Talk:Bloods & Crips

Legitimacy

I maintain that this article is legitimate as a stand-alone page. It documents a collaborative effort which spanned two albums, both of which charted in the United States; it is treated as a separate entity by All Music Guide, and both of the albums charted and sold well. Redirecting to one of the album pages makes vanishingly little sense. Chubbles (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I do agree with you. But the only thing I say it's that there's no group called "Bloods & Crips", but two groups that made the two albums (Nationwide Rip Ridaz and Damu Ridas). Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 04:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Damn, you can even see what I'm saying in the infobox. The "members" are two groups. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 04:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I didn't make the infobox. Here's the thing. Someone looking for information on this musical collaboration is not going to get much out of either the Bloods or Crips page. It would be most useful for the information to be shunted to a separate page on the collaboration itself. Chubbles (talk) 04:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

That's why the redirect is the best choice in my opinion. I do not deny the albums charted in the U.S. You can add the chart positions and sourced on the albums articles and in the both groups aswell. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 04:38, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

But...you can't redirect the article to two album pages. This serves as a centralized place for information about the genesis and history of the collaboration itself, and the album pages are about...the albums. If anything, the albums should be merged here (not particularly wise, especially since they charted, but conceivable if someone thought to fight hard enough for it). Chubbles (talk) 04:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily you only add information about an album in an album article. Look at this article, which is about an album and it's featured on Wikipedia. Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers). Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 04:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see the parallel; Wu-Tang Clan, of course, has its own article. Look, your argument would make sense if this was a one-off single or even a one-album get-together. But it was an extended partnership, and there is probably even scholarship out there discussing its historical significance within the communities of urban black America. I think the more apt parallel would be something like USA for Africa - this is a one-off single, and it's got its own page alongside the song, ("We Are the World") and that is as it should be, since both USA for Africa and "We Are the World" are notable entities. Chubbles (talk) 05:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Get your point, because I didn't understand it. The last article is a song... and? Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 05:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The parallel is: USA for Africa is a collaboration between several individuals. It is notable on its own; it has its own article. "We Are the World" is notable; it has its own article, separate from USA for Africa. Likewise: Bloods & Crips is a collaboration between two individual groups. It is notable on its own; should have its own article. Bangin' on Wax is notable; should have its own article, separate from Bloods & Crips. Bangin' on Wax 2 is notable; should have its own article, separate from both. Chubbles (talk) 05:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I understand your point now. But I'm going to say it again: Bloods & Crips as a single group, does not exists, thus it shouldn't have an article. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 05:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Not in the sense of a band proper; but as a single entity, it indisputably exists. As a notable subject, it exists as well. It's perfectly legitimate as a subject of an encyclopedia article. Perhaps we need a third opinion. Chubbles (talk) 06:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree the article can be created as an entity and not as a single music group, it shouldn't have a discography, but it could be mentioned both albums and further information. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 06:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean it shouldny have discography, the artist listed is not Damu Ridas or Nationwide Rip Ridaz, it is Bloods & Crips, also the Damu Ridas, NRR and Bloods & Crips have seperate pages on the All Music Guide. Bloods & Crips are not the Damu Ridas or NRR they are a combination of the two. Does having this article on Wikipedia cause a huge amount of pain, Tasc0, just leave it be.Same As It Ever Was (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to reply to your ignorants comments. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 22:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

What's ignorant? You have caused alot of great and deserving articles to be deleted, that, I believe, is ignorant. You were nearly blocked for you edits to this article, I'm trying to save you from alot of pain and humilation and that block would have really hurt your chances of being a administrator, which you clearly want to be, and good luck with that, but you don't have to take deserving articles down.Same As It Ever Was (talk) 23:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I nearly get blocked? Lol. I didn't broke any rule, I even was reported for breaking the WP:3RR and I didn't get blocked because I didn't broke it. Check the log.

You even asked Spellcast to block me because you're not thinking clearly. How is he going to block when I haven't done anything wrong? You mad? Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 23:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Crips

The following text added by an anon was removed by a regular editor:

"representing the Crips were AWOL(shot dead in 2003 by a policeman- Kelly Park Compton Crips), BK(dead- Rollin 60 Neighborhood Crips), Big Freeze(dead- Watts Franklin Crips), Blue Rag(dead- Tragniew Compton Crips), Broncoe(Eastside Fudge Town Mafia Crips), C-Note(Rollin 20's Long Beach Crips), Cixx Pac(gunned down by Bounty Hunter Bloods in 1999-Watts Franklin Crips), Do Or Die(dead- Tragniew Compton Crips), Sin Loc(gunned down by Tree Top Pirus in 1993- Rollin 60 Neighborhood Crips), G-Bone(now an O.G. of the gang- South Atlantic Drive Compton Crips), Koollay(dead- Watts Franklin Crips), Scarface(dead- South Atlantic Drive Compton Crips) and Twin Loc(Avalon Gangster Crips)."

Parked here for historical interest and pending possible reintroduction; it seems particularly worthy of note that so many of the contributors to this project are already dead. Chubbles (talk) 20:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Request for third opinion

User:Chubbles and myself do not agree on wheter this article should exists or not. Basically the first thread on this talk page gives an idea why. Also, User talk:Tasc0#B.26C_again should be read too.
I'll try to make my point simple:

• A group called Bloods & Crips does not exist. It was actually two groups (Damu Ridas and Nationwide Rip Ridaz) that released these two albums as a collaboration. Not as a single group. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 21:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
• Rebuttal My contention is that this collaboration should be listed as a stand-alone article because it was an extended project which lasted more than one album. If the groups had combined for a one-off single or album and then dispersed, it would make sense to make this a redirect to the album page. However, they released two albums under the name Bloods & Crips, both of which charted in the U.S. and sold well. All Music Guide devotes a unique entry to the collaboration, and I think it makes the most sense for a reader seeking information to have this as a stand-alone article. Chubbles (talk) 21:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
  • That information can be found/merged to both groups' articles. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 21:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion

Hey. The existence of an article isn't really something that's suited for a third opinion. If you don't think the article should exist, consider putting it up at WP:AFD. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 22:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

This initially came up becase Tasc0 had repeatedly redirected this page to Bangin' on Wax, the first release from Bloods & Crips. Chubbles (talk) 23:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

THIRD OPINION

At one point in time there was a group called Bloods and Crips. It wasn't until after their second album release that they went their seperate ways and became the Damu Ridaz and so on. The group eventually broke up due to the violation of the cease fire treaty between the Bloods and Crips. The album 'Bangin on Wax' didn't even drop until after the treaty was signed and active. When the cease fire was over, so to were the Bloods and Crips, and thus the two seperate groups in which you speak of were formed. Before the album, they were all individual representatives of their various respective sets. They were not already identified as two seperate groups. As a matter of fact Ronnie Ron had auditions prior to the production of the album to see who was going to record. The people on the albums are that final product. The final cut if you will. Prior to this audition and 2 albums, many of the members either didn't know each other or only knew of each other by name and reputation.- B.H —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.208.240.63 (talk) 17:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Member list

Did someone seriously just request citations for group members? This is really taking WP:RS to an absurd degree. For one thing, I took the members I added straight from the AMG history of the group, which is only partial. Second, what I really wanted in adding the expand tag was for someone who owns the album to fill in all the members listed on the CD booklet (I presume they are listed, and if not there is surely a way to access this information). I am absolutely not going to sit and add cite tags to each member, as this is cumbersome, unfriendly, awkward and inhibitive for newer editors. There is nothing controversial about a memberlist. Chubbles (talk) 22:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

When a content is likely to be challengeable, there must be some type of source citing that information. Since there's none, it can be removed according to the guidelines. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 22:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Except that, a list of members of a group is not "information likely to be challengeable". It's simple, factual information that is not generally subject to false addition. Chubbles (talk) 22:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In this case it is. Several users have been adding and removing names from the list; also adding information about some members being deceased. This informations needs to be verified. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 22:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Births and deaths should be verified, but the member list itself is not controversial. You can remove deaths and causes as unsourced, since that's a potential WP:BLP liability issue, and I'd understand that. But not having the names of the group members is a failure to provide even basic information about the group. Chubbles (talk) 22:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The thing is that several users add and remove names from that list and this makes it a challengeable content. Being that said, it needs sources and if there are none it can be removed. Please stop adding the content if you don't cite any sources. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 23:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

No, what happened was, they added names, and then you removed them. I didn't see any serious challenges to the memberlist itself. I wish you would stop making a point about this page. Like I said, the members I've mentioned are all in the AMG bio, which is plenty enough reliable, and I'll thank you to not remove them again as you and I can both see that they are, in fact, truthfully all members. Chubbles (talk) 00:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Forgive me for budging in, but if the member list is sourced to AMG, then a simple reference will suffice. Something like <ref name="AMG">{{cite web |url= http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:0zfyxqy5ld0e~T1 |title= Bloods & Crips Biography |accessdate=2008-06-05 |last= Kergan |first= Wade |date= |work= allmusic |publisher= Macrovision Corporation}}</ref>. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 01:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I've put in another third-opinion request about this. I have noted where I got the information; there is no reasonable dispute over the fact that the current listed members were in the group, and still another editor has insisted that they fail WP:V. Now each member is tagged with a citation from AMG. I have never seen us so enslaved to a policy; this whole conversation borders on the sociopathic. If anything else, these cites should be removed per WP:IAR. It's as absurd as requiring a third-party source for verifying that George Harrison was in the Beatles. Chubbles (talk) 14:50, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

3O: Often, folks will add the ref tag to the header, or after the header "the list follows"[cite]:, (I prefer the latter). It's a little redundant (==Members== followed by "Here's a list of members" (duh)), but at least you have one place to fit just one reference for everyone. Xavexgoem (talk) 10:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

addendum: if the source has verifiable info, but doesn't give the complete list, it might be wise to say so up front (it's also a place to put the ref); if a member is likely to be challenged, then they do need a citation. I think I might not understand the entire dispute, so I'll hang around :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 10:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

5/9 Brims (East Coast)

The Brims in NYC, are some of the most ruthless gang members in America. Some, members have been concluded as delicate situations. Do to there over compensation for violence. Some higher up members such as Scar, and Chuck Taylor have been known to higher some of the young mentioned members to do their dirty work. In May of 2011 there were a string of shootings killing 3 rival gang members, in the Mott Haven section of the Bronx. Police questioned Devan "Storm" Jackson and Omar Nieves better known as "Omar Brim," for the murders even though no one was convicted and Jackson/Nieves both got to walk. They had once again been in the public eye after Jacksons childhood friend, Marquis Samuels was stabbed to death in his birthday. By the same members of the victims Jackson and Nieves had allegedly murdered earlier that year. It was said that Storm Brim(Jackson) had retaliated by stabbing a member of the 9 Trey Gangster Bloods and Jackson was found guilty on aggravated assault but was than looked at as a true pioneer of the new school Blood gangmembers as a "Real G." Shortly after his incarceration the 5/9 Brims had than had a name for themselves as the new impetuous super power in the South Bronx dealing in drugs and the distribution of firearms to other organizations within there threshold in order to maximize safety amongst these groups. As Thomas, "Scar" Martin was being released in the Winter of 2012 the other floor generals had come to an agreement that he had started an unsanctioned war amongst the 5/9 Brims and there new sworn enemies the 9 Trey gangsters. Within months of Storm Brim's release there was said to be a contract on his head due to the killings earlier that summer and he was forced to leave the Bronx by that borough's Alderman LeAnn Patrick. Having to leave his family due to but not only a 838 section C protection by the state. He was also labeled as a menace to society with his return to New York City as a violation of his departure and to be tried as a gang leader under the mandated Rico Law which would've landed him in the state penitentiary for 15 to 20 years. So, it is said that said by an unknown source that Jackson had recently moved south to the Carolinas and Nieves since than has been in and out of the State Facility with newly given position as the new 4th floor general of the 5/9 Brims. One of few organizations in NYC can say that they were responsible for creating a new law that opposed and gave any member of a gang who has had prior convictions with a threat to his or her life the ability to be unable to reside in the city for the duration of there life due to the reoccurance of possible violence or murder. This known as the Hempstead Act. you can (talk) 01:51, 11 January 2017 (UTC)