Talk:Chinese head tax

Chronological Implausibility

The Government of Canada collected about $23 million in face value[2] from about 81,000 head tax payers, some of the money being used to support Canada's war effort in World War II. The total head tax collected by 1923 has been estimated as equivalent to over $1.5 billion in 1988 dollars.[citation needed]

This tax started in 1885 and ended in 1923, yet the money is supposed to have been used to support our World War Two expenses? Either this is a typo and should read "World War I" or else more explanation is needed as to how and where the money was squirreled away all that time. I personally feel that it is a typo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.222.246.177 (talk) 13:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation from "Head tax" and "Poll tax"

This article is named Head Tax. There is another article, Poll tax, which talks about the how this kind of tax has been used in different countries and times. The article Head tax (note that "t" is lowercase, instead of uppercase as in this article) redirects to Poll tax, not here. It would probably be less confusing if either:

• Head tax redirected here, and this article had a reference to Poll tax, or
• This article were renamed to Head Tax (Canada) or something more specific, and Head Tax redirected to the same place as Head tax.

Comments? (--Jdlh | Talk 23:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC))

I agree with the renaming suggestion, specifically "Head tax (Canada)" and have done so accordingly! Amchow78 19:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

POV Problem "Wikipedia: No original research "

What is this: "As a result, these racist measures caused great pain and suffering to the most vulnerable, or impoverished, class of Chinese arrivals--those who were at the bottom of the economic ladder." That's extremely POVish. What sources do you have for the "great pain and suffering"???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.82.215.23 (talk • contribs) 15:47, August 30, 2006

The word racist is used way too often in this article, I intend to try and balance this article. The article seems factually sound. Albion moonlight 08:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I deleted this text. It seems hopelessly point-of-view, violating WP:NPOV, and violates the Wikipedia:Verifiable policy. If it's true, and someone can find the reliable sources to cite, I don't object to it being restored. --Jdlh | Talk 04:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Families, sometimes, entire villages, in China were required to raise and advance funds to the payer who spent several years in indentured servitude in Canada to pay off the debt. ....In 1909, William Lyon Mackenzie King, who was a Member of Parliament for the Canadian House of Commons before becoming Liberal Prime Minister, represented the British Empire at an anti-opium conference in Beijing. According to popular, Eurocentric scholarship, King told the Qing Dynasty that he would try to persuade the government in reducing the sum of the head tax if his Chinese counterparts could restrict Chinese migration to Canada. The relevance of this exchange remains a major source of contention, as further research (including sources in the Chinese language and dialogue in the House of Common Debates) affirms the Chinese Consul having made several, unsuccessful attempts to improve the treatment of Chinese in Canada and their status as loyal subjects, despite Canada's total disregard of its international obligations for the Chinese people.

I also delete the term "Liberal" in several places, since it looks like an attempt to inject 2006 election politics into the article in a non-neutral way. In general, this article has POV from many directions: POV against the unfairness of the head tax, POV in favour of the fairness of the head tax, POV in 2006 election politics, etc. --Jdlh | Talk 04:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The author definitely has a POV problem. He/she insists on inserting 'racist' in reference to the head tax. I might be comfortable with discrimination but I fail to see how charging a tax is racist - even if it's only for one group of people. It's discrimination, yes, but not racism. Moreover, the author must be aware of the recent downturn in the number of Chinese able to visit or work in Canada. How could this be? Because the Gov't of Canada set a target for how many Chinese could come to Canada. How is this different from the head tax? It's not. Last, let's suppose the tax is racist. What, then, would its effect be? None - if no one decided to come to Canada. I deleted two references to racism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.179.207.29 (talk) 00:41, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

142.179.207.29, I think your removal of the word "racist" in two places was justified, because those words in those places harmed the neutrality of the text. It's a pity you didn't include an edit summary, because someone else reverted your changes as possible vandalism. As to your comments above, are you aware that this text is collaboratively edited, and so there's no one "author"? And I completely fail to follow your cavilling about "discrimination" as opposed to "racism". According to the description in WP's Racism article, I think these laws were clearly racist. Racism is in the motivation, not the implementation technique. --Jdlh | Talk 04:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree with the removal and the further comments and it's ironic that the deleted bit derides "According to popular, Eurocentric scholarship" when scholarship is antithetical to being popular, and all modern scholarship- and popular history alike (in Canada, I mean), are now sinocentric and full of quais-racist comments like "Eurocentric scholarship". It's not "Eurocentric" for King to ahve pursued the course of action he did; it was negotiatory. Adn just for the record, an attempt was made during the Fraser Gold Rush to charge a head tax on Americans and was similarly turned down, jsut as both London and Ottawa would do for many years after BC first requested it (or rather , treid its own until rejected by the imperial Privy Council). "Popular Chinese Canadian history" is grossly skewed, and chockfull of pat phrases like "the racist head tax" et....."sincocentric" histories tend to omit lots of facts also, such as the point that the laboureres were indentured not to white labour contractors, but to Chines ones, and either a railway labourer intends to return to China or he's an immigrant; you can't speak of them b th ways but typically the two are muddled; BC's reasons are wholesale dismissed with one word - "racism/t" (noun or adjective) and often portrayed as "racist" in a dubious way; this article is problematic because so many sources are POV in this fashion......; it's not history, it's propaganda and should be regarded as such, not reported blankly as if the condemnation were some kind of objective fact....the article should comment about the non-Chinese head tax attempts (there were more than oen as i recall)_, and also of the exemptions for British subjects, business people, clergy, students and others which somehow get ignored in the modern re-hype about all this....this article may be factual, but the facts have been sewn together in a certain way taht reflects a notable POV agenda and is full of obviously POV biases like those reflected in the bit deleted/quoted above, or arguments from POV sources ahae been presented as if they were facts, i.e. they're cited, but often fact and opinion are two very different things no matter if sourced or not. This article and certain others in WP:Canada need some kind of "POV watch" flag for intrusions of this kind of ma-factual and highly slanted (though popular and also scholarly)material.......and trading one ethnocentrism for another does not make an NPOV equstion..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skookum1 (talk • contribs) 21:14, October 19, 2008

Skookum1, interesting comments. But largely one contributor's POV, and no more relevant to Wikipedia than my POV or any other editor's POV. The standard for including material in Wikipedia is verifiability, a reader's ability to confirm in a reliable source that someone said what the material says. That means one participant's take on history belongs here, as well as another participant's different take — as long, of course, as both are cited to reliable sources. The article does have a literal '"POV watch" flag', it's spelled {{POV|date=April 2008}} and is at the top of the page. Care to have a go at improving the article? --Jdlh | Talk 04:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Compensation

The following text was in Chinese Immigration Act, 1923, but I think it belongs in the Head tax article instead. The compensation is for the head tax, not for the exclusion ordered by the 1923 bill. Please feel free to use this text as you boldly improve this article. --Jdlh | Talk 03:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Pressure was put on British Columbia Member of Parliament and Liberal cabinet minister Raymond Chan during the 2006 general elections. The petitioners are seeking the same outcome as Japanese-Canadians received in the late 1980s.

On June 22, 2006, the Prime Minister of Canada Stephen Harper while delivering a message of redress [1] for a head tax once applied to Chinese immigrants. Chinese-Canadian groups expect the government will also offer a multi-million-dollar compensation package to survivors who paid it, widows and their children.

Suggestion for new external link and Library resource section

The original head tax records of the Canadian government are now online, through a website at Library and Archives Canada(database co-developed by researchers at University of British Columbia). You can search the database by the immigrant’s name, head tax certificate number, or year of arrival, and then view an online copy of the ledger page showing the handwritten arrival information. The arrival information of over 95,000 people is recorded. There is no charge for using the database or viewing the images.

I think an external link to this database would be a good addition to this article, but also want to declare my COI – I work for Library and Archives Canada, and worked on this project.

I suggest we create a new Library Resources subsection within the External Links section, and add a link something like this:

Immigrants from China database at Library and Archives Canada – search and view the original head tax records for all Chinese immigrants to Canada from 1885 to 1949.

(BTW, the date of 1949 is correct! Although the head tax legislation was repealed in 1947, the records were maintained until 1949.) Jmhn1867 (talk) 16:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

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