Talk:Betacoronavirus 1

Illustration of Betacoronavirus 1

Illustration of a virus of the subgenus Embecovirus

@Awkwafaba: Hi Awkwafaba. The image that you're removing is an illustration of a coronavirus of the genus Betacoronavirus (group 2), subgenus Embecovirus (subgroup A). Therefore the image will also be an image of a virus of the species Betacoronavirus 1. I've changed the caption slightly so that the generic nature is made clear let me know what you think. --Guest2625 (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Guest2625: Embecovirus is not monotypic and contains not just the species Betacoronavirus 1, but also China Rattus coronavirus HKU24, Human coronavirus HKU1, and Murine coronavirus. If I find an image of a dog and label it "mammal" that does not mean I can add it to the articles for bats and pigs. What indication do you have that this illustration is not one of the other species in Embecovirus? I also cannot find the source on the CDC site for the illustration to verify that the image is even of Embecovirus. The link specified does not display the actual source nor the species pictured. Could you point me to this information? --awkwafaba (📥) 20:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Awkwafaba:This a generic illustration of any cornavirus of the genus Betacoronavirus (group 2), subgenus Embecovirus (subgroup A). The reason I know this is because of the labeling. Note that this illustration shows the Spike glycoprotein (S), M-protein (M), Hemmaggluttinin (HE), envelope, E-protein(E), RNA and N-protein. Those are the only features of this illustration.

If I had a box that said warm blooded animals, inside that box, I could find your dog and also bats and some pigs. In this case, I have a box that has the labels (Everything with: Spike glycoprotein (S), M-protein (M), Hemmaggluttinin (HE), envelope, E-protein(E), RNA and N-protein). In that box, I could find your Betacoronavirus 1, China Rattus coronavirus HKU24, and Human coronavirus HKU1. And for clarification, the box in this case is the illustration with its labels.

This reference states that Embecoviruses have the HE-protein, S-protein, E-protein, an envelope, RNA and N-protein. This is just as in the labeled diagram above. Let me know if you need more clarification. Here is that reference.— Preceding unsigned comment added by an unknown user

@Guest2625: generic diagrams do not belong in the taxobox. That is for pictures of that specific clade. If i go to the bat article, I do not expect to see it represented by a generic image of a warm-blooded animals. Also that reference you mention above has no relation to that image, it is WP:SYNTH. The image needs a source that shows the actual image, and not just describes aspects similar to the image. --awkwafaba (📥) 22:54, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

@Awkwafaba: I agree with you in general as to what is the standard procedure for taxoboxes. For the taxoboxes, it is best procedure to have an actual image of a species (tiger), or a set of images of some members of a higher clade (chordate). However, note in that collage for phylum chordate that in the lower left hand corner there is in fact a diagram. Also, you have been talking about taxoboxes; however, this is a virus infobox which has different standard procedures. If you look at the higheest order article, you have viruses. In that infobox, you do in fact see a generic model of a virus. In virus infoboxes, I agree with you that it is best practice for the low-level article to have an actual scanning electron micrograph of the virus (HIV); however, if that is not possible than a generic representative illustration of the virus as was the case with the lower left image in chordate is ok. For the higher class virus articles (Retroviridae), generic illustrations are preferable in the infobox, since making generic virus images is easy and standard practice in the field. And lastly, understanding a simple diagram with seven clear labels is like understanding that the sky is blue. --Guest2625 (talk) 08:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@Guest2625: WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and two wrongs don't make a right. Also, {{virusbox}} is a taxobox. The main point is that there is nothing stating that this file is anything other than SARS-CoV-2, which is not an Embecovirus. I found no other information on ScientificIllustrations.com. --awkwafaba (📥) 15:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

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