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Talk:Cesária Évora/Archive 1

< Talk:Cesária Évora
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Ipigott in topic GA Review
Archive 1

Is this article a carbon copy???

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This article looks like it's an exact copy of the article in The African Music Encyclopedia. Or was that article copied from the one in Wikipedia?

Also, the picture is obviously the same as in a webpage on Cesária Évora, with an illustrated discography. The uploader (Jarod0139) readily states that he/she copied it from (http://www.caboverde.com/evora/evora.jpg).

Beware, Wikipedia Admins. --AVM 13:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

A bit of clarification needed

Latest comment: 18 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

What was her first album?

According to the article: "And thanks to the women's association, she remained to record her first album. This proved to be a major turning point in her life.

While recording her album she met a Frenchman of Cape Verdian descent named Jose Da Silva who persuaded her to go to Paris where she recorded a new album, La diva aux pieds nus (The Barefoot Diva) in 1988....

Discography 1. La Diva aux pieds nus - 1988"

The article says that La diva aux pieds nus is her second album, but the discography list says otherwise. Arthurian Legend 15:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

oh and one more thing, does she sing in Portuguese or in Portuguese-Creole from Cape Verde?

Talk:Cesária Évora/Temp - New Article with Copy Violation Removed

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Talk:Cesária Évora/Temp has newly edited text which removes the violation. --Kevin Murray 10:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There was a bit of a mixup when another editor moved this temporary page, thinking it was an article made in the wrong space. I have (I hope) moved it back so it is as it was. Rockpocket 23:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Not acceptable

Latest comment: 17 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

This is still Copyvio. Either write this from scratch, or delete the article. Moving sentences around and changing adjectives here and there just makes this a hodgepodge copyvio, but does not solve the problem. For example:

Britannica Profiles: http://search.eb.com/women/article-9404031 AME: http://africanmusic.org/artists/evora.html


Article: "Cesária Évora, is a notable folk singer, known as the "barefoot diva" because she frequently appears on stage in her bare feet, to bring attention to the homeless and poor women and children in her country"

AME: "Cesaria Evora... is known as the barefoot diva because of her propensity to appear on stage in her bare feet in support of the disadvantaged women and children of her country."

Article: "She is recognized as the queen of the morna, a soulful genre which evolved from the Portuguese fado sung in the Creole-Portuguese language. Her voice is finely tuned with a touch of hoarseness. She is routinely accompanied by guitar, cavaquinho, violin, accordion, and clarinet."

AME: "Long known as the queen of the morna, a soulful genre sung in Creole-Portuguese... Evora's voice, a finely-tuned, melancholy instrument with a touch of hoarseness... with the acoustic sounds of guitar, cavaquinho, violin, accordian, and clarinet."

Article: "Even audiences who do not understand her language can appreciate the emotions of her performances, which often portray her nation's long and troubled history of isolation and slave trade, as well as emigration – nearly 70% of the Cape Verdean living citizens are expatriates.."

AME: "Even audiences who do not understand her language are held spell-bound by the emotions evident in her performances... Evora's Cape Verdean blues often speak of the country's long and bitter history of isolation and slave trade, as well as emigration: almost two-thirds of the million Cape Verdeans alive live abroad."

Ori Redler 18:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned earlier, I do understand the seriousness of copyvio, but what is so sacred about infomation at http://africanmusic.org/artists/evora.html. In all my time on wikipedia, I have never seen an internet article so well guarded and protected. Muntuwandi 18:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing sacred about that information, except that it is not ours to take without permission. I am not guarding this article, but more annoyed by the fact that the copyvio label is removed time and again without rewriting the copyrighted material, and this is not the first time I've encountered this either, which makes it even more annoying, and I'm even more annoyed that when someone notes politely that this is copied nothing is done (see above) so I need to bother with this time and again. Ori Redler 01:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Please, stop this copyvio "party"

Latest comment: 17 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

I've noted, rather then adding a copyvio label again, that there is still a copyvio problem here, but instead of solving it it is extended by copying still more from the sources I've mentioned above. Please, rewrite the whole article or there will be no choice except labelling it as copyvio again. 18:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Unless any wikipedian can have a personal interview with evora, we'll need to rely on these sources for information. In its current form the article does not rely heavily on one source but on several that are all cited in the external links. I do not understand why this article is being picked on.Muntuwandi 01:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

You seem to miss a crucial point here: it doesn't matter how many sources you rely on -- you can rely on one or ten -- and it doesn't really matter how heavily you rely on any of them, and it isn't even crucial if you cite them or reference them -- what matters is that you (and others) copy passages from those sources verbatim. Ori Redler 13:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
In a sense it does matter. If an article contains multiple sources it will become more unique and will not resemble any one single source.Muntuwandi 15:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it does matter: if you copy verbatim from multiple sources, that aggravates the situation, because it is not only a copyright violation, but one you try to hide. Ori Redler 17:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Previous Version

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm late to this discussion -- I'm just curious, what happened to the earlier version of the article, and why was it junked? Appreciate any light anyone could shed. —GGreeneVa 18:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It was deleted and replaced with the current version because of copyright violations. It is essentially the same old copied article (i.e., also copyvio). Ori Redler 17:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Evora.jpg

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 

Image:Evora.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Now I See...

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

...why this article reads like a promotional bio sketch put out by an artists management rep. Jeez, what does it take to get you guys to take this issue seriously? Cgingold (talk) 10:22, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Authorship of Sodade

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The version by Bonga (Angola 74) may have been the original version, but per the liner notes of Miss Perfumado, authorship credit for Sodade belongs to Luis Morais & Amandio Cabral. There are also mentions of a different couple, namely Armando Zerafino Soares & Amandio Cabral, making the rounds. Pending resolution, the sure thing is that the lyrics were by Mr. Cabral.

BTW, there's this version by Cesaria & Bonga together, with the Youtube caption crediting Amandio Cabral/Amandio Cabral - Luis Morais. elpincha (talk) 03:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Cesária Évora discography

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Support split - Discography section takes up more than one third of the page, and should be split to a new article entitled Cesária Évora discography. --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:21, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Sources to improve the article's quality

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello dear wikipedians, i have spent some hours to find possible reliable sources, which can help to improve the quality of the article in question. Now follows a list from what i was able to find, may we can improve this article together in the future with this material.

Michel Kemper on December 17, 2011

Chris Gibson, John Conell

Paul Cicero

Tom Moon

Andrew Gilbert, December 3, 2006

Anne Berthod on 16 December 2011

Lusophone Africa: Beyond Independence, Fernando Arenas

Barbara Gilford on July 10, 1994

Angel H. Sopena on 10.05.2019

Jon Pareles on Feb. 2, 2014

Neil Strauss on Oct. 11, 1995

Gwen Ansell on 10.05.2019 2006

Barry Davis on June 27, 2013

Andrew Gilbert on May 26, 2009

Kevin R. Convey on May 22, 2009

Marivic Tagala May. 11, 2010

Emilio Figueredo on 18 June, 2019

Dario D'Angelo on 27.08.2019

Gianni Valentino on November 10, 2012

Mia Pappalardo on 27 August 2019

Francesco Fredella on 6 December 2017

I know it takes time to put time in writing the article, so please don't be overwhelmed of the sheer size of this sources. Nobody expect from anyone, to transform this article into an flawless one. This list should just help to improve the quality of the article. Thanks and have a nice weekend. Abani79 (talk) 11:15, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

Latest comment: 1 year ago14 comments3 people in discussion
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Cesária Évora/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I'll take this one. Reviewer: SusunW (talk · contribs) 16:40, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


Photos

  • I think that the photo of the statue cannot be used. Two issues as I see it. 1) it is a derivative work of the sculptor's creation. While the photograph belongs to the person who took it, the question remains if they violated the copyright of the sculptor. Cape Verde copyright requires the authorization of the author, identification of the author and title of the piece – none of which are given in the image on commons. 2) Cape Verde freedom of panorama is also restricted to non-commercial images, which violates Commons's policy.
  • I'm also not sure of the bank note. I don't see Cape Verde on the Commons:Currency page nor the above page any discussion of bank notes, but the Banco de Cabo Verde site is pretty explicit. "In accordance with Article 13 of Banco de Cabo Verde's Organic Law, 'The imitation or reproduction of Cabo Verde escudo banknotes and coins, in whole or in part and through any technical process, as well as the distribution of these reproductions or imitations, and the making of plates, dies or other technical means that allow reproduction or imitation, when they do not fall under the crimes of counterfeiting or alteration of the face value of a currency, constitute an infraction punishable by a fine of CVE 50,000 to CVE 2,500,000 or CVE 100,000 to CVE 15,000,000, depending on whether the agent is a natural person or a legal or equivalent person'." The fact that is says when they are not for counterfeiting it is still an infraction seals it for me, but I'm willing to discuss. SusunW (talk) 17:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
  • I removed both images.

Copyvio

  • Earwig shows a 72% violation with Radio Swiss Jazz comparing text from that website last updated 03.09.2018 21:31:51 and the last previous WP version created on 19 February 2018 Special:PermanentLink/826557792, it looks like the jazz cite copied WP, not vice verse.
  • Ditto on the 72% violation with WBSS Media. Pulling an archived version of that website from 2019 (the earliest saved in archive.org) and comparing it with the same 19 February 2018 version of WP confirms WBSS copied WP, not vice verse.
  • Earwig's 60.5% violation with World Banknotes Coins blog, which dates from September 2017. Comparing the blog to Special:PermanentLink/797643043 28 August 2017 on WP, the blog was 95.1% taken directly from WP.

Will check to see if there are any actual issues as I review sources. SusunW (talk) 17:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Lede

  • She was known for her habits of performing barefoot and stopping performances to smoke and drink on stage. Reading the body it says she did that at intermission. Maybe I'm being too picky, but one seems spontaneous (stopping performance) and the other seems planned (intermission).
  • Fixed.
  • Clarify when the Grammy happened. The body says She won the Grammy Award for Best Contemporary World Music Album in 2003 and Évora's ninth album, Voz d'Amor, won a Grammy Award in 2004 Martin p. 92 says 2003 was for Voz d'Amor in Best Contemporary World Music category, whereas Abah says the same category and album but in 2004. Checking newspapers.com it was released and nominated in 2003 but the award ceremony happened on 8 February 2004. I don't know how you reword this, perhaps nominated in 2003, awarded in 2004, but it needs to be consistent throughout the article.
  • Changed it to "2004". I figure the year she got the award is the one that matters.
  • José "Djô" da Silva is French? His name is decidedly Portuguese. The bio of him in Nos Genti magazine says he was born in Praia, raised in Senegal, and then educated in France. On the other hand it says he completed obligatory military service and it is implied, but not stated, that that was for France, so maybe he is French? This p. 59 says he was born in Senegal, which was a French colony until 1960. Most sources confirm he was born in Praia. I think I would lose the "French" because wherever he was born, it was in Africa. Martin styles him as a "Cape Verdean raised in France", p. 88 which seems more accurate. SusunW (talk) 19:03, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
  • I've removed his nationality here since it's not important in this summary.

Early life

  • Perhaps clarify that Luís Morais wasn't a singer but rather a musician, i.e. clarinetist.
  • released two 45 RPM records is a direct quote. Either mark it as such or reword. Possibly two singles?
  • Évora had two children, a son and a daughter, about eight years apart don't see the eight years apart in Decker? The LA Times says she "had three children from three different fathers," and one of them died. So was it two or three?
  • The source gave their ages, which were eight years apart, but I removed this as part of a rewrite of this paragraph.
  • and was a single mother is not in Decker; instead it is in Moon p. 266. Just move the citation for Decker to follow divorced three times,
  • Évora decided to retire from music may not accurately reflect the situation. I mean did she decide or did she have to do it because her health (mental and physical) wouldn't allow her to? According to Martin, the combination of inadequate nutrition, alcoholism, and depression left her struggling to survive and a group of citizens took up a collection to get her into treatment and pay for her medical expenses. p 87
  • No copyvios in the section. SusunW (talk) 20:02, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
  • I've made all of the changes for this section.

Return to music

  • Neither of the two sources cited gives the name of the anthology album, but Arenas p. 59 says the title was Mudjer (Woman).
  • Should say briefly who Bana is. NPR calls him the "king of morna".
  • she was discovered by music producer José "Djô" da Silva here there is no mention of his nationality at all and to me, it seems a disconnection because as I said his name is Portuguese and I think it would automatically make the reader wonder why he took her to Paris. I think it eliminates confusion to say he was a Cape Verdean living in France. Cited to Martin p. 88.
  • I added that he was based in France, which I think is the relevant detail here.
  • They had trouble finding a distributor is on p 88, so your citation needs to reflect both 88-89.
  • Since this is English wp, shouldn't the translations for all the albums appear in ()? Translated names in Arenas p. 60.
  • Would global tours be better phrased as "touring globally"? And I think you should flip this sentence and the next one because she didn't go to the US until 1995, but the Théâtre de la Ville concert was in 1992.
  • I'm not sure what I'm supposed to flip here.
  • Speaking of that concert at Théâtre de la Ville, you should add in Paris.
  • successful tour in the United State add an "s" to States.
  • Source (and the photo of the album cover) say the name of the 5th album was Cesaria Evora without any acute or grave accent marks.
  • From In 2010, Évora performed to career due to poor health is cited to Publico, which is a Portuguese newspaper, not a webpage. The newspaper confirms only that she had open-heart surgery in May 2010 in Paris and retired in September 2011 after doctors ordered her to cancel an upcoming tour. I've looked at nearly every source used in the article and find none that give the details in the article about 8, 11, or 16 May. Unless you can find a source, this information needs to be removed.
  • I sourced the heart attack and the surgery. The detailed account of each day didn't feel necessary, so I removed it.
  • Évora died in São Vicente seems oddly worded. One cannot die "in" an island, one is "on" an island. Nevertheless, the article in Público (Spain) doesn't say where she died. The LA Times says she died at a hospital in Mindelo, on São Vicente.
  • No apparent copyvios.
  • I've made all changes for this section except for the one noted above.

Acting

One sentence neither makes a paragraph nor should be given undue weight with an article section. It isn't as if she was an actor or even starred in the films. Were it me, I would add them to the "Return to music and international success" section following She released several more albums, each two to three years apart, over the following years. At a minimum, the years should be given for the films and preferably the roles she played. (I would also suggest you input the archive link for the NY Times as the site is paywalled for many trying to access it from outside the US.)

  • No copyvios.

I'm going to have to break here and will return tomorrow. SusunW (talk) 23:20, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

  • These were not significant and I had removed them previously. Removed again.

Awards

  • Citation for In 1997, Évora won has an error message CS1 maint: unfit URL, but links to a page of photos. It doesn't verify the text and I'm not sure it could be called a reliable, independent source. This Billboard article, p. 60 confirms the win and provides the information that best album was for Cabo Verde.
  • Replaced.
  • What makes www.okayafrica.com a RS? When did her 2nd win happen? What was it for? The Daily Independent via AllAfrica (use the archive link as the live one is paywalled) says 2010 Lifetime Achievement Award. It should go in the proper chronological order.
  • Replaced.
  • However you deal with the Grammy in the lede should happen here so that we have one set of dates. Also not sure why only two of her Grammy nominations are in the article. According to Terza Silva Lima-Neves's biography in Dictionary of African Biography (WP Library version from Oxford Reference) she was nominated 6 times and won once. Why is this source hidden and not used? It has lots of valuable information: parents names, her performances on Radio Mindelo in the 1950s and 1960s (not her bar performances) spread her fame throughout the country, in 1987 Bana took her to the US for a series of concerts before he hired her for his restaurant, world tours, winning a Victoires de la Musique award, etc. The article seems to somewhat narrowly focus on album releases, but Lima-Neves's article balances the performances and provides more depth to her fame.
  • I read through the Dictionary of African Biography entry and added relevant details, including the Grammy nominations.
I appreciate your additions. Only thing I personally think is relevant is that She then met Bana makes it seem like she met him and he asked her to work in his restaurant. In actuality they toured in the US together and then he asked her to work in the restaurant per Lima-Neves. (Touring on another continent is a big deal when one is a performer.) SusunW (talk) 14:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Clarified and changed the source.

Musical style and image

  • making her one of the few prominent African musical artists who did not change her performances to a global language to increase marketability does not seem to be supported by the source cited. Do you have a source that says performing in Kriol was atypical for Africans? Reviewing the other sources, it didn't have anything to do with a marketing ploy. Arenas p 62 says she wasn't able to communicate other than in Portuguese or Kriol.
  • Removed.
  • If you are going to include so much about her bad habits, you should probably also state that she quit drinking in 1994. Don't remember which of the sources I read this in (more than one) but it is definitely here. I also am not sure about the rum given in Abah. Numerous sources, such as Martin p. 89, this, and this say her preference was cognac.
  • Added.

Legacy

  • The Billboard article "Madonna and Maluma Perform..." doesn't even mention Évora. From what I see Madonna was a fan of Évora but I don't find any sources that specifically say meeting her inspired the album. Perhaps you will have better luck finding a source?
  • I must have grabbed the wrong Billboard link! I've replaced it with the correct citation.
  • honored on stamps probably better to say "her portrait was featured on Cape Verdean postage stamps and on the 2000 Escudos banknotes" or she was honored with her portrait being featured ..." Also wouldn't a better independent source like better] reflect WP policy?
  • Reworded. Source not changed because of my concerns about Pulse Live.
  • Is a google doodle noteworthy?
  • It is not. Removed.
  • statue of her perhaps add "by Domingos Luisa"?
  • Added.
  • a butterfly in the family Lycaenidae named Chilades evorae which is found on the island of Santo Antão, and a species of sea slug called Aegires evorae, which exists in the northeast part of the island of Sal in the area of Calhetinha. is direct quote from the Pulse Live and Face to Face articles and should be marked with ".
  • Only copyvio is noted in the comment immediately preceding this statement. SusunW (talk) 18:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
  • I suspect that the Pulse Live and Face to Face articles are examples of WP:citogenesis. And even if they're not, then they're copyvio. I already removed them once, I don't know why someone restored them. I'm not too worried about them since they only cite trivia, but I didn't find any other sources besides these after a quick search.

Discography

  • What makes www.cesaria-evora.com/ an independent RS? I think you are far better off to use the dates of release given in the numerous RS already cited.
  • I think this is a reasonable use of a dependent source. There's no need to establish weight for listing her discography and it's not a contentious claim. The alternative would be collecting individual citations for each album.
  • Ditto on World Music Report. The website doesn't show any information in about and I have been unable to substantiate that it has an editorial board. The author Oscar Montagut appears to be a freelance writer, but I've not found evidence that he has published widely in notable journals. Maybe your searches will yield different results. An alternative might be this one from the Financial Times.
  • Removed.

Thebiguglyalien I think that's it. As always, you are free to question any of my remarks. Thank you for working on the article. I genuinely enjoyed reading it and learning about her. Will put it on hold and won't get back to it today. My husband and I are celebrating our anniversary. SusunW (talk) 18:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

SusunW, I've made changes for all of your comments except for one under "Return to music" and one under "Discography". Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Finishing up

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):  
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):  
    b (citations to reliable sources):  
    c (OR):  
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):  
    b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  

Overall:
Pass/Fail:  

  ·   ·   ·  


Thebiguglyalien after reviewing the changes and your comments, I think it meets the criteria. The only outstanding item is the first US tour, but I won't hold up passing it for that. I think it is important, you may not, so it isn't critical to the pass. Sorry to lose the photos, but I couldn't see a way around that. Really appreciate your work on her. Congrats. Give me a few minutes to do all the updates. SusunW (talk) 14:18, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

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