Talk:Carl C. Turner

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Narutolovehinata5 (talk) 08:53, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

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• ... that Carl C. Turner, a retired Major general and former United States Army Provost Marshal General and Chief, Executive Office for United States Marshals was convicted in 1971 of illegal firearms transactions and income tax evasion and was sentenced to three years in prison? Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/01/01/retired-army-gen-carl-c-turner-83-dies
• alt1... that Carl C. Turner, who had been a United States Army Provost Marshal General, was sentenced to three years in jail, for dealing in illegal firearms?

alt1 doesnt mention everything but does, I think, include the hooky bit. Victuallers (talk) 16:18, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

• • Reviewed:

Created by Mztourist (talk). Self-nominated at 04:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC).

• I'm concerned that this article is completely dominated by material about the PX scandal. If the goal is to write an article about that matter, then it should be called PX scandal. If the goal is to write a biography of Turner, then more needs to be said about his life up to that point. Just looking at Newspapers.com, a fair amount can be found – general bio info here, outside activities here, duties and promotions during 1961 here and here and here, attitude towards neo Nazis here and elsewhere, attitude towards rioters here. That's with just a little looking in one place. The point being, he must have had something going for himself to have become a two-star general and Army Provost Marshal General in the first place. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:57, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Thanks, but I don't have access to newspapers.com and so cant read any of the articles you mentioned. Mztourist (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
    • I've made clips of them, so that you and everyone else can see them: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108015766/the-daily-oklahoman/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108015810/the-daily-record/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108015867/the-charlotte-observer/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108015920/the-marlow-review/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108016155/the-marlow-review/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108016227/star-gazette/ ; https://www.newspapers.com/clip/108016281/the-times/ . Wasted Time R (talk) 13:15, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
    • Also a book suggestion: Stuart Schrader, Badges Without Borders: How Global Counterinsurgency Transformed American Policing (University of California Press, 2019), pp. 175–180 has a discussion of Turner's actions as Army Provost Marshal General in relation to the FBI, local police departments, etc. See also for instance this FBI Award that Turner received at the time. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
      • Wasted Time R thanks very much for adding those clips. The Daily Oklahoman contradicts the Washington Post obit and is rather vague so can't be used. The Daily Record story is fairly trivial and largely about Boy Scouts. The Charlotte Observer story is just a namecheck. The rest contained useful information so I've added them in, thanks! I also remembered a US Army publication on domestic disorders which had some useful detail of his role during 1965-8. Mztourist (talk) 03:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
        • @Mztourist: I believe the Daily Oklahoman clip's biographical information can be reconciled with the WaPo obit. Per the Daily Oklahoman clip, he enlists in the 45th Infantry Division (United States), which is actually an Oklahoma National Guard unit, in 1930 at age 17. He presumably starts out as a private. I found this clip from 1933 about a National Guard unit from Altus, his hometown, engaging in training at Fort Sill in Oklahoma, by which point Turner is listed as a corporal. Now he attends Southwestern Teachers College; this clip states that he graduated in May 1939 with a Bachelor of Science degree. That's a four-year degree, so he would have started there in 1935. If he was in the ROTC there, then he becomes a cadet in 1935 and that is likely what the WaPo obit is referring to as being commissioned in 1935. The 45th Infantry Division gets sent to Sicily, Italy, and France during the war, so that fits with the WaPo description of him serving in Europe. He stays in the army and per the Daily Oklahoman clip goes into the Military Police in 1950, thereby setting up the rest of his career. ... And as I was looking for something else, I just ran across this AP story from 1969 which pretty much confirms what I was saying, and provides additional bio information as well. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
          • Thanks I've added that detail in. I think the page is now sufficiently detailed for the DYK to be advanced. regards Mztourist (talk) 08:10, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
            • Yes, the article body is now sufficiently detailed, but the lede needs work to reflect what has been added. As it stands now it doesn't even mention that he was Army Provost Marshal General. Also, I think the education field of the infobox should be used. In addition to his bachelor's degree, per the WaPo obit he got a master's degree from GWU. I looked a bit but couldn't find out when that was (right after the war? sometime later when he was stationed near DC?). So it's difficult to add it into the narrative, but it could certainly be put in the infobox. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:03, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
              • Mztourist, Wasted Time R, it's been a few weeks—where does this stand? I see that an extra sentence has been added to the lede; does this now meet the DYK criteria? Articles don't need to be complete for DYK, unlike GAN. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:08, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
                • The nominator didn't post anything here after that sentence was added, so I wasn't sure if there was more to follow. But I thought the lede could have a little more added describing his time as Army Provost Marshal General. I also didn't get a response about putting education, including the master's from GWU, into the infobox. Also, there was no QPQ done; I think the nominator has had five past nominations, although I when I originally looked I wasn't sure. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:08, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
                  • @Mztourist: Can you please confirm how many past DYK nominations you've had? QPQ check is suggesting four DYK credits, however per a recent change the QPQ requirement kicks in if you've had five or more nominations (not necessarily credits). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:31, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
                    • I thought that this page was sufficient, but apparently not, I can't really be bother pursuing a DYK any more. regards Mztourist (talk) 06:06, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
                      • @Mztourist: So you are withdrawing this nomination? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:31, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
                        • Yes. Mztourist (talk) 08:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)