sources, and we may be able to use much if it. But but once again, you cannot expect us to publish your version in its entirety with the wording you prefer. It simply isn't going to happen. Voceditenore (talk) 04:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Quotes and assertions requiring referencing

I have removed the following quote about Conchita Badía attributed to Montserrat Caballé:

"She was unique... Unique! All monuments that might be built and devoted to her would be little. And if I serve to leave any mark, the one I have to leave is hers."

First of all there is no reference for this quote. All quotations on the English Wikipedia require an inline citation to the source of the quote, which must have been previously published elsewhere. Secondly, the attempt at English translation was both garbled and unclear. If editors wish to have the quote restored, they must provide the exact source and the quote in the original language (presumably Catalan?) so that it can be translated properly.

I have also removed the following assertion from the lede:

Some european contemporaneous she met, such as Arnold Schönberg or Yehudi Menuhin, praised her for her voice and the way she played the piano. [sic]

There was no reference provided to substantiate it. Furthermore, the lede is meant to be a summary of the article. It is not the place to keep adding more and more praise of the subject. If a reliable published source can be found for the assertion, then it can be incorporated into the body of the article. Voceditenore (talk) 07:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

OF COURSE THERE ARE REFERENCES OF THIS QUOTE! THESE ARE HER OWN WORDS IN THE DOCUMENTARY "CONXITA BADIA NO EXISTEIX". IT'S EVEN IN THE TRAILER: http://conxitabadia.wordpress.com/el-documental/trailer-del-documental/ Mireiadb (talk) 22:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Note: the above is with reference to the Caballé quote. Voceditenore (talk) 07:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

JOAN ALAVEDRA WRITES ABOUT THESE MEETINGS WITH THESE ARTISTS, AND THERE ARE PICTURES OF THEM Mireiadb (talk) 22:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Note: the above is with reference to the Schönberg and Yehudi Menuhin assertion . Voceditenore (talk) 07:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Mireiadb, please read WP:Talk for guidance on how to participate in talk page discussions. First of all, do not interrupt another editor's comments with your own. Place yours at the end of the complete comment. (As you can see, I have moved them.) Secondly, do not use capital letters and bolding in this way. It is considered shouting. Simply make your responses calmly. I will address your points shortly. Voceditenore (talk) 07:08, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

A general note about the two extracts that I have removed for now. All quotes must be referenced with an inline citation to the source of the quote. All claims which are likely to be challenged must also have an inline citation to allow their verification. Simply shouting on the talk page "of course there are references" is not sufficient. Re the Caballé quote, it is appropriate to source it to the documentary, but please provide here on the talk page the exact wording of Caballé's statement in the original Catalan so that it can be translated into correct and coherent English with the original in the footnote. As for the assertion re the praise from Schönberg and Menuhin, please provide the exact page numbers in the Alavedra book which verify this. As I have also remarked, the praise from these figures needs to be in some kind of context and used in the body of the article. When did they meet and/or perform together? Did she perform any of Schönberg's works? Which ones? This is useful encyclopedic information for the article. Simply saying that X praised her, is not.

Also, as I pointed out above, the lede of the article is to summarize its contents, not to glorify the subject. You have a big conflict of interest here. You are not only the subject's great-granddaughter, you are also involved in the documentary film about her life for which you had been trying to use this article as part of the publicity materials. And, you have a lot to learn about the way the English Wikipedia works and the kind of editorial style that is used here. You have to accept that your additions to the article will have to conform to our standards. I'll be happy to incorporate this latest information provided you comply with the referencing requirements, provide context for the Schönberg and Menuhin assertions, and provide the exact wording in Catalan of Caballe's quote. Voceditenore (talk) 07:32, 11 February 2013 (UTC)