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Talk:Amnesiac (album)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

External links modified

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External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Orphaned references in Amnesiac (album)

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Amnesiac (album)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "KENT":

  • From OK Computer: Kent, Nick (July 1997), "Press your space next to mine, love", Mojo
  • From Radiohead: Kent, Nick (1 June 2001). "Happy now?". Mojo.
  • From Colin Greenwood: Kent, Nick (1 June 2001). "Happy Now?". MOJO. Retrieved 2007-03-26.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 06:30, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

Latest comment: 9 years ago30 comments3 people in discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Amnesiac (album)/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MusikAnimal (talk · contribs) 02:28, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

3+ months is long enough! I will take on this review. Admittedly I may be terribly slow with it... please allow up to 10 days. I may make changes along the way and post updates here. Feel free to address any concerns as they arise. Cheers — MusikAnimal talk 02:28, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This list will be updated as the review progresses. See below for details of any concerns. Thanks for your patience!
  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:  
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:  
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:  
    B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:  
    C. No original research:  
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:  
    B. Focused:  
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:  
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:  
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:  
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:  
Concerns
  •  Y Skimming though the article, I'm a little concerned about WP:QUOTEFARM. Quotes are helpful to understand the viewpoint of artist, but I feel two or more per paragraph may take away from the concept of prose. Thoughts? — MusikAnimal talk 03:27, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
    Yeah, I can see in the Background and recording and especially the Music and lyrics sections that the quotes are abundant. I'll see if I can shorten it so that there's both important info and is told through short sentences without the need of quotes. DepressedPer (talk) 04:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
    I've removed a few more of the quotes. Popcornduff (talk) 18:26, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
    I think we're mostly okay with the quotes. The remaining ones seem relevant and read nicely. However to me it's not very clear what Ed is trying to say in Background and recording, "The tendency with a double album is...". Is it that if they had done a double album, they would have omitted some tracks that instead became Amnesiac? Perhaps this one is better put it in our own words.
    Done.Popcornduff (talk) 10:56, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y I've found the SPIN review in Google Books but I'm finding it difficult to cite it without making it awkward when viewers click on the link. DepressedPer (talk) 03:00, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
    I'm not sure if I know what you mean. Does the footnote itself look off? I recommend Apoc2400's Google Books citation tool. — MusikAnimal talk 03:28, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
    I got it fixed. Thanks for the citation tool. DepressedPer (talk) 18:06, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y The Commercial performance section is rather short. Maybe we could merge it in the with Reception section? — MusikAnimal talk 03:41, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
    Good idea, done. Popcornduff (talk) 10:03, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
  • From Kid A#Marketing and release it looks like there was a tour associated with the two albums. MOS:ALBUM suggests a tour section between the artwork/packaging and reception sections, but we may not have enough content to warrant that. Instead, maybe we could make note of it in the background section. — MusikAnimal talk 05:03, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
    Actually, the Amnesiac and Kid A tours were separate, but I can't find any sources to back that up... Popcornduff (talk) 18:57, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
    I've found a few sources that may be of help: ABC News, Rolling Stone, LA Times. If we can gather enough information, I think a dedicated section for the tour is preferred. Otherwise we need to at least make mention of the tour, and the Background section seems the most fitting. — MusikAnimal talk 16:25, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
    A few more sources: idobi.com, Chicago Tribune. From this I can't gather when the end tour ended, but maybe there's some more relevant information in there. If after repeated attempts we are unable to verify when the end of the tour is, it's ok by me to omit it. That being said, I'm going to look over the article again in full. I think it is very close to passing :) — MusikAnimal talk 03:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y In the Music and lyrics section "The ninth track, "Hunting Bears"" is unsourced. Picky, I know, and hopefully not a WP:BLUE-like request, but obviously we prefer everything to be verifiable. I tried to find a source describing the song to no avail :( — MusikAnimal talk 18:33, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
    I searched around but can't find anything we can use either. I have to confess I find describing songs and music in Wikipedia extremely difficult for this reason. For example, Pyramid Song is a piano ballad, plain and simple, and that's a really useful and clear piece of information to put in the article, but it requires finding some critic or something to have used the same description. What a pain in the ass! Popcornduff (talk) 18:57, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
    I agree that it's pretty frustrating. I stroke luck and found this Google Book that covered "Hunting Bears" in detail. Not sure if we were aware of this book already, but it seems to offer copious amounts of information on this album. Feel free to expand on the article with this newfound resource, but as far as the review is concerned I think we've covered the major aspects (3A), with exception of the tour (see above). — MusikAnimal talk 15:52, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y Any opposition toward using the {{album chart}} template in the Charts section? I'm happy to do this if no one else is up for it. — MusikAnimal talk 16:30, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
    I've gone ahead and done this. — MusikAnimal talk 02:24, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y I noticed the lead makes mention that the lyrics and artwork "explore themes of memory and reincarnation". I don't see anything about memory or reincarnation in the body of the article. Are there particular songs that fit this description? Do we have a source to support this? — MusikAnimal talk 03:16, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Really? In the current article is this quote from Thom Yorke: "I read that the gnostics believe when we are born we are forced to forget where we have come from in order to deal with the trauma of arriving in this life. I thought this was really fascinating. It's like the river of forgetfulness." Also Pyramid Song being inspired by "ideas of cyclical time discussed by Stephen Hawkins and Buddhism." Also Morning Bell/Amnesiac "sounds like a recurring dream." And the artwork: "We wanted it to be a like a book. And someone made these pages in a book and it went into drawer in a desk and was forgotten about in the attic. And the attic was then forgotten." Popcornduff (talk) 09:46, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
If you don't think all that supports the claim then just delete it from the lead, it's not critical. Popcornduff (talk) 09:54, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. Makes perfect sense... — MusikAnimal talk 14:55, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
  •  Y The Donwood quotes in the Art and packaging don't appear to be in the linked source. Looks like the source is the third page of the interview, and the quotes we want are probably within the other two, but Wayback Machine doesn't have a record of them :( I'm not sure what to do here, as these are direct quotes so it is fairly important to have a verifiable source. When I searched for the quote I got only other wiki's and blogs... Is there a print copy of this interview somewhere? Or maybe other internet archiving services have records of the first two pages of the interview. — MusikAnimal talk 15:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
After much digging around, I found it archived. This is now fixed. (Man, this is much tougher than any other GA I've gone through...) Popcornduff (talk) 16:53, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I am admittedly pretty strict, but per WP:MINREF the quotes must be attributed to a reliable source, GA or not. Worry not, we're about done here. Just want to do another run through. Thanks again for your patience! — MusikAnimal talk 17:28, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


 Y @DepressedPer: @Popcornduff: I apologize for the lengthy review. All issues appear to have been addressed, and I hereby pass this good article nomination. Congratulations! — MusikAnimal talk 03:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Great! I appreciate your thoroughness. I wrote most of the current article myself a couple of years ago, so it's nice to finally see it become GA.
Now, if you're feeling brave, have a look at the Hail to the Thief page... can we get that to FA? ;) Popcornduff (talk) 10:17, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Not sure if I am the right person to ask... I have slim to no experience reviewing FA's. I recommend submitting for a peer review. Going to close this review as we're all done here :) Best of luck on future endeavours! — MusikAnimal talk 18:55, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Collectors Edition

Latest comment: 11 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

There's a 2 disc Collectors Edition of Amnesiac [http://www.amazon.com/Amnesiac-Collectors-Edition-Radiohead/dp/B002BF96IY available], with 15 extra tracks on the second CD. I'd add it to the article myself but I don't know the standard format. nagualdesign (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

This should be added, yeah. Try copying/rewriting the text used on the OKC/HTTT pages. I should have done it but for some reason I haven't got round to it (same goes for rewriting the reaction section). Popcornduff (talk) 18:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
This has now been added. We could do with some stuff on charts/commercial performance if anyone's up to it.Popcornduff (talk) 14:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Nice one. :) Kind regards, nagualdesign (talk) 17:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments1 person in discussion
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Amnesiac (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rp0211 (talk · contribs) 17:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):  
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):  
    b (citations to reliable sources):  
    c (OR):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):  
    b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  


Infobox

  • No issues

Lead

  • Amnesiac is the fifth studio album by English rock band Radiohead, produced by Nigel Godrich and released in June 2001 on Parlophone. → Opening sentence should only include information about what studio album number it is and who it is for ("Amnesiac is the fifth studio album by English rock band Radiohead.")
  • Amnesiac debuted at #1 on the UK Albums Chart and #2 on the US Billboard 200. → Change "#1" and #2" to "number one" and "number two"
  • ...and released in June 2001 on Parlophone. → Write full release date, and change "Parlophone" to "Parlophone Records"
  • In 2012, Rolling Stone ranked the album #320 in their updated version of The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. → Change "#320" to "number 320"
  • Expand this lead section to include things like international chart information, critical reception, reissue, etc.

Recording and relation to Kid A

  • Change section name to "Background and recording"

Music and lyrics

  • An extended version of the track was released as a B-side for the "Knives Out" single. → Verifiable?

Art and packaging

  • No issues

Reception

"...many considered it inferior to its sister album Kid A." Source? (I ask because I considered it then, and still do, as superior. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I have zero stats to back up either assertion and therefore believe the author to be imparting opinion in place of what should be only fact.)71.202.118.211 (talk)

Track listing

  • Source needed to verify this information

Personnel

  • Source needed to verify this information

Chart positions

  • Fix table to make sure all are in alphabetical order and that the positions are centered in the column

References

  • OVERALL MESSAGE WITH THIS SECTION: Proofread these references to fix the mistakes; I listed issues I could find with the first sixteen as a guide.
  • Reference 1 → Include publisher of Chicago Tribune
  • Reference 3 → Include record label
  • Reference 4 → "Rolling Stone magazine" should just be "Rolling Stone"; Publisher of magazine is needed
  • Reference 6 → Include "Viacom" as publisher
  • Reference 7 → Include "Bauer Media Group" as publisher
  • Reference 8 → Publisher needed
  • References 10, 16 → Follow archive format for references
  • References 12, 14 → Follow reference formatting for written publications


After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have decided to put it on hold at this time. There are a few prose and citation issues, but the biggest issue is the reference formatting. I will give you the general seven days to fix these mistakes and/or address ones you believe do not concern good article status. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask and I will be more than happy to help. Rp0211 (talk2me) 17:56, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Since all of the issues have not been addressed and it has been more than the seven days granted to fix the mistakes, I am forced to fail the article at this time. Once these issues are addressed, however, you are more than welcome to nominate the article again. Rp0211 (talk2me) 23:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

Latest comment: 12 years ago5 comments5 people in discussion
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved for astonishment and long-term significance, but it was close call. -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


Amnesiac → Amnesiac (album) — the primary use and most prominent educational use of this is a person suffering from amnesia, so it should redirect there. A hatnote can be added to amnesia to cover the album. 70.24.251.71 (talk) 08:31, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose as unnecessary precision. There is no confict between article titles and no evidence that most people searching for or linking to "Amnesiac" (as opposed to "amnesia") are expecting something other than the popular album - this article has a couple hundred incoming links and had 26,000 views last month, which is in line with or less than other Radiohead albums,[1][2] indicating most readers are not landing here by mistake. Any possible confusion is easily handled by the hatnote in place. Station1 (talk) 09:36, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Support as per the nominator. The concept of amnesiac will continue its significance, while as time goes on the album will fade in importance. I barely resist the urge to make some pun about its being forgotten. Many of the incoming links are via Template:Radiohead, which can easily be changed. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 00:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Support – Considering the principle of least astonishment, "amnesiac" should point to the eponymous meaning, not the derived. Re the unnecessary precision argument, what WP:PRECISE actually says is, "when a topic's... name... is ambiguous... and... not primary, that name cannot be used and so must be disambiguated." In a worldwide context, I would think that the condition would be the primary meaning, but certainly not the artwork title, so the artwork title should be disambiguated. ENeville (talk) 17:21, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Like Spinning Plates" and "You And Whose Army"

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I removed the wiki-internal link for "Like Spinning Plates", because clicking it simply returns the viewer to the article for Amnesiac. However I'd like to note here that I think "Like Spinning Plates" deserves its own page, as it has a pretty unique structure. I don't actually know how to do that (since it automatically redirects), so I just thought I'd note it here. 76.167.253.199 (talk) 07:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

"You And Whose Army" is a classic and fan favorite and receives enough attention from fans where I'm sure they'd pick it as the most deserving non single from Amnesiac to have an article.

Neither song deserves its own page as they don't meet notability requirements. They weren't singles and haven't received enough attention from reputable sources to otherwise to be significant. If you want to create a page for either song, you must provide trustworthy citations demonstrating their notability. Popcornduff (talk) 17:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

8 Outtakes

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Where did the specific page for this EP go? Granted it was basically only released to radio stations and is so rare it is practically non-existent (no copies on ebay, for example), but it a least deserves a mention under 'B sides'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.31.70 (talk) 21:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Grammatical edits, vague statements removed, prose improved

Since GeneralCheese marked my edits as vandalism, I thought I'd create this section to point a few things out:

(i) There are two sections entitled "Reception", both focusing on the same aspect of the album in question. Only one is needed.
(ii) The sentence: "Like Spinning Plates" was particularly noted for being a departure from the song's studio version, makes no mention of who noted it. I at least now show how it's different and provide a link to the single.
(iii) The following is not neutral, lacks citations and includes what is possibly original research: While Kid A garnered much critical attention, Amnesiac is sometimes viewed as the less accomplished of the two works.[citation needed] Although the album garnered a generally positive critical reception, it has been criticised for a lack of cohesion.[citation needed] Some critics and fans even refer to this fragmentation as a deliberate device used by Radiohead to escape the formula of their previous work.
(iv) The sentence: The album is something of a fan favorite; Amnesiac managed to receive universal acclaim upon release, and was ranked as one of the best albums of the year by countless publications, is a statement concerning critical reception, which is precisely what the statement under the original heading should be about. In other words: repetition. In addition, which fans, whose favourite is it, and where is the citation or poll data?

Christgau reviews

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have started a discussion at Talk:OK Computer regarding the removal of the Christgau review templates. Please discuss the matter there. Papa November (talk) 23:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Modeselektor

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Removed the reference about Modeselektor being an inspiration for Thom on Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors. Modeselektor made their first release one year after Amnesiac was released. - ZEROpumpkins (talk) 04:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Latest comment: 17 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

why is this labeled art rock and EXPERIMENTAL??? it gives radiohead way to much credit, this is just beats and electro stuff your talkin about, that doesnt make it arty Would a disambiguation notice be in order? With a link to dissociative amnesia? Except that's rather a non-article right now so it may not be worth it -- sannse 15:57 Mar 29, 2003 (UTC)

done. Angela 18:13, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

This is a concept album? What's the concept? Everyking 06:33, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious? All the songs have the theme "We couldn't fit these on Kid A"....no, seriously, there really isn't one, but some fans have tried to link it up with the Kid A concept. --MockTurtle 23:22, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I removed the concept album bit a little while ago because I don't think there is one. If someone wanted to make a case for it, though, I suppose they could add it back in some form. Everyking 00:02, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Just in regards to Christgau's review: His star system is a bit weird, since it isn't out of 5, and is part of his Letter grading system.-- Weebot


How the hell is this album jazz-inspired? The only slightly jazzy track is the last one. I took that part out.

^ | I have no idea when the above comment was made, but it is still wrong. The rhythm section in Pyramid Song, Knives Out and Dollars and Cents (the first two actually being the album's singles) is blatantly jazz-inspired, and You and Whose Army uses a jazz style string bass. The last track on the album (Life in a Glasshouse) is not "slightly jazzy", it is a wholesale appropriation of New Orleans/trad jazz style, actually using well known British jazz players- Radiohead doesn't even PLAY on the track, apart from Thom Yorke singing. Besides, your or my subjective feeling about the album's jazz inspiration or lack thereof would be original research. The album was often noted as being partially jazz inspired in reviews, and this is because the band themselves described jazz, particularly Mingus, as a major influence on songs like Pyramid Song. Certain Mingus songs might not sound much like "jazz" to you either, I'm guessing, like the ones where people sing/shout or there's handclaps (these being the inspiration). It is certainly appropriate under these circumstances for Wikipedia to note the album's otherwise widely noted jazz inspiration, without going to such an extreme as classing its genre as jazz or anything (that would only apply partly to the final track, as you said). 172.144.0.252 13:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


Anyone else think hunting bears sounds like the musi on ecco the dolphin(on sega mega drive)?


Some possible additional information for the article: For the Music and Lyrics section:

The second song on Amnesiac, “Pyramid Song”, actually originated in 1999 under the name “Nothing to Fear” during the Tibetan Freedom Festival before the album was even released. This was a track they played live before ever polishing it in the recording studio. The title then changed to “Egyptian Song” and in 2001 became known as “Pyramid Song”. In 2001 Courtney Reimer of MTV News compares this track to The Beatles’ “Yesterday” because of the orchestral element of “Pyramid Song” that features quiet piano chords and similarities to a ballad.

According to writer Allan Cross, the fifth song, “I might be wrong”, is inspired by Thom Yorke’s relationship to Rachel Owens whom he considers an important positive influence in his life. In an Interview given to Cross, Yorke says about Rachel’s inspirations that “The song really comes as much from what Rachel was saying to me, like she does all the time: ‘Be proud of what you’ve done. Don’t look back and just carry on like nothing’s happened. Just let the bad stuff go’.” (cross)

For the Recording section:

A noticeable difference in style achieved by recording some tracks in a more traditional group style compared to the studio recordings on Amnesiac. Bassist Colin Greenwood describes the album as a “50-50, it's got more traditional Radiohead-type songs together with more experimental, non-lyrical based instrumental-type stuff as well, and it works as a record in its entirety, which is what we care about. We didn't want to do a double album, with stuff from today as well, because it would have been sort of the boring prog-double album." (Schumacher-Rasmussen)

For a promotion section:

Following Radiohead’s own trend of embracing the digital format of music a program called Active Buddy was introduced to the public at the same time of Amnesiac’s release. Active Buddy delivers band content like music, videos, and exclusive tracks. A capitol Records spokesperson said people would “be able to hear the whole album, download exclusive tracks, watch videos." (Reimer)

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