Talk:Altalena Affair
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NPOV dispute edit
One sided, pro-Irgun account. Needs to be rewritten to take out POV. Sonofzion 01:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- You have to make specific suggestions for change that are actionable within the policies for the tag to be used correctly. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Use more than one source? Writing an article with only book by Begin as a source is biased. Also see paragraph about ultimatum. Sonofzion 21:22, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- there are more sources, including Ben Gurion's diary. in the article itself it's all mentioned. Simply the book was also mentioned in the end. I'm removing the NPOV tag since you didn't seem to move forward with specific WP:RS to contradict something. It's actually pretty balanced as one can see in the aftermath section with mapai opinions stated first. Amoruso 07:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
There is clearly a violation of NPOV here. Don't know enough about the affair to fix it, but there are claims here that presuppose being inside Menachem Begin's mind and being factually certain of his benign intentions. Clearly a NPOV violation. And no point in just fixing the wording there to read "Menachem Begin claims that he sailed to Tel Aviv on the Altalena which still contained part of the weapons shipment only to..." more overall revamping is necessary, bringing in other perspectives on the affair. Will someone please help?
Sorry, if you don't know enough about the affair to fix your allegation, don't make your allegation. Counterboint 03:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
- The Socialists led by Ben-Gurion and the Nationalists led by Begin where in competition for control of Israel. By sinking the ship, Ben-Gurion assured his success at the risk of losing to the Arabs. We cannot know what Begin would have done if he gained the upper hand , but I do not recall that Irgun ever killed Hagana members. Saltysailor (talk) 14:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is less factual than when I commented in 2008. The socialists tried to erase what the Irgun did. I rely on eyewitness accounts. The bottom line is that Ben-Gurion was willing to kill Jews to assure his control of Israel (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.230.101 (talk) 04:59, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
The article needs to be improved, needs more sources. A few newspapers are now re-covering what happened. But need more scholarly sources from both sides. It seems the article is largely pro-Irgun (which may I remind you is legally a terrorist organization as said by the State of Israel itself).Petrous Fire (talk) 08:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
the winners write the history, but the eye witnesses (as long as they live) know Saltysailor (talk) 03:08, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Altalena edit
In case anyone cares, "Altalena" is "Swing" in italian, as in that thing where children play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.66.170 (talk) 20:13, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
edit sorry noticed now that it's under Jabotinsky's article, just ignore me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.66.170 (talk) 20:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Casualties edit
I have added the [citation needed] to the summary of casualties because I have come across a wildly different total: Benjamin Netanyahu (A place among the nations - Israel and the world page 444) has "eighty-two members of the Irgun were killed". Padres Hana (talk) 12:42, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
- Netanyahu is confused, unless you are misreading. 82 is a common figure for the number of people killed in the King David Hotel bombing. As for the Altalena: Morris, 1948, p272: "Altogether eighteen mean died in the clashes, most of them IZL". Katz, Days of FIre (an Irgun memoir), p247: 16 Irgun, 2 Hagana. Perliger, Jewish Terrorism in Israel, p27: 16 Irgun and 2 Hagana. I did see the number of Hagana dead given as 3 in one place, maybe someone died later on. Zerotalk 13:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
External links modified edit
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Aftermath section contradicts Trivia section edit
One of these statements is untrue. Aftermath: The Altalena was eventually found sitting on the seabed several kilometers off the coast of Rishon LeZion at a depth of about 300 meters Trivia: For years after the sinking of the ship, courageous children used to swim towards it, climb aboard and take pieces of ammunition from it home Yonian (talk) 05:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
- The ship was close to shore for about a year before it was towed out and sunk. So children may have swum to it then, but "for years" would be wrong. I deleted this as it is confusing, poorly sourced, and trivia. There is another problem: the article says that the wreck was located in 2012. However, in fact it had not yet been positively identified by 2018. Probably the 2012 event was just a remote detection of a wreck hypothesised to be the Altalena but not identified properly by close-up inspection. This all needs clearing up with a better source. Zerotalk 03:54, 17 October 2021 (UTC)