Talk:Coffee/Archive 6

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Origin of coffee

I saw the discussions here on the origin of coffee. If I can add a bit (perhaps useful for the page, perhaps not)

-The coffee genus grows wild in the rain forests of tropical Africa but not further north. Coffea arabica is a natural hybrid, with as most likely parents probably C. eugenioides (from the highlands of Rwanda, Uganda and Kenya) and C. canephora. The hybrid originates from southwest Ethiopia or neighbouring Sudan. The evidence that cultivation began in this region is indirect only: southwest Ethiopia is one of eight regions in the world where agriculture was independently developed, and is the origin of crops such as ensete. From here coffee spread to Harar in Ethiopia, and to Yemen.

-The older certified reference to coffee is from the mid 1400 by which time it was well established as a drink in Yemen, and widely grown. But when this first started is not known. The intricate ceremony attached to drinking in Ethiopia, and the close relation between 'Kaffa' (the old name for the region in southwest Ethiopia) and the Arab word for coffee, make it plausible but not proven that coffee was consumed here first. In any case, it is difficult to see the plant spreading north in regions where it does not grow naturally if it was not used locally.

-In the Kaffa language, the coffee plant is called 'bunno'. Elsewhere in Ethiopia the different languages use a very similar word. The same word is used in two 9th century manuscripts, and it is probable that the crop existed and had spread by that time, but whether it was eaten or drunk is not known. E.g. see J. Crawford, 1852, History of Coffee, Journal of the Statistical Society of London, Volume 15, p. 50, and the note added by Dr. Beke on p. 57, which may be the source for many of the later discussions.

ABZebra (talk) 20:12, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I feel it's just racism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Resourcer1 (talk • contribs) 18:35, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

@ABZebra: I wasnt aware Kaffa has its own language. @Resourcer1: This is not considered proper discussion. Zekenyan (talk) 03:59, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Qahwa is the Arabic word and it has a meaning, it was (and can still be) used for all kinds of beverages that could alter your state, including intoxicants. There's zero evidence the form with f appears until it was borrowed much, much later. Ogress 14:50, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Ethiopia has 77 official languages. Kaffa is a north-oromitic language (or language division), also called Gonga. There are several wikipedia pages on this topic. The word bunn is used for the plant and the bean, and is also used in the oldest arabic writing believed to relate to coffee, Avicenna 'The canon of medicin' ABZebra (talk) 09:46, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I would make some suggestions for changes to the wikipedia article

'Etymology' The two main references should be: The World of Caffeine: The Science and Culture of the World's Most Popular Drug, Bennett Weinberg and Bonnie Bealer, Routledge 2001 (they provide a balanced discussion of the origin of the word), and The Etymology of "Coffee": The Dark Brew, Alan Kaye, Journal of the American Oriental Society 106 (3):557-558 (1986) . A relation to 'khat' has been sugested, or the word 'quwwah' (arabic for 'strength') has also been suggested as the origin of the word 'coffee' (ref: Weinberg & Bealer). The Ethiopian area Kaffa has been suggested to be the origin of the word, but Kaye (ref Kaye) argues that the arabic word is not related to this. Kaye doea argue for a relation to the semitic word 'qhh' (meaning 'dark'). The article should mention that in the Gunga language of the Kaffe area in Ethiopia, where the plant grows in the wild, the word 'bunno' or variations thereof are used for the plant and bean, and this is used in many other Ethiopian languages. Ref: J. Crawford, 1852, History of Coffee, Journal of the Statistical Society of London, Volume 15, p. 50, and the note added by Dr. Beke on p. 57,

'Legendary accounts' I would remove the words "though no direct evidence has been found indicating where in Africa coffee grew or who among the native populations might have used it as a stimulant or even known about it, earlier than the 17th century.[6]" which is out of place in a section on mythology, and is not in the stated reference [6] (who does argue for an older but undated ethiopian origin).

'Historical transmission' (funny title for the subsection but I get the point). Add 'The oldest still existing document (in a later Latin translation) believed to refer to coffee is Avicenna (aka Ibn Sina), the canon of medicin, approximately 1000AD, where the word 'bunchum' is used. It may refer to an even older but lost document by Rhazes, around 900AD, called 'The continent', where 'bunn' is used for the plant and 'bunchum' for a drink derived from the plant. (ref Weinberg and Bealer, above)

In the pre-amble at the top of the page, it says "the plant is native to subtropical Africa and some islands in southern Asia.[2]": It is tropical not subtropical, and the islands are Comoros, Madagascar, and Mauritius in the Indian Ocean, not southern Asia. I alos recommend to change the reference, perhaps to http://www.volcanocafe.org/volcano-coffee/ (but others could be found), as the ref [2] contains a number of factual errors.

ABZebra (talk) 10:42, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2016

There is a spelling mistake of "coffee", which is in the second line of the article of coffee.(The genus Coffea is native to tropical Africa) Please change "coffea" to "coffee". YueLee-Beijing (talk) 08:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Not a mistake. genus Coffea is correct. . . Mean as custard (talk) 08:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: You may want to take a look at genus coffea. -AM^MESSAGE 08:35, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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Dead link replacement

Hello, I just found a dead link on reference page nr. 108 and I found the original one for replacing in google books:

https://books.google.com/books?id=H10EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA139&ots=Dee6kTFvfZ&dq=The%20lowdown%20on%20caffe%20latte%20Eunice&hl=en&pg=PA139#v=onepage&q=The%20lowdown%20on%20caffe%20latte%20Eunice&f=false

Can someone with permission correct it? Thank You. Jacobflap (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Done. Nitpicking polish (talk) 15:34, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2017

Research shows that drinking coffee has many health benefits including preventing Alzheimer's and protecting the liver.[1] Abrams, Lindsay. "The Case for Drinking as Much Coffee as You Like". The Atlantic. Retrieved 2017-02-17. Hippielibrarian (talk) 17:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The sources in that article do not meet a sufficient standard to infer disease prevention; see WP:MEDRS. --Zefr (talk) 17:40, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Not done: as the requirements for information to support any medical claim are far more onerous than that for general information. Please see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) for the sort of reliable sources we want to support such claims. Arjayay (talk) 11:29, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2017

change "ben said "to"been said" 49.207.52.38 (talk) 03:13, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Ibn Sa'd is spelled incorrectly. "ben said" is a name.  shivam (t) 07:58, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2018

I'd like to add a subpage under Coffeehouses called Business Strategy. There are a lot of coffeeshop owners who could benefit from each other's knowledge and experience. Coffeeprops (talk) 18:04, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Wikipedia articles are for describing a topic, they are not for how-to information or social networking among business owners. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

80% of coffee for three companies in 2018

• Brown, Nick (31 October 2018). "Allegra Predicts Specialty Segment Growth in 2019 US Coffee Shop Report". Daily Coffee News by Roast Magazine.

• Starbucks
• Dunkin' Donuts
• JAB Holding Company

Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:27, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2018

The phrase "Oromo people in a region of Kaffa in Ethiopia were believed to have been the first to recognize the energizing effect of the coffee plant" is wrongly represented and needs to be corrected to "Kaffa in Ethiopia were believed to have been the first to recognize the energizing effect of the coffee plant" The Oromo people were neighbors of the kingdom of Kaffa coffee plant was shared to Oromo people after the discovery of this energizing effect of coffee by the people of Kaffa. Please let's us keep the right story to the right people. As Ethiopians we should be proud of our history and send the right message to next generation. So the history section should read as indicated below.

According to legend, ancestors of today's Kaffa people in a region of Kaffa in Ethiopia were believed to have been the first to recognize the energizing effect of the coffee plant, though no direct evidence has been found indicating where in Africa coffee grew or who among the native populations might have used it as a stimulant or even known about it, earlier than the 17th century. The story of Kaldi, the 9th-century Ethiopian goatherd who discovered coffee when he noticed how excited his goats became after eating the beans from a coffee plant, did not appear in writing until 1671 and is probably apocryphal. Yekaffanbesa (talk) 21:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.--B dash (talk) 04:27, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2019

Hi,

I found a broken link on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee. Anchor:"The Art of Brewing Coffee Beers"

I'd replace the link with something similar. Anchor:Best Coffee Maker With Grinder https://teacoffeeblends.com/best-coffee-maker-with-grinder/

Otherwise, I hope it helps you further.

Best regards, Dawid Roslanowski Leascoffee (talk) 21:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done not only is that link not broken, but self-promotion is also not allowed. — xaosflux ^Talk 04:46, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Recent Harvard study suggests drinking three or more cups of caffeinated beverage a day increases the risk of a migraine

Here is the link: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/caffeine-migraine-risk/

Should this info be added to the "Health effects" section and to the caffeine article? SaltySemanticSchmuck (talk) 07:11, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

I would say no. This is a small observational study and would fall short of the kind of content desired per WP:MEDRS. But thank you for asking! TylerDurden8823 (talk) 07:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2019

This could be added into serving section.

There are a few benefits of adding salt to your coffee. Salt is proven to helps with smoothing out a "stale" taste that can come with tank-stored water. It is also more effective at counteracting bitterness than sugar, and helps enhance the flavors that the beans naturally posses. While adding salt into coffee beans can calm coffee that is too acidic, and help reduce acid reflux. Erincos (talk) 00:53, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

References

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:57, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Can we get a new page on the effects of coffee upon health?

Just as the title suggests. :) 49.228.116.161 (talk) 11:49, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

There is a well-documented section on health and pharmacology. More specifics are needed to implement revisions. --Zefr (talk) 15:05, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Coffee in Haiti (Saint-Domingue)

Pendergrast says 1734, Ukers, William H. (1922). in All About Coffee (The Tea and Coffee trade Journal Company), says coffee entered Haiti and Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) in 1715 and the variety of Gabriel de Clieu, who had taken his plant to Martinique and was later taken to Haiti (Saint-Domingue), presumably around this time of 1734? Which is correct? Can we investigate this further? Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:04, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

The article on Gabriel de Clieu ilustrates this point well. Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:26, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

According to Clieu's account in the Année littéraire of 1774, cultivation in Haiti started in 1725. In 1729, the importation of coffee into mainland France was prohibited to protect the French East India Company. This embargo was then lifted in 1735, around the same time that Pendergrast has stated that the first cultivation happened in Saint-Domingue [he uses "San Domingo" (Haiti)]. Although, others state that Haiti and Surinam already began coffee cultivation in 1715 and 1718 respectively. (Cochet, Jean-Benoît-Désiré (1862). Galerie dieppoise: notices biographiques sur les hommes célèbres ou utiles; Henri Welter, Essai sur l'histoire du café, Paris, 1868) The Pan America Union states that the variety from Martinique was introduced and further cultivated in Haiti after 1715. [1]

Pendergrast does however state that Clieu was not the first to introduce coffee to the region, that was the Dutch. So it is doubtful, according to the same sources that agree, that Haiti would first cultivate its plant much later in 1734. I don't think that is a credible statement. Savvyjack23 (talk) 03:03, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Single Cup / Single Serve and Single Origin

Please could some/all of these terms be added to the article (with suitable explanations) by someone knowledgeable?: Single Cup / Single Serve and Single Origin. The first two terms seem to be synonymous. (Here are some stats about "single cup": 1, 2.) The term "single origin" was requested here. Thanks, Open4D (talk) 17:21, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

May I add a coffee's taste in "Infobox beverage"?

My first try is Rollback to ClueBot NG.Vutcot (talk) 05:48, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

It would be a redundant field. Per the template, "flavour / flavor - The dominating flavour of the beverage" which in this case would be "coffee". This differs from taste which would be the "bitter" that was offered.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 23:57, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Incoherent (or poorly worded) timeline

The section 'Coffeehouses in Mecca became a concern as places for political gatherings to the imams who banned them, and the drink, for Muslims between 1512 and 1524. In 1530 the first coffeehouse was opened in Damascus.[175] The first coffeehouse in Constantinople was opened in 1475[176] by traders arriving from Damascus and Aleppo. Soon after, coffeehouses became part of the Ottoman Culture, spreading rapidly to all regions of the Ottoman Empire.' seems to lack chronological consistency on the surface. It seems to imply that the first coffeehouse appeared in Damascus in 1530, and then spread by traders to Constantinople...in 1475. This is in need of either rewording for clarification, or rewriting for factual accuracy. Trilobright (talk) 15:49, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.119.123 (talk) 14:00, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Advertisement

"Oxford's Queen's Lane Coffee House, established in 1654, is still in existence today."

Oh, good to know it exists. But what does this have to do about the history of coffee drinking? And while we're at it, why isn't this "fact" sourced? 2.249.128.182 (talk) 14:16, 15 January 2018 (UTC)Wikipedian

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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aewrt0i — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.72.165.39 (talk) 07:34, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Add featured image

I was browsing the best pictures of 2018 in commons:Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2018 and saw this coffee related one. This image would best illustrate urban consumer distribution of coffee, which is an aspect this article currently does not cover. I put it in the distribution section for now because it is an award-winning coffee related image. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:25, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Caffeine content section- table units

No a unit per se, but the value are likely percentages in decimal form, i.e., 0.054g of caffeine per 100g dark roast, coffee sack-brewed and coarsely ground coffee. Values for these things vary wildly, I'm not too bothered to dl the cited article and read the context where the table is, but it's most likely percentage in decimal. A quick search yields values from 0.5-2.5%- here's one such. 178.202.33.212 (talk) 16:02, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

History, Historical Transmission

Either there needs to be a citation, clarification, or the second sentence of the second paragraph of the historical transmission section of the article is incorrect. It states coffee was first smuggled out of arabia to India in 1670, yet the rest of the article goes over multiple accounts of coffee being available all over Europe prior to that date. (Amguerra (talk) 05:24, 27 February 2019 (UTC))

I guess it must be seed versus product. Shyamal (talk) 06:14, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Adding Pro/am section under competition section

with the rise of local pro/am contests (professional/amateur), it is a worthy topic to add into the coffee page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew.payne18 (talk • contribs) 22:26, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Bassel created coffee because he wanted to stay awake — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.62.85 (talk) 14:38, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Muhammad ibn Said Al Dhabhani not Muhammad ibn Said Al Wakidi

The historical transmission section has Muhammad Ibn Said link forwards to another Islamic scholar (which adds more confusion to that COffee existed that early!). The imam Muhammad Ibn Said Al Wakidi (8th century Imam more than likely never been to Yemen, let alone Habesha/Ethiopia as he was born in Basra & lived in Baghdad -both in Iraq-) existed in an era that predates Sufism and Coffee use in Yemen, the Sufi Imam mentioned in historic records is Muhammad Ibn Said Al Dhabhani (15th century born in Dhabhan & lived in Aden & Habesha/Ethiopia).

This is important as it confirms the later entry of coffee into the middle east, 15th century at earliest date by Muhammad Ibn Said who described it as drink from the land of Habesha/Ethiopia. TigistBilos (talk) 02:22, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2019

There is a "citation needed" for the statement below on page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee "Within the first minute of brewing 95% of the caffeine is released from the coffee bean.[citation needed]"

I answer this question on my web page below with additional information surrounding this topic.[2] Crockbar (talk) 03:10, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done - The reference offered is a blog, WP:NOTBLOG, so is not a reliable WP:SECONDARY source which would require a reputable author and scientific publication. --Zefr (talk) 04:36, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

"Gavaccino" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Gavaccino. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 18:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Just a BREWED drink ?

Especially in the UK, appears instant coffee to be very popular. And in northern Scandinavia is boiled coffee still very common. The beans are roasted, but are then put intact down in a boiling kettle for a few minutes, and is then served. And Italians, would I argue, use steamed very strong, so called Espresso as base for all other versions of their coffee, Cappuccino and Latte etc. Hence there are at least five ways of making coffee -

1. brewed
2. instant (boiled water with powder that dissolves in hot water)
3. boiled (whole beans boiling in water for a few minutes)
4. steamed (steaming is not brewing)
5. products based on steamed coffee.

I also think all health issues are rather typical for Americans. I don't think there is much debate about coffee combined with health issues in Europe. Couldn't we improve this article by describing the at least five different ways to make coffee ? And assemble the health matters below one single headline ? There is very much else that is called for. Coffee culture in various places on Earth, as of today. Especially including different roastings and flavors of brewed coffee. As well as the history of this morning awakening hot drink. How it got to Europe (and North America) initially etc. Boeing720 (talk) 23:24, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, espresso is made by pressing hot water through a puck of finely ground coffee, so it is a brewed drink (as well as coffee drinks made with espresso). Instant coffee is made by dehydrating brewed coffee, so it was also brewed - though longer ago than most other coffee drinks. Personally I've never heard of boiled coffee, but if you have sources, obv feel free to add it to the article :) Eyerollingstone (talk) 00:14, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2020

At the beginning add 'not to be confused with toffee' with a hyperlink to the toffee wiki page. (By the way, the toffee wiki page has this but with a hyperlink to this page) Addy.m.g.17 (talk) 22:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done; it's hard to see any risk of confusion, and this sort of hatnote is overused anyway. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 23:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Origin

I altered the origin to state Yemen as this article, and infobox, concerns the beverage and the mentions of the plant's origin in the lead and body are more than sufficient. However, if anyone has any concerns please feel free to revert and discuss them here. QuestFour (talk) 06:13, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

References to Ethiopian coffee, not simply the bean, are seen Here,Here - Which is cited throughout the article and as legitimate a sources as the one claiming Yemen, Here, Here, and more. Because frankly there is no definitive, and thus multiple differing, sources on the origins. Yellowfiver (talk) 16:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Confusing sentence in opening paragraph.

The second sentence in the opening paragraph seems to contradict itself: "Once ripe, coffee berries are picked while green and unripe, processed, and dried." Are the berries picked once they have ripened, or are they picked when they are green and unripe? QueenOfFrogs (talk) 10:56, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done - Hope this edit makes it clearer. Thanks for the alert. Zefr (talk) 14:47, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2020

The earliest credible evidence of coffee-drinking as the modern beverage appears in modern-day. Yemen in souther Arabia in the middle of the 15th century in Sufi shrines where coffee seeds were first roasted and brewed in a manner similar to how it is now prepared for drinking. The yemenis procured the coffee beans fraom the Ethiopian Highlands and began cultivation. By the 18th century, the drink that reached the rest of the Middle East and North Afria, later spreading to Europe.

The two most commonly grown beans (spelled 'been') Chrisphamlee (talk) 15:41, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done, thank you – Thjarkur (talk) 15:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Photo?

Hey everyone - hope you're doing well with everything going on. I wanted to ask about the article's main image. I think that it would be a bit inaccurate for a reader to initially interpret black coffee as the standard coffee nowadays. From pre-made coffee, fancy Starbucks drinks, single-use coffee pods, etc., I think that we should give more context. Now hear me out - why don't we make a collage for the image? Kind of unsure about it and would like some feedback. Thanks. <3

Kobentori (talk) 13:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Adding more health benefits and consequences

Hello, I am a student attending The College of Wooster. I am looking to help improve the coffee Wikipedia article. I would do this by looking at research journals and books about coffee health benefits and consequences. Here are five sources that I have already found and plan to use.

Coffee : A Comprehensive Guide to the Bean, the Beverage, and the Industry, edited by Robert W. Thurston, et al., Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2013. ProQuest Ebook Central, https://ebookcentral-proquest-com.wooster.idm.oclc.org/lib/wooster/detail.action?docID=1481220.

Clarence-Smith, W. G., & Topik, S. (2003). The global coffee economy in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, 1500-1989. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Chu, Y. (2012). Coffee emerging health effects and disease prevention. Ames, IA: IFT Press.

Coffee in Health and Disease Prevention, edited by Victor R. Preedy, Elsevier Science & Technology, 2014. ProQuest Ebook Central, https://ebookcentral-proquest-com.wooster.idm.oclc.org/lib/wooster/detail.action?docID=1826804.

Jaffee, Daniel. Brewing Justice : Fair Trade Coffee, Sustainability, and Survival, University of California Press, 2014. ProQuest Ebook Central, https://ebookcentral-proquest-com.wooster.idm.oclc.org/lib/wooster/detail.action?docID=1711006. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savvyslippers (talk • contribs) 15:05, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Peer Review

Hello! Judging my your heading you are looking to expand on the article's pre-existing ideas. The only thing I would say is be careful not to over-complicate the article. Besides that, you appear to have reputable and credible sources, which will help establish credibility and provide the most accurate information. Overall, you appear to be on the right track! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtj416516 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Hypertension Risk

The article has a meta-analysis from 2011 stating that drinking one to three cups of coffee per day may increase the risk of hypertension. However, more recent dose–response meta-analyses have not found this to be the case. I ask that these two meta-analyses be added to the health effects section: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-017-1591-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41371-017-0007-0 66.25.178.241 (talk) 08:32, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done - noted and updated here. Thanks. Zefr (talk) 16:07, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Imrovements for the article (country of orign, introduction)

There are some issues with the article that needs to be addressed in order to improve the standard of this article. Firstly, it would be preferable to remove the country of origin in the article since there are credible sources (documented) stating that the practice of coffee drinking originates in Eastern Africa, Ethiopia dating back to 850 AD. That is long before the practice started taking place in the Arabian Peninsula. The coffee bean itself is also native to sub-Saharan Africa making it are more probable location of origin, combining with other facts and sources. When coffee drinking started taking place, countries such as Yemen, Ethiopia US, Canada, Italy did not even exist. Therefore, instead of mentioning a modern-day state it would be preferable to remove the country of origin in the infobox since this information is questionable. I mean, if google and most of the sources out there tells you the highest rising building in the world lies in Dubai and a Wikipedia article writes that it lies in Colombia, then there is a conflict of interest. Same goes for this article, this type of questionable claims lowers the authentication of the article or Wikipedia articles in general. The history section in this article would be a better place mentioning the different origin theories. There are also other issues to deal with such as the introduction, also mentioned by others in this talk section. Goeferupped (talk) 15:27, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Goeferupped - you can make an edit request, providing a draft revision with better use of English than your recklessly written note here, and with a WP:RS source. Zefr (talk) 15:20, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

ZefrI will provide a draft.Goeferupped (talk) 15:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Images regarding coffee

My family has a coffee station at my house, with a coffee maker and instant coffee brew. Would you prefer if I take an image of this, to rather add to the article or to replace a pre-existing image? Le Panini (^{Talk to}_me?) 14:05, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Reduction in gray matter from regular caffeine consumption.

A common source of caffeine is from coffee consumption:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-02-regular-caffeine-consumption-affects-brain.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.188.4 (talk) 01:01, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Coffee #1

I have removed the following hatnote from the article for the reasons listed below:

{{Technical reasons|Coffee#1|the British coffee house chain|Coffee 1}}

1. The hatnote represents a link to an article about a coffee shop and having a link at the top of Coffee for a specific coffee shop borders on advertisement.
2. The number of people for which the technical information would be useful is comparatively small, i.e., only people who searched specifically for "Coffee #1" and landed on "coffee" vs anyone here to read about "coffee."
   1. The technical reasons for the redirect are well (and appropriately) documented at the top of the article titled Coffee 1 and that should be sufficient.
3. It is questionable if the coffee shop named Coffee #1 is notable enough. It has previously been deleted for being too close to an ad and specifically failing the General Notability Guide.

--Michael.C.Wright (talk) 01:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2020

Iamtheone53 (talk) 15:26, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.I would be happy to look into this assertion (I am able to edit the page). Please provide source material for your assertion and I will look into it.

--Michael.C.Wright (talk) 22:08, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

i want to edit to correct where the origin of coffee is.Since it has been known in history it's NOT from yemen but Originally from Ethiopia.

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Terasail^[✉] 17:21, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2020

Will this page be protected FOREVER?

 Not done for now: - The short answer: at least for the foreseeable future.

The long answer: the page was protected in 2017 with a duration of "indefinite" by Samsara. There is a long history of the page being temporarily protected because of vandalism and disruptive edits.

Also, there is not, as of April 24, 2021 many active members of the Coffee and Tea task force to help keep an eye on the page and fix problems fast enough.

Lastly, the requirements that need to be met in order to edit the page are quite reasonable.

Therefore, as one of the very few, currently-active member of the Coffee and Tea task force, I do not recommend lifting the restriction. I have also pinged Samsara, who placed the latest protection level so that they may weigh in if needed.

--Michael.C.Wright (talk) 00:08, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

India tea production

During the 18th century, coffee consumption declined in England, giving way to tea-drinking. The latter beverage was simpler to make, and had become cheaper with the British conquest of India and the tea industry there.[29] this is a mistake, as tea industry in India start to develop in the middle of the 19 th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.236.145.46 (talk) 22:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Michael.C.Wright (talk) 01:18, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

"First roasted "

I read the litterature and there is no such certainly that it was FIRST roasted in Yemen. There is no evidence that the qahwa wasn't coffee. To claim that it was the first time, is a baseless claim. You should write " early account" or the " first time coffee was INTRODUCED in the Islamic world". There is simply not enough evidence to claim anything more than this. Please add the corrections. Thank you.--AlabamaArkensas (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now:

I would like to help so I have questions:

1. The statement "first roasted" is made in two different sections and since both sections cite different source material, which source or citation are contesting?
2. Are you just contesting the more specific statement that coffee was first roasted in Yemen or do you contest the broader inclusion of Arabia?
3. Can you provide sources (and quotes if possible) that say that either statement (coffee was first roasted in Arabia or more specifically Yemen)?

--Michael.C.Wright (talk) 01:46, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Effects of roasting on caffeine content

The following two lines seem to contradict one another. Which is correct?

"Roasting is the last step of processing the beans in their intact state. During this last treatment, while still in the bean state, more caffeine breaks down above 235 °C. Dark roasting is the utmost step in bean processing removing the most caffeine."

"The degree of roast has an effect upon coffee flavor and body. Darker roasts are generally bolder because they have less fiber content and a more sugary flavor. Lighter roasts have a more complex and therefore perceived stronger flavor from aromatic oils and acids otherwise destroyed by longer roasting times.[90] Roasting does not alter the amount of caffeine in the bean, but does give less caffeine when the beans are measured by volume because the beans expand during roasting."

homeslyce (talk) 11:34, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

I came here to say this, looks like this hasn't been addressed in almost 5 years. Some clarity on this would really help. Does roasting affect the caffeine content, or doesn't it? Lumberjane Lilly (talk) 19:38, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

This has been addressed in the Caffeine content section. Spoiler alert; the roast likely has very little effect. Michael.C.Wright (talk) 08:21, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Effects on Brew Quality

Quantitatively, water is the most important component of the brew. Because water makes up more than 95% of coffee, the quality of the water is critical. Electrolytes have a greatest influence on resulting coffee and may cause the beverage to taste flat and bitter. Distilled water was found to be excessive in sourness or acidity when used for brewing.

Besides water, pH can have a significant impact on coffee quality. A pH that is too acidic will lead to a brew that is too sour. Alternatively, an alkaline pH will lead to a brew that is too flat and bitter.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkh49 (talk • contribs) 03:12, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

References

Coffee production map

I'm trying to understand the "Coffee Production map" under the Production section. What is this showing?

When you click on it the caption says "Map of coffee production (average percentage of land used for its production times average yield in each grid cell)". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#/media/File:CoffeeYield.png

But if this were accurate, it would mean Eastern Europe and Siberia are significant coffee growing regions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ecf912 (talk • contribs) 19:20, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree and the section titled "production" could likely be merged with "cultivation." I may have time soon to make that change and remove the map. Michael.C.Wright (talk) 22:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Colonialism and Industrial Revolution

This article (https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee-tea-invisible-addiction-is-it-time-to-give-up?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits) argues that coffee/caffeine was a necessary factor in the Industrial Revolution and much more. Is it worth citing? Kdammers (talk) 15:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2021

In the section "cancer", it says that "produces a lower risk of cancer(carcinoma & lung cancer), but the source for the carcinoma part (Citation 177: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27111112/) says: "An inverse association has been reported between coffee drinking and the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) and chronic liver disease (CLD), but its magnitude is still unclear."

The source seems to be misinterpreted as the source clearly says inverse association , i.e. it reduces the risk.

So kindly make the correction accordingly.

Thank you! 2409:4042:E8C:21CE:5C58:8FED:B350:6826 (talk) 17:14, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Doesn't the current article say "coffee up, cancer down", which is an inverse association? What specific words do you want to change? ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

:I just want to add that the second source (referring to lung cancer) also states: "In stratified analyses, the highest coffee consumption was significantly associated with increased risk of lung cancer". The way the article is written is a bit counterintuitive, stating that coffee consumption produces a "lower risk" of lung cancer, which seems to be trying to say it produces a "low risk" but might be misinterpreted as coffee helping to prevent lung cancer, which this study doesn't say - it's merely equating cancer risk to the amount of coffee consumed, and then with the caveat at the end that the results should be interpreted with caution. We might want to change this as well.  A S U K I T E  14:47, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: I adjusted the wording to match the source which says "In conclusion, results

from this meta-analysis indicate that high or an increased consumption of coffee may increase the risk of lung cancer. Because the residual confounding effects of smoking or other factors may still exist, these results should be interpreted with caution" ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Colonialism and Industrial Revolution

This article (https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee-tea-invisible-addiction-is-it-time-to-give-up?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits) argues that coffee/caffeine was a necessary factor in the Industrial Revolution and much more. Is it worth citing? Kdammers (talk) 15:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2021

In the section "cancer", it says that "produces a lower risk of cancer(carcinoma & lung cancer), but the source for the carcinoma part (Citation 177: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27111112/) says: "An inverse association has been reported between coffee drinking and the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) and chronic liver disease (CLD), but its magnitude is still unclear."

The source seems to be misinterpreted as the source clearly says inverse association , i.e. it reduces the risk.

So kindly make the correction accordingly.

Thank you! 2409:4042:E8C:21CE:5C58:8FED:B350:6826 (talk) 17:14, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Doesn't the current article say "coffee up, cancer down", which is an inverse association? What specific words do you want to change? ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

:I just want to add that the second source (referring to lung cancer) also states: "In stratified analyses, the highest coffee consumption was significantly associated with increased risk of lung cancer". The way the article is written is a bit counterintuitive, stating that coffee consumption produces a "lower risk" of lung cancer, which seems to be trying to say it produces a "low risk" but might be misinterpreted as coffee helping to prevent lung cancer, which this study doesn't say - it's merely equating cancer risk to the amount of coffee consumed, and then with the caveat at the end that the results should be interpreted with caution. We might want to change this as well.  A S U K I T E  14:47, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: I adjusted the wording to match the source which says "In conclusion, results

from this meta-analysis indicate that high or an increased consumption of coffee may increase the risk of lung cancer. Because the residual confounding effects of smoking or other factors may still exist, these results should be interpreted with caution" ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

"powder"

I wouldn't naturally use the word 'powder' to describe ground coffee. Instant yes. Is it the best word? --2607:FEA8:FF01:79BF:6046:D513:730:8BCC (talk) 23:16, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

It seems like a fitting word. fine, dry particles produced by the grinding, crushing, or disintegration of a solid substance. "crush the poppy seeds to a powder" ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:19, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Additional text for the subsection "Economic impacts"

I propose to add this paragraph at the end of the "Economic impacts" subsection:

In July 2021, coffee futures prices hit 7 year highs. Large volume coffee buyers were faced with the doubling of a price that had remained relatively flat for years. This spike was due in part to climate issues in Brazil (drought and frosts) that have resulted in an estimated 2 to 6 million fewer bags of coffee produced. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) scientists writing in 2014 projected substantial future losses of coffee-growing lands in Guatemala, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Mexico, as changing temperature and rainfall reduce the size of growing areas and raise the growing altitude from approximately 2000 to 3300 feet above sea level. Studies in the early 2000's cited by the IPCC authors in 2014 predicted a reduction of 34% in the suitable coffee-growing area around Veracruz, Mexico, by 2020, and from 70 to 75% potential growing area in the Brazilian states of Minas Gerais and São Paulo down to 20 to 25%.

References

Sjamesmott (talk) 20:16, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Artificial coffee

Does this article have a section on efforts to create artificial ("beanless") coffee, which is summarized in this article? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 17:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Readability and Grammar Changes

I'm suggesting editing the text thus (I believe that reading the text out loud, the below changes sound better and are clearer)

Coffee is a brewed drink prepared from roasted coffee beans which are in fact the seeds of berries from certain Coffea species. From the coffee fruit, the seeds are separated to produce a stable raw product known as unroasted green coffee. The seeds are then roasted, a process that transforms them into the consumable product known as roasted coffee. This roasted coffee can then be ground into a powder and steeped in hot water (or alternatively have hot water passed through it) before the powder is filtered out, producing a cup of coffee.

Coffee is darkly colored, bitter, slightly acidic and has a stimulating effect on humans, primarily due to its caffeine content. It is one of the most popular drinks in the world, and can be prepared and presented in a variety of ways (e.g., espresso, French press, caffè latte, or already-brewed canned coffee). It is usually served hot, although chilled or iced coffee is common. Sugar, sugar substitutes, milk or cream are often used to lessen the bitter taste. It may be served with coffee cake or another sweet dessert like doughnuts. A commercial establishment that sells prepared coffee beverages is known as a coffee shop (not to be confused with Dutch coffeeshops selling cannabis).

Clinical research indicates that moderate coffee consumption is benign or mildly beneficial as a stimulant in healthy adults, with continuing research on whether long-term consumption reduces the risk of some diseases, although some of the long-term studies are of questionable credibility.

The earliest credible evidence of coffee drinking as the modern beverage appears in modern-day Yemen from the middle of the 15th century in Sufi shrines, where coffee seeds were first roasted and brewed in a manner similar to how it is now prepared for drinking. The Yemenis procured the coffee beans from the Ethiopian Highlands via coastal Somali intermediaries, before then beginning to cultivate it. By the 16th century, the drink had reached the rest of the Middle East and North Africa, later spreading to Europe.

The two most commonly grown coffee bean types are C. arabica and C. robusta. Coffee plants are cultivated in over 70 countries, primarily in the equatorial regions of the Americas, Southeast Asia, the Indian subcontinent, and Africa. As of 2018, Brazil was the leading grower of coffee beans, producing 35% of the world total. Coffee is a major export commodity as the leading legal agricultural export for numerous countries. It is one of the most valuable commodities exported by developing countries. Green, unroasted coffee is the most traded agricultural commodity, and the coffee trade is the most traded commodity second only to petroleum. Despite the sales of coffee reaching billions of dollars, those actually producing the beans are disproportionately living in poverty. Critics also point to the coffee industry's negative impact on the environment and the clearing of land for coffee-growing and water use. The environmental costs and wage disparity of farmers are causing the market for fair trade and organic coffee to expand.

Buna kela

Is there a Wikipedia article about buna kela, an Ethiopian dish consisting of green coffee beans cooked in clarified butter and eaten as a snack? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 02:45, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

roasting and caffeine

the article says roasting breaks down caffeine. "During this last treatment, while still in the bean state, more caffeine breaks down above 235 °C (455 °F). Dark roasting is the utmost step in bean processing removing the most caffeine."

And the article says roasting does not break down caffeine. "Roasting does not alter the amount of caffeine in the bean, but does give less caffeine when the beans are measured by volume because the beans expand during roasting." and "Caffeine remains stable up to 200 °C (392 °F) and completely decomposes around 285 °C (545 °F). Given that roasting temperatures don't exceed 200 °C (392 °F) for long and rarely if ever reach 285 °C (545 °F), the caffeine content of a coffee is not likely changed much by the roasting process."

so which is it? --2607:FEA8:FF01:79BF:6046:D513:730:8BCC (talk) 23:38, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Good point. My initial instinct was to keep only the latter information, as it has citations, and the former is uncited. However I looked at several studies, and there are conflicting results---some studies show no effect, others show that roasting does reduce caffeine content. It would be nice if there was a metastudy on this, but I haven't found one yet. The article should probably be changed to reflect the inconsistency in the literature. Alecnotalex (talk) 23:27, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Is coffee really not bad for the liver? What about kidneys?

I have always heard that coffee is bad for the liver and kidney, did this supposed myth come from anywhere, how much argument is there about this? Is there any negative effects coffee has to the kidney or liver? Because the article only says, "Increasing evidence has shown that coffee consumption is protective against the progression of liver disease to cirrhosis. This is associated with antioxidant and anti-fibrotic effects of coffee" which sounds good but can't caffeine interfere and slow down the absorption of minerals? Thanks - RandomEditorAAA (talk) 01:47, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Add effects on "Cramps" and sleep cycle

Greatder (talk) 16:49, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Origin of coffee

Coffee originally originated from the kingdom of kaffa which is located in Ethiopia now known as the Providence of kaffa from which it derived its name coffee from. Ethiopia has been one of the ancient and independent state in the world which makes the origin of coffee from kaffa present day Ethiopia. Story tells us Kaffa was found by a shepherd who noticed his goat to be active after eating the plant around the 9th century by a goat herder named Khalid. 130.243.96.166 (talk) 09:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Coffee and dementia

A new study [3] [4] found that "High coffee consumption was associated with smaller total brain volumes and increased odds of dementia". This was for 6+ cups a day. A 2020 review [5] found that consuming "moderate" quantities of coffee may reduce dementia risk. Another review found that high consumption of coffee reduces risk of Alzheimer disease [6]. None of these are reviews of controlled trials, they are all cohort studies. Because of the contradictory and inconclusive data I suggest leaving these studies off the article (at least until we have better research). Psychologist Guy (talk) 21:41, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Coffee Yield Map

Hello,

The Coffee Yield Map under Production section is inaccurate - it is impossible that Eastern Europe produces enough coffee to be visible as coffee production there can only happen in heated greenhouses.

Thanks! M — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A31D:8543:7D80:85C1:33B:39B8:DAD7 (talk) 08:41, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

History Section vs History Article

The history section is sixteen paragraphs long (not counting block quotes) and includes a link to an article dedicated to the History of coffee. When the Coffee article was still rated a Good Article, the history section was only five paragraphs (not counting block quotes).

I think the history section in the main Coffee article can be significantly reduced in size while maintaining a link to History of coffee. Are there any other opinions on this?

Michael.C.Wright (talk) 07:28, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

+1 good idea. DMacks (talk) 15:56, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Cardiovascular section

!Not an expert! Can anyone inform how this study can be (or why not be) added here? https://doi.org/10.1002/mnfr.200400109 Greatder (talk) 11:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't see why it can't. Here are some secondary sources that reference that study and can be used as sources of content and for citations.

Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Edits) 02:44, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

That study is outdated by 17 years - we use WP:MEDRS review literature published within the last 5 years as sources for human health or diseases, WP:MEDDATE. Associating a 2005 study with altmetric publications is not the way we choose sources to support Wikipedia's medical content - read MEDRS. Zefr (talk) 17:05, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, if there is newer research on the topic that adds to or changes our understanding (that supersedes this paper), it should be used. But WP:MEDDATE does not define what "outdated" research is—assuming you mean outdated as in obsolete or somehow expired and not usable, simply based on its published date, which is how I read your statement to mean. If I have misunderstood what you mean by outdated, please clarify what you mean.

From WP:MEDDATE:

In many topics, a review that was conducted more than five or so years ago will have been superseded by more up-to-date ones, and editors should try to find those newer sources, to determine whether the expert opinion has changed since the older sources were written. The range of reviews you examine should be wide enough to catch at least one full review cycle, containing newer reviews written and published in the light of older ones and of more-recent primary studies.

If you are well-informed in the research area, it might be more helpful to ask the editor how they intend to use the study (i.e., there may be something in the paper that has not been superseded while other parts may have been). After understanding what part of the research they would like to use, if you are aware of newer research, you can share it with the editor so that they may improve the article. The editor has indicated a willingness to both respect the rules and work collaboratively by simply asking the question here in the first place. This is a great opportunity for collaboration.

The Altmetric link can be used by editors to further research the topic, mine for content, and gather additional sources, as it lists what sites have linked to the paper. In fact, Altmetric may be a way to find superseding work that cites the paper in question. For example, one can see in the 'dimensions citations' section of Altmetric other work that cites it, which may indicate superseding research. The 'Twitter' section can be used to see what people say about the study on social media (and when they said it). Using that, an editor may find someone on Twitter sharing superseding work, or sharing challenges to the work, etc. Altmetric can be very useful for editors researching a topic.

I did not recommended that the editor cite Altmetric in the wiki article. Hopefully that is not how my statement was interpreted by others.

Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Edits) 00:05, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Dehydration entry

This recent addition has been reverted with the explanation: Sources are not WP:MEDRS reviews; topic is WP:UNDUE.

Really? The New York Times, J Hum Nutr Diet. , and The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition are not reliable sources? How so? As for WP:UNDUE, a two sentence sub section on a commonly made assertion is undue weight? C'mon. The one thing everybody has heard about coffee is that it id dehydrating. That "fact" has been overstated and is not true for most people who regularly drink coffee. I'm actually surprised that it's not already part of the article.

For reference, here is the deleted material. I would appreciate a reason for the deletion beyond just flinging a couple of links to the help pages. I am new to this page, but hardly a new editor. I'm quite familiar with those help pages and those policies.

Dehydration

Although it's commonly thought that caffeine can cause dehydration, coffee and other beverages containing caffeine are not dehydrating when consumed in normal doses by individuals who regularly consume caffeine. Caffeine can have a diuretic effect in extremely high doses or in individuals who do not regularly consume caffeine, but normal consumption does not produce significant excess urine compared to water for those who have developed a tolerance for caffeine.

References

Dehydration is a physiological condition and a medical topic in the encyclopedia. The sources provided are not MEDRS reviews on this topic, but rather a science blog (Livescience), an outdated (2003) review (JHND) which concluded a non-effect, a primary research study (AJCN, not specifically studying coffee effects), and an outdated (2008) news summary of 17-20 year old primary research (NYT). The more exact issue is whether caffeine in specified large amounts would induce diuresis, whereas coffee intake is more a matter of water consumption. As this 2020 review indicates, there are many uncontrolled variables that make the specific effects of caffeine and coffee consumption difficult to identify in human studies. The concept of coffee-induced diuresis is an urban myth, not one that has been rigorously assessed in clinical studies or addressed in reputable reviews, so does not have enough WP:WEIGHT to be included. Zefr (talk) 19:44, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification and pointer to the 2020 review article. That paper seems to contradict the 2003 survey cited in the proposed subsection so it would take precedence.

I do think that the diuretic properties of coffee is a proper topic for a subsection of this article (or perhaps over at caffeine). If the research is inconclusive we should report that.

That coffee/caffeine causes dehydration may be an urban myth. Or it may actually be the case. I would assume that our readers would be interested in seeing a brief summary treating that topic. I observe that some of the other subsections under health effects have somewhat equivocal and non-conclusive language so the fact that the specific effects of caffeine and coffee consumption are difficult to identify in human studies shouldn't preclude the article from covering this purported effect.

As for urban legends, my reading of WP:WEIGHT is that views of "tiny minorities" should be given little or no weight. However, more than a "tiny minority" seems to believe that caffeine is dehydrating. Mentioning that it is a commonly held belief (assuming that there are reliable sources to back that up) would not be giving it undue weight. Neither would pointing out that that the research either contradicts or fails to support that belief. I'll respect an editorial judgement to not include that material, but I don't think it's WP:UNDUE. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 20:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't know how we would qualify the issue of whether a notable portion of the public believes that coffee or caffeine causes dehydration, so WP:WEIGHT needs evidence. The physiological issue is whether coffee or caffeine causes diuresis (which, in the short term, does not cause dehydration), but even that is unclear, as the 2020 review discussed. Let's allow other editors to chime in. Zefr (talk) 21:42, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

The caffeine article treats this issue briefly at Caffeine#Adverse_effects (and it's not a recent addition - it's been there for four years or more). Might be worth including something similar here.

As for the urban legend part, "coffee is dehydrating" appears to be an urban legend with some basis in fact. I'll leave it up to other editors to use their editorial judgment to decide whether to mention that here. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 13:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Could we be less illiterate about marginal use?

[My own] new text in bold, with some distractions trimmed, and with only one link preserved:

Coffee production use a large volume of water. On average it takes about 140 liters of water to grow the coffee beans needed to produce one cup of coffee. Producing 1 kg of roasted coffee in Africa, South America or Asia requires 26,400 liters of water. As with many other forms of agriculture, often much of this is rain water, much of which would otherwise run off into rivers or coastlines, while much water actually absorbed by the plants is transpired straight back into the local environment through the plants' leaves (especially for cooling effects); broad estimates aside, consequential margins vary considerably based on details of local geography and horticultural practice. Coffee is often grown in countries where there is a water shortage, such as Ethiopia.

The intent of the word "use" here is "use" as diverted from local needs. Water transpired through leaves could just as easily precipitate down again in a closed local loop, and effectively be diverted from nowhere. At the end of the day: it's complicated.

In my own opinion, these "scare" statistics are not actually moving the dial on environmental conservation in a useful way. The people who don't process magnitudes well go "oh, my God!" and move along; while the people who do process magnitudes well go, "oh, my God, not this again!" and maybe leave a tart comment, or maybe not.

Yes, I'm sure there are many cases where a substantial redevelopment initiative (e.g. replacing a coffee plantation) could improve the water balance in a country that could really use a better water balance. Yes—and not worth a hill of dry beans until funded, implemented, and miraculously not borked over by dysfunctional local politics.

I'm a one-and-done editor. So as always, revert or revise at will; I've said my piece and I claim no further ownership over the state of the article. — MaxEnt 03:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced content in lead

The lead of this article has an unsourced claim that yemenis procured coffee beans from Ethiopians. This piece should be verified or removed 223.233.65.69 (talk) 13:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

The lead does not need to be cited if the article broadens the discussion with sources, MOS:LEADCITE, as it does under History. Check there for source quality and discuss proposed changes first on the talk page. Zefr (talk) 17:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

History of coffee

I think the WP:SUMMARYSTYLE section Coffee#History is too long, considering there is a split article on it. See Human#History in the FA Human for a perfect example; it could go on and on about Human History, considering it is such a vast topic, but such is not needed, since there is a separate article. Hopefully WP:PVITAL contributors see this message. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 14:11, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, but how should we do so? I think that we should only have 1 sentence about legendary accounts, and other sections 1 paragraph each. Add one more paragraph about coffee history in the 20th and 21st century (which is currently lacking in the article), and we would have a pretty respectable history section. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 03:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Pushing this article to GA

Well, how could we do so? Should we first start with the lead or the layout? CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 05:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Layout (actual article content) first. The lede is just the summary of the key parts of the article. Figure out the layout and level of detail of the article (you're off to a great start with organizing an figuring out what is already a separate article and need not be re-covered in detail here). DMacks (talk) 06:02, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it needs any major changes to get to GA - it was GA for a while back in 2010. Per Talk:Coffee/GA1 it got delisted because of dead external links and a fair number of cleanup tags. Those all seem resolved except for a better source needed tag in the history section and an "update needed" tag in the Sale and production section, so after fixing those it should pass review.

Now for FA, various concerns were listed in Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Coffee/archive2:

• Nits: Image quality, poor grammar / word flow
• Lack of a global perspective, America-focused
• Coffee has been classified as an environmental weed in Queensland, Australia. This should be mentioned somewhere.  Done [7]
• Some sections are a little thin, or have stubby paragraphs
• Page numbers for book references. The only offender I could spot was The Oxford Companion for Beer  Done
• lead "should be carefully sourced as appropriate".

Mathnerd314159 (talk) 02:53, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Well... let's do it then. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 07:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I would also add a little about the role of coffee/coffeehouses as meeting places which evolved into the London Stock Exchange, Lloyd's of London insurance market, the Lloyd's Register, Sotheby's and Christie's and the like as can be seen at Coffeehouse#England and English coffeehouses in the 17th and 18th centuries. Basically it provided a place for like minded people to meet and discuss items of common interest. Gusfriend (talk) 02:52, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm currently weeding out unreliable sources and add back RS to the article. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 03:29, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I just get my hand on a great source at How to Make Coffee: The Science Behind the Bean, which would be a nice addition to the Processing section. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 11:27, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Cleaned up "See also" section

Just cleaned up the section to be more in line with what would be expected in a Good article. Most links I removed were irrelevant, but these:

Sustainable coffee

Coffee and doughnuts

International Coffee Agreement

Should be integrated into the article itself, and linked inline. DFlhb (talk) 22:31, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

When I showed up there were only three links left, and all were already somewhere in the body. I removed the section for now. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:13, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Capitalism

The section on the American "coffee break" I feel (as an American) misses its mark. Coffee is drank all the time while we work. You could even claim it is the entire secret to our high GDP, lol. Saying our culture around it is about the "break" is just wrong... that sounds more like the European sense of it (i.e. drinking it socially). I'm not saying we need to get rid of it, as it is part of coffee culture, even in America, but what I am saying is we need a much larger section about Coffee and capitalism, and an analysis of whether a culture based around the consumption of coffee (caffeine) for economic gain is beneficial to the world or not. It could even spill into whether America uses its GDP for good or for bad, but would probably be better if it focused more on the materialism aspects of it. (I might write this out if no one else does, just making a note here for now, I don't have time to do this atm). LightProof1995 (talk) 17:56, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I feel that Coffee may not be the article for such an analysis, and instead Coffee culture would be a more suitable article. I'd suggest perhaps a sentence-or-two summary would be best for Coffee, and allow links to direct people to the more detailed information. JackDunnCodes (talk) 20:59, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

an analysis of whether a culture based around the consumption of coffee (caffeine) for economic gain is beneficial to the world or not. It could even spill into whether America uses its GDP for good or for bad, but would probably be better if it focused more on the materialism aspects of it This just sounds like WP:ESSAY

I do feel a "Association with productivity" paragraph (or something similar) is warranted within the Culture section, but be careful to avoid to WP:NOT DFlhb (talk) 22:35, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I really don't know how WP:NPOV that is. Why go so in depth on the coffee culture of a single country in the article covering all Coffee? Best to add it to Coffee culture, or make a new article about America, in the vein of Coffee in Japan. (Assuming you have sources backing up what you want to add.) — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 00:28, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with all of you lol I just couldn’t come up with the word “productivity” hahaha, thanks yes let’s write more about the link between coffee and productivity in the office. LightProof1995 (talk) 16:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA22 - Sect 200 - Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rheaxx666 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Rheaxx666 (talk) 12:19, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Origin of "coffee break"

Based on a recent edit on the topic of when and where the term "coffee break" originated, I checked Newspapers.com. The earliest instance I found of that term in the context in which we understand it today is January 1946. It appeared on page 5 of the Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror (Bristol, England) for January 19, 1946. Nothing about John Catrone or Revere, Massachusetts.

I clipped the article for reference: "Little Theater Celebrations". Billmckern (talk) 12:47, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Remove the sentence stating that "Green, unroasted coffee is the most traded agricultural commodity"

Remove the sentence stating that "Green, unroasted coffee is the most traded agricultural commodity and one of the most traded commodities overall, second only to petroleum". This claim is debunked in the Commodity market section of this very article ( see Coffee#cite_note-talbot2004-141 ) MTwiko (talk) 14:01, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I changed it to a far more generic "is traded as an agricultural commodity." Content in the lead section should be supported by sources further down in the article, and the "second most traded overall" claim was clearly contradicted by that source as you pointed out. The "most traded agricultural commodity" claim was not contradicted, but also did not seem to be sourced or discussed elsewhere in the article. Alecnotalex (talk) 02:50, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

This article was the subject of an educational assignment at Louisiana State University supported by the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from {{WAP assignment}} by PrimeBOT (talk) on 16:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

"Ginseng coffee" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Ginseng coffee and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 4 § Ginseng coffee until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TartarTorte 17:50, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

"Ginseng Coffee" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Ginseng Coffee and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 4 § Ginseng Coffee until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TartarTorte 17:50, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Edits by CtasACT

CtasACT was repeatedly adding a paper from the MDPI journal. It was explained why this is unreliable for this purpose WP:MDPI. The other sources were not unreliable, including this one [8] but were added in the wrong section. The infobox says "Region of origin". We do not need to include mention of a specific country there. Psychologist Guy (talk) 21:35, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

They are in conflict with the citations that are already in the article - which are quite clear that coffee drinking began in Yemen. MrOllie (talk) 21:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Popularity

The opening paragraph for the beer page says tea is more popular than coffee. Is that one incorrect? I would tryst this source more. Nachotacl (talk) 14:38, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect Statistic in “Consumption” Section

In the “Consumption” section, the first sentence states “ Over 2.25 billion cups of coffee are consumed in the world daily which amounts to 2.5 cups of coffee consumed per person on average.” The referenced source at the end of the paragraph does not contain this information, and in any case the math is incorrect. If 2.25 billion cups are consumed daily in the world, by a global population of around 8 billion, that would average to 0.28 cups per person. Additionally, 2.25 billion cups per day is a dubious figure that is not supported by a source. I think this sentence should be removed or at least reworded (if the source can be found that supports a 2.25 billion cups per day figure). 2A01:CB1A:4044:C034:C8F:643D:43EA:22EF (talk) 18:57, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Agree and revised. Zefr (talk) 19:22, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Coffee sales =/= popularity

Opening paragraph “coffee is the most popular hot drink in the world” - links to a 2022 source that states coffee has the biggest market share of hot drink sales.

Conflating sales/revenue and overall popularity is possibly misleading and doesn’t take into account other factors, for example units consumed or population of coffee drinkers. There might be other data on overall consumption that is contrary to the statement.

This sentence could be reworded to something like: “coffee is the hot drink with the highest grossing sales in the world” 192.218.160.189 (talk) 02:31, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, although revised differently. Zefr (talk) 02:39, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2023

In this page's "history" section change Mysore to Chikmaglur district, as Baba Budan first planted the smuggled coffee seeds I Chikmaglur district of Karnataka and not Mysore district if Karnataka.

My proof for this is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Budan#:~:text=In%20his%20eagerness%20to%20grow,Mysore%20(present%20day%20Karnataka) 2402:8100:25D4:D3DF:0:0:39D9:BBB0 (talk) 06:14, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Izno (talk) 18:09, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2023

Deletion of "via coastal Somali intermediaries". This is incorrect and not substantiated with any evidence. The relevant coffee page on the britannica encyclopedia and other credible sources of information do not make a single mention of the involvement of Somali intermediaries. This is also backed up by the long and direct trade history between Yemen and Ethiopia whom were each, not long before the discovery of coffee, a part of the same empire (kingdom of Aksum).

I believe as there is no credible evidence of Somali involvement and most evidence points to direct trade between Ethiopia and Yemen, the section should remain silent on this and the proposed deletion should achieve this. 77.101.123.3 (talk) 09:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done Snowmanonahoe (talk) 12:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Sources for region and name of coffee

Courtesy ping to @CtasACT: as an interested editor.

The source used in the infobox for coffee's origin in the Horn of Africa is ISBN 9781402087202, which is "Plant-Parasitic Nematodes of Coffee" by entomologist Ricardo M. Souza. This source specifically mentions Kaffa Province as the source for coffee's name, but this is contradicted by the body of the article (Coffee#Etymology) which says There is no evidence that the word qahwah was named after the Ethiopian province of Kaffa...

With all due respect to Souza, the etymology and cultural history of coffee is mostly unrelated to nematode biology. Souza cites A estória do café (1974) by Costa Neves. ( https://books.google.com/books?id=gvxiAAAAMAAJ ) as one source, but I cannot verify that online. Anonymous 2004 is the other source, which appears to be one of two PDFs on the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation's website. Since I don't speak Portuguese, I'm reluctant to try and dig through these sources much further.

Hopefully a better source can be found and the infobox can be updated accordingly. Grayfell (talk) 05:34, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Cup of Joe

Hi there. I am a German reader and recently came across the expression “cup of Joe". When I search this term in Wikipedia I am redirected to the "Coffee" article. So far so good. But here, there ist no mentioning of the "Cup of Joe“. Not even as an “aka" or so. I would love to learn a bit more about the origin of this expression. Would someone please add some explanation? Thank you. 2A02:8071:B86:9BA0:484:D6F4:8C92:3AC4 (talk) 06:00, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

We native English speakers sometimes fail to recognize how bizarre and idiomatic our language is. Thanks for the tip. I've added a paragraph in the folklore subsection about the origins of "Cup of Joe". Mr. Swordfish (talk) 22:34, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 September 2023

Country of origin Ethiopia Seidj (talk) 16:38, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:27, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA23 - Sect 202 - Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2023 and 14 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EdereOmnes (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by EdereOmnes (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Pope Clement VIII and the "devil's drink"

The article glosses over the prohibition of coffee specifically about Pope Clement tasting it and allowing it to be consumed. Is this story apocryphal? 2607:FEA8:4D41:2B50:7959:F408:6649:4B83 (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2023 (UTC)