Talk:André Kertész

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Expansion:

Hi everyone! As you may know, this page is going major rennovations. I'd like for nobody to revert/ alter things until I'm done, but that isn't going to be for a while, so I doubt this will happen. I can only get the book once a week for a couple of days, so bear with me, but I should be done in a few weeks... Cheers, Spawn Man 04:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, as you may have noticed, the expansions are over. :) Spawn Man 02:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Repetition

I don't have time to do it right now, but much of the article could be pruned down to achieve better readability and concision. It seems that we are told over and over again that Kertész didn't find the reception he hoped for and that he was disappointed by this fact. By the end it gets to be a bit much. A number of other facts are stated multiple time when once would suffice. As a guideline for future development, reducing the verbosity and repetition should be considered. If I have time I may take a stab at some of this, but it's unlikely I could do it for some time.

-Fenevad (talk) 11:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to remove date-autoformatting

Dear fellow contributors

MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.

There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:

Disadvantages of date-autoformatting

• (1) In-house only

• (a) It works only for the WP "elite".
• (b) To our readers out there, it displays all-too-common inconsistencies in raw formatting in bright-blue underlined text, yet conceals them from WPians who are logged in and have chosen preferences.
• (c) It causes visitors to query why dates are bright-blue and underlined.

• (2) Avoids what are merely trivial differences

• (a) It is trivial whether the order is day–month or month–day. It is more trivial than color/colour and realise/realize, yet our consistency-within-article policy on spelling (WP:ENGVAR) has worked very well. English-speakers readily recognise both date formats; all dates after our signatures are international, and no one objects.

• (3) Colour-clutter: the bright-blue underlining of all dates

• (a) It dilutes the impact of high-value links.
• (b) It makes the text slightly harder to read.
• (c) It doesn't improve the appearance of the page.

• (4) Typos and misunderstood coding

• (a) There's a disappointing error-rate in keying in the auto-function; not bracketing the year, and enclosing the whole date in one set of brackets, are examples.
• (b) Once autoformatting is removed, mixtures of US and international formats are revealed in display mode, where they are much easier for WPians to pick up than in edit mode; so is the use of the wrong format in country-related articles.
• (c) Many WPians don't understand date-autoformatting—in particular, how if differs from ordinary linking; often it's applied simply because it's part of the furniture.

• (5) Edit-mode clutter

• (a) It's more work to enter an autoformatted date, and it doesn't make the edit-mode text any easier to read for subsequent editors.

• (6) Limited application

• (a) It's incompatible with date ranges ("January 3–9, 1998", or "3–9 January 1998", and "February–April 2006") and slashed dates ("the night of May 21/22", or "... 21/22 May").
• (b) By policy, we avoid date autoformatting in such places as quotations; the removal of autoformatting avoids this inconsistency.

Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. Does anyone object if I remove it from the main text (using a script) in a few days’ time on a trial basis? The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 14:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Make more concise

Editing for concision, deletion of OPED language, removal of redundant statements, etc.Parkwells (talk) 16:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Possible error in regard to family

It is stated in the article that André was the brother of Imre Kertész, the Nobel laureate. I believe this is a mistake; I.K. the Nobel laureate was born in 1929; the brother Imre can be seen on some of André's photos from the Hungarian Period, i.e. before 1925. Also, André's father died in 1908, the mother, a old woman as can be seen on pictures made in the early Twenties, died in 1933, making it highly unlikely that she could have been the mother to Imre Kertész, the Nobel laureate, born in '29.

I don't want to delete that part myself because I'm very new and unsure, but I'd be happy about a feedback (or a foundation for the claim that André Kertész's brother Imre and the Nobel laureate Imre Kertész are actually the same person). Dudley Heinsbergen (talk) 22:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I think the correct behavior for unsourced, highly improbable claims is to remove them. I just did this with the assertion that his birth name was Kohn. No other Wikipedia has this, and it was introduced by an IP whose only other edit was to insert another Jewish-sounding birth name into an article. The other edit seems factual, but it still makes me wonder as to that IP's motivation.--88.73.49.139 (talk) 14:45, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:André Kertész/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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General I'm not a big fan of massive number of references to a book as a whole. I favor a style more similar to, e.g., Ine of Wessex, if only because it becomes very hard to find the right link back toward the top of the article after the fifth. However, I won't impose it if it would be too inconveniencing; an option is to use chapters instead of specific page numbers. The article is only divided by his biography. I think a good general analysis of his artistic work and influence is also needed.  Done Intro During the earlier years of his career which spanned for more than 70 years, his then-unorthodox camera angles, which hindered prose descriptions of his works, and his unwillingness to compromise his personal photographic style prevented his work from gaining wider recognition, as well as his use of symbolism which also became unfashionable later in his life. This sentence is far too long and quickly gets clunky. The last part in particular makes almost no sense which spanned for more than 70 years Drop "for" Done It's not clear whether that refers to "earlier years" or to his career as a whole The lead as too much as a synthesis of his artistic work (symbolism is not mentioned any where else in the article!) and not enough has a summary of his biography and career. It needs an almost complete rewrite: If you need so many references for stuff other than quotes, you have a problem (I'm the school that tries to keep refs in the lead to a minimum) Several elements could be used to make a legacy/impact section as I suggested above. Hungarian period for a competition in the magazine Borsszem Janko, which he failed to win. How is it relevant to specifically say that he failed to win? Why mention that he didn't win a all? Should he have been expected to win? Consider dropping the last bit.  Done French period In 1930, Kertész was awarded a silver medal for services to photography at the Exposition Coloniale in Paris where he attended. The only "Exposition Coloniale" in Paris at the time was the Paris Colonial Exposition, but that was in 1931. Maybe double-check that. Oh, and drop the scare quotes. That's the name. Italics are enough. Done the Keystone agency owned by Erney Prince. Look at Keystone to see whether we have something to link here?  Done There's no current article to link to. The closest are Keystone Studios & Keystone Camera Company, but neither of them are the one mentioned - the name could have possibly changed...? - Spawn Man Later life At his Venice exhibition he was awarded a gold medal for his dedication to the photographic industry, a feeling of recognition he had never felt whilst working for House and Garden. Extremely clunky. Not sure what you mean. References I've tentatively placed Greenough, Gurbo & Kennel as a "general" reference. If that is incorrect and the book was notactually used as a reference, then the header should be "Further reading". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Circeus (talk • contribs) 19:10, August 28, 2007 (UTC)  Done Yep, was further reading. - Spawn Man

Last edited at 14:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 07:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.artinfo.com/galleryguide/13017/1522/120217/bruce-silverstein-new-york/exhibition/andr-kertsz-in-the-depths-of-winter/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131212110547/http://www.dia.org/calendar/exhibition.aspx?id=2308 to http://www.dia.org/calendar/exhibition.aspx?id=2308
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110523081259/http://www.artpaperinvitations.com:80/2010/10/andre-kertesz-city-views-bruce.html to http://www.artpaperinvitations.com/2010/10/andre-kertesz-city-views-bruce.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121414405800/http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/exhibitions/hungarian-photography/ to http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/exhibitions/hungarian-photography/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140528193220/http://www.fcamberes.org/actividades/exp/exp_2011_andre_kertesz.htm to http://www.fcamberes.org/actividades/exp/exp_2011_andre_kertesz.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131215020025/http://www.eu2011.hu/news/andre-kertesz-madrid to http://www.eu2011.hu/news/andre-kertesz-madrid
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131211030445/http://www.hnm.hu/en/kiall/Exhibition.php?ID=78038 to http://www.hnm.hu/en/kiall/Exhibition.php?ID=78038
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131211030552/http://www.hnm.hu/hu/kiall/Exhibition.php?ID=77841 to http://www.hnm.hu/hu/kiall/Exhibition.php?ID=77841
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101126150239/http://photography-now.net/andre_kertesz/index.html to http://photography-now.net/andre_kertesz/index.html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://forum.wgbh.org/wgbh/forum.php?search=hungarian&x=0&y=0
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131218152337/http://www.bulgergallery.com/ to http://www.bulgergallery.com

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External link to Kati Marton's lecture

The current revision has a dead link to Kati Marton's lecture, pointing to forums.wgbh.org. WGBH themselves posted the video to YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcjmBOSt63U, but my simple attempt to fix got, naturally, reverted by XLinkBot. I read through the policies on linking to YouTube and this may be a valid use; if someone with more experience agrees, can you push through the edit? Pcherna (talk) 01:16, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

FAR Notice

Planning on taking this to FAR in its current condition. There are sentences that are completely uncited. As well, the prose is not at all up to standard and needs a rewrite. GamerPro64 06:45, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Hungarians?

Man Ray and Germaine Krull weren’t Hungarian, so the way they’re mentioned (in an ungrammatical sentence) as a coda to a list of Hungarians, and along with another Hungarian, is misleading. It’s not clear what the author intended. 94.173.211.41 (talk) 19:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)