Talk:Bjorn Kristensen (footballer, born 1993)

Name

Dear GiantSnowman. This edit is weird. His name is Bjørn, as spelled in Danish, due to the fact he is half Danish, which his own Facebook-page also shows, and it is also shown in the media.. I expect to undo the aforementioned edit in a few days, if not done by you (or any other) before. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 08:45, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

References

@Tøndemageren: please use WP:RM to open a move discussion. GiantSnowman 09:24, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: - i'm not trying to get the article moved. I do not care if the article is placed on Bjorn - but his name in the article should be the correct one, so if he himself uses "Bjørn" as evident in his Facebook-page, then this article should use that name too. And even if I was trying to get the article moved, you should still respond to what I was writing above here, instead of placing a generic message. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 09:44, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

If his name is spelt 'Bjørn Kristensen' then the article prose and title should reflect that. Whilst the article title is at 'Bjorn Kristensen', that is how we spell it in the body. See also WP:COMMONNAME. GiantSnowman 09:50, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

I do know this - but again, the real spelling of the name should also be a part of the article, which it currently isn't. How do you purpose we include the name then? As I see fx Bill Clinton his real name is mentioned as the first thing in the article, as well as his full name in the infobox. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 10:11, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

This is not a case of 'real name' - it is a case of spelling/orthography... GiantSnowman 10:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

You could argue that - or you could argue that he is known as "Bjorn", but in reality his name is "Bjørn". As far as I can see, he is known as Bjorn, which is why I would not recommend moving the article, but his real name is Bjørn. So I do not see it as a case of spelling. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 10:45, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Well then it remains at 'Bjorn' then... GiantSnowman 10:48, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: Well, no it does not remain Bjorn, as his real name is Bjørn, which should figure from the article. How do you get to that conclusion at all? Bill Clinton is also known as that, but his real name is still mentioned - please clarify you way to that conclusion. Otherwise I will have to revert you edit. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 13:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't know how much clearer I can get. Our spelling of the name should be reflected in the article title. If the article is at 'Bjorn', we use 'Bjorn' - if it is at 'Bjørn' then we use 'Bjørn'. Also do not revert, see WP:BRD. I again repeat my suggestion you try a WP:RM if 'Bjørn' is his "real name" as you keep saying (baffling, given that they are the same name, it's just speling/orthography issues...) GiantSnowman 14:48, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

I does not make sense at all, what you are saying. What you are saying right now, is that you do not want the correct spelling of his name, to figure in the article. I know you are the original creator of the article, so I do think, that you see this as a small attack on you. Be sure, it is not an attack on you. What I do not understand, is why on Earth, the correct spelling of his name, should be a part of the article? Why should the correct spelling be the reason for a move-request, when he is known under the name "Bjorn"? In all other articles, the real name (spelling or otherwise) is mentioned as the first thing in the article, and as the full name in the infobox. Why are you resisting this now? I will still revert you edit (has nothing to do with WP:BRD - what I think you are thinking of is WP:Edit warring, which I think you will be guilty of, but that is another discussion), and I will put sources on. If you revert that again, I seriously doubt if you are able to be objective in this matter. Please be aware, that you at the moment, are defending the omission on correct data, which can be back up by trustworthy references. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 05:46, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

For the last time, have a RM to prove the correct spelling of 'Bjørn' and then we will move the article accordingly. For your Clinton example, 'Bill' is a common nickname of the proper name of 'William' - that does not apply to 'Bjorn/Bjørn'...also, as a last piece of advice, I would suggest you desist from threatening to edit war... GiantSnowman 07:58, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I am not threatening to do an edit war - I'm suggesting that, it was what you were thinking of. You said I shouldn't revert your edit because of WP:BRD, which made not sense (you could have explained what you meant by it btw). Besides that, and for the last time, I am not suggesting moving the article. What I'm suggesting, is to place the right spelling of his name into the article too - along with the incorrect, but more known Bjorn. It is too common, for foreigners to misspell Danish names ved an Æ, Ø og Å. Examples could be Nicolai Jorgensen and Rolf Sorensen - in these two cases though, they are not known by the misspelling. But in all three cases the correct name should be a part of the article. If you disagree with that, please make you case as to why the correct spelling shouldn't be a part of the article. So far, all you have done, has been refuting it to be there (without any reason) and suggesting to make a motion to move the article all together. Please, GiantSnowman - make your case as to why the correct spelling should not be a part of the article. When you have done that, I will contact a neutral admin, to be the judge of the next move in this case. If you decide not to make your case (in any way) then I will insert the correct name in the article again, with sources. I hope to see a progression in these talks now. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 09:07, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

But you haven't proved/got consensus that 'Bjørn' is the correct spelling - this is the English-language Wikipedia and per WP:COMMONNAME we use spellings "as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources". All the English-language sources currently on the article spell it 'Bjorn' - hence that is the name of the article and the spelling therein. GiantSnowman 09:11, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I have now made a request on WP:3O. And by the way, if his own official Facebook-page spells it "Bjørn", I would say it is pretty good proof, that it is the correct way of spelling it (see earlier). And so is the interview in the Danish media, as referenced earlier. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 09:21, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Since when was the Danish media the "English-language sources" required by WP:COMMONNAME? GiantSnowman 09:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

You are talking about the name of the article - which I'm not. Please stop the nonsense-argumentation - it is illogical and not to the point, and you are cherry-picking when you only choose to look at some of the evidence. Can we please discuss whether or not the correct spelling of his name should be used in the article - not as the articles name. I have given you enough sources to prove, that his name are spelled with an Ø - but I have also agreed that the article shouldn't be moved from its current place (which I never advocated for anyway), as this is not the name/spelling he is known as. But that does not mean that the correct spelling should not be mentioned in the article. So I urge you again, to please make your case as to why the correct spelling of his name, shouldn't be mentioned in the article (and again, I am not talking about the article name). Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 10:28, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, and now I can see at WP:3O that you think the discussion is about how his name is spelt. Again, please look at his own Facebook-profile - he himself, spells it with an Ø. So no, it is not a discussion as to how his name is spelt. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 10:31, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Just found out, the first sources used in the article, actually also uses the spelling "Bjørn" - and that was his club at the time. So again, not discussing how his name is spelt - that should be pretty clear by now. We are discussion whether or not the correct spelling should be part of the article. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 11:10, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

No, no, NO - this is a spelling dispute - is his name spelt 'Bjorn' or 'Bjørn', based on "English-language sources" as required by WP:COMMONNAME? If the former, then the article should remain where it is, and the uses of his name should be 'Bjorn' - if the latter then it should be moved to Bjørn Kristensen (footballer, born 1993) to reflect that. Why can't you see? Competence is required...GiantSnowman 11:26, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

Per WP:UEIA, both spellings should be included in the first line of the article. Since there does not appear to be a dispute about the article name itself, I will refrain from comment on that matter. Anaxial (talk) 11:42, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Good suggestion, thanks. GiantSnowman 11:45, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Good suggestion? This is what I have been trying to say all along - jesus haha. But thanks Anaxial for the response - I'm glad what I've been trying to do all along, will be done now. Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 12:13, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Respectfully, at no point did you suggest we use both...anyway, glad it's resolved now, better late than never! GiantSnowman 12:16, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: I say this with as much respect as I have left for you right now, but what a load of... If you read it again, you will see that I did: "but again, the real spelling of the name should also be a part of the article" and "What I'm suggesting, is to place the right spelling of his name into the article too - along with the incorrect, but more known Bjorn". Kind regards Tøndemageren (talk) 12:50, 25 July 2018 (UTC)