Talk:Black Death in Poland

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by MeegsC (talk) 15:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

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• ... that Poland was one of the places in Europe least affected by the Black Death? Source: "In the cores we have analysed so far, no significant decreases in the share of pollen of cereals, weeds or other plants related to human activity are recorded, which means that there was no depopulation." from: [Szymon Zdziebłowski - Black Death did not reach Poland, according to peat bog evidence]
  • ALT1:... that during the Black Death, Poland was largely unaffected? Source: "In the cores we have analysed so far, no significant decreases in the share of pollen of cereals, weeds or other plants related to human activity are recorded, which means that there was no depopulation." from: [Szymon Zdziebłowski - Black Death did not reach Poland, according to peat bog evidence]

Created/expanded by Nekomancerjade (talk). Self-nominated at 02:57, 25 June 2021 (UTC).

• I'll review this but first please fix the grammar/vocabulary issue. 2/3 of the lead read like some machine-translated gibberish with typos including lack of capitalization: "polands bubonic plague was almost none existent the border of poland that had the plague was more impacted by the seasonal flu witch, the flu in these years killed more people then the plague in poland ever did, the seasonal flu kills an avrage on 50k-80k a year and this number grows every year even modern pandemics do not compare to this number for every year this number blows up but no cure is found." Please ping me when this went through Grammarly or such. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey, Piotrus. Not sure what happened there. It was reverted pretty soon after some IP put it there... think it was some Polish nationalist mad about my research on the page for some reason? In any case another user reverted it, and it's fixed now. :) NekomancerJaidyn (talk) [she/her] 00:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nekomancerjade: Thank you, I'll review it soon. Didn't look at history, obvious vandalism indeed. Doubt it's a Polish nationalist, btw, reads more like anti-Polish joe job, but who cares really :P ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:56, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Date, size, refs, copyvio, all good, QPQ presumably not required (but would be appreciated). However I am concerned about the hooks. Main hook is directly contradicted by "Poland was impacted by the plague. Although it lost large amounts of people, in comparison to most other regions it had come out relatively unscathed; only losing a quarter of its' existing population compared to a much larger population decrease in the rest of Europe." ALT1 is better but still, estimates of loosing a quarter of population are not 'mostly unaffected'. Can you propose a more moderate hook, something like "one of the least affected in Europe", perhaps? PS. I also formatted bare URLs ([1]), I highly recommend you install a script like WP:ReFill and do it for your other articles ASAP. There is still a PDF to be formatted, and for best practices, please ensure all references have date, author, and publisher - refill may not always scrape that data, some requires manual input. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:56, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nekomancerjade: re above. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@Piotrus: Sorry for the late response! Fair point, I changed the first hook to "one of the places in Europe least affected by the Black Death". Do you think that would fit as a hook better? NekomancerJaidyn (talk) [she/her] 07:01, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Nekomancerjade, Yes, I think this is more accurate.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

How DYK?

How did this get to DYK with so many poorly and inconsistently formatted references? But it is an interesting article.70.161.8.90 (talk) 23:10, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

How did this get published?

Why is this article seemingly so poorly written? After reading the annals written by Jan Długosz himself, it is said that the black death reached Poland in 1349, not 1351, also many Polish people apparently died from this and upwards of 20,000 in Crakow (Kraków). This article seems very misleading and many of the sources cited are not scholarly. I can't confirm whether the lack of decrease in shares of pollen is even true because the link sends me to an rudimentary web article which does not redirect to a scholarly paper. I also can't confirm whether Casimir III actually did close the borders or not because the source given is terrible.

Also the wording needs to be changed to "Poland was still significantly impacted by the Black death, but had less deaths comparatively to the rest of Europe", because I was falsely lead to believe that Poland had almost no deaths, when now I realize almost a quarter of their population was lost.

My recommendation is please find better sources and change the page to be more honest. I might do some of this myself but someone else should try to figure out the pollen claim because I don't know where to look for that. 2607:FEA8:2901:C00:F0C8:C92A:9CA5:C47D (talk) 18:43, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

You seem to base your opinion on a primary source (and one that was written a hundred years after the events it describes) but editors' interpretations of primary sources have no bearing - see WP:PRIMARY. The article seems consistent with the mainstream scholarly view of the impact on Poland - see this. If you have alternative scholarly sources please cite them so they can be reviewed. DeCausa (talk) 20:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)