Talk:African Americans/Archive 9

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Pre-columbian visit??

The only reference for this is aluke is cool!!!!, this section gives the impression that there is much evidence for this. BYU has more evidence that hebrews visited the Americas. This theory is a stretch (to put it lightly). 209.250.215.32 17:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The confusing notion on many American Indians may be part-slaves...or many black Americans may be Indians, whether it's safe for a black American to describe their racial features was from Indians as much for some whites whom appeared "ethnic" or "of color". In the Native Americans in the United States article, there's a relevant paragraph on millions of white/European Americans may invented (or unaware of) a genealogical myth on having "Indian" ancestry, when in fact the high possibility of that person (according to genealogical research and historical details from famous Southern US white plantation families) has "African" or black ancestors. The pre-Columbian African concept is relatively new, because a majority of anthropologists before the 2000's was never concerned on the African racial migration theory. The majority of Native Americans they said by genetic analysis are Asiatic (or "Mongoloid" to mean their ancestors are of Sino-Mongolian/Siberian racial origin), but won't declare any genetic findings came from sub-Saharan Africa (and if they discovered any links to black Africans). We the American people should get over this "I'm white" or "black" or "part-Indian" thing by now, because we can't divide or label each other to act like who's more "American" than the other. You may as well check for any African ancestors in every race there is (Asian Indian, Polynesian, New Guinean, Micronesian, Melanesian, etc. who have darker or brownish skin color). vice versa). How you look all depends on heredity, your parents' ancestry, and where they happen to come from long ago. 63.3.14.1 16:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The trees and the forest

This article has some excellent sections and seems to be right on track for peer review, good article and featured article status. I'm wondering if it's time for all of the hard-working editors to step back and look at the forest (the entire article) rather than the trees (each section). I'm posting this topic for macro-level discussion... Here's what I posted on Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups:

“ African American: Uneven-- some sections are truly excellent, some good but lacking citations, and some too speculative for an encyclopedia entry. One or two sections seem to be drawn entirely from a single source, which raises questions (see item #11 here). The history section was very long; perhaps dividing it into subsections would aid reader comprehension. Some bits of various sections seemed to fit best in the History section. Some people would rate this article good, based on its outstanding sections. ”

Here are some further thoughts:

• Some sections under the heading "Historical Controversies" seem to me to be both extremely speculative and largely drawn from a single source. It's exactly because they are controversial that they need to meet a higher standard of documentation (citations & references) than other sections. While I respect other editors' contributions, think we should be bold in dealing with sections that may hinder the Good Articles/Featured Articles process. I think objectively that if African American is on the Featured Articles track, we should either bulk these subsections up with a high standard of documentation, or consider deleting/moving them off to a separate page. I realize that some editors may have strong feelings about the inclusion of these sections. But there's a saying among authors (attributed to Stephen King): "Don't be afraid to kill your darlings." Besides, moving a topic off to its own page isn't killing it; it's just finding it a new home.
• The Quotations section is really good... but doesn't it seem to be a separate topic from African Americans per se? I really think this section should be moved to its own article.
• So I suggest creation of African American (Historical Controversies) and African American (Quotations). I would put two links to each page on the African American page: one in-text, and one in the See Also section at the bottom of the article.
• Finally, for an article with this much outstanding content, no one person can document an entire section. I suggest a Section Documentation Project with a volunteer list to add cites & references to the various sections (noting that some sections are already very well cited; you may want to simply double-check for links to disambiguation pages or other small errors):

Section Documentation Project

Nomenclature	yourname yourname yourname
Demographics	yourname yourname yourname
History	yourname yourname yourname
Impact ...	yourname yourname yourname
Political legacy	yourname yourname yourname
The term ...	yourname yourname yourname
Political ...	yourname yourname yourname
Who is ...?	yourname yourname yourname
Terms no longer ...	yourname yourname yourname
Criticisms	yourname yourname yourname

--Ling.Nut 17:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Archiving

Please, when you archive: you can archive part of a talk page without archiving all of it. Some archived comments appear to be less than 2 days old at the time they were archived. This basically prevents people's comments by being seen by much of anyone except the person who archived. If they even bothered looking. - Jmabel | Talk 02:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Political correctionism

It should be noted somewhere in the article that not every black is of direct African ancestry, it is a political correct terminology that is almost exlusively only used in America. Crud3w4re 08:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea what you are talking about. "Black" in the US (though not the UK) sense of the word refers specifically to sub-Saharan African ancestry. - Jmabel | Talk 06:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

That's exactly the point Crud3w4re probably tried to make. If "Black" would refer to sub-Saharan African ancestry in your (and the article's) point of view, that should be noted. Others may think "Black" would refer to one's skin color, and in that case, a link with African descent is definitely not always applicable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.57.44.198 (talk • contribs) 7 October 2006.

This is an article about African Americans. Note that second word. An American context can be presumed. - Jmabel | Talk 05:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

That is what it means in the UK too, SqueakBox 18:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

What is political or correct about being of a certain ethnicity?

If this is true, "African-American" is a poor description. African American is a stupid euphamism from the 60s-70s that seems to have displaced "black" and "negro" in American conversation. Every black person I ever met refered to their race as black, if they even referred to it at all.

But why is it stupid? Because most black people in the US dont have any recent relation to Africa, any more than people from Yorkshire have ties to Denmark. Whites and arabs from Africa arent called "African American" while black people who came here from the Caribbean Islands are called "African Americans" even though they arent from Africa.

And people are often referred to as "African Americns" even though they may not be American or even Canadian citizens. For example, a black person from the UK. The recurring theme here is that "African American" is an American term used in place of "black." And since "black" is the term in common usage in the general population and amongst black people, we should simply refer to the race as "black people" and refer to nationality separeately- for example "Black Americans" or "Black people living in the USSR" or "famous Black communists" etc. Calling people "African Americans" is often deceptive.

Additionally, it is imprecise because "African" isnt really an ethnic group. Across Africa, there are enormous variations in apperance, culture and native language.

This section should just be a small language page explaining the euphamism with a link to a page called "History of Black People in the United States." This would be far less confusing and get rid of the debates over language in the page itself, which should concern itself entirely with history. Any agreements, disagreements?

Beerslurpy 10:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course, any American no matter if they white or black or brown, has some degree of "Anglo-Saxon" in them. What about millions of white people in America has immigrant grandparents or ancestors? Can you refer them as let's say "Irish"? "Italians"? "Germans"? "Poles"? or "Hungarians?" Not really, because anyone of white skin or of European racial origin blended in and became "Americanized". This social rule of who's admitted into this mostly white society was an age-old problem for African-Americans, whom are just as American and many blacks contributed to the development of America for over 300 years, not just slaves and servants worked for white masters or landowners. I don't deny there's such a thing as "race", but it was the politics behind how we act towards those of different color for centuries had divided African-Americans apart from 80-90% of the US population until the late 20th cen. (but no doubt goes on to this day). Segregation by law or custom was proven in social psychology a major barrier to racial groups away from complete assimilation, because of looking different from everyone else in America. Why we went P-C since the 1960s (actually by the civil rights movement of 1955-69 brought on integration in the 1970s. The P-C trend started 20 years ago and soared in popularity in the 1990s) was some liberal white people were ashamed and bothered by such open or subliminal acts of racial discrimination and disparities. Why would the "liberals" pretend it wasn't there at the first place when you simply join the civil rights cause? Was the majority of pre-1980 white conservatives against most types of integration ordered by liberals? Today, the words "conservative" and "liberal" have different meanings, as most Republicans hold no racial prejudice despite their opposition to affirmative action and multicultural diversity. There are many black political leaders opposed to liberalism and the Democrat party, although Bill Clinton was deeply concerned on race relations and poverty in all races, not only African Americans in his home state Arkansas. The conservative black vote accused the liberal P-C left for mishandling or hadn't solved racial inequality and other issues by stirring up emotion and used semantics/P-C talk to turn away/overfocus on certain topics: poverty is bigger issue than complaints on "institutional" racism, but again the real problems are society is obsessed by race/color and don't pay close attention to our nation's socioeconomic divide. 63.3.14.1 16:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The lead, and other contentious matters

I recently found myself reverting wholesale some edits by User:Dynamicknowledge24 (after he/she reverted my wholesale and also made quite a few other edits), so I feel I should explain myself.

None of my recent edits removed significant content from the article. My only deliberate removal was of "While all human life on earth originated in Africa, it is quite true that every human on earth's ancestors originated and were indigenous to the african continent." This has no more place here than in an article on any other particular ethnicity: it's like saying in the article on German people that anthropologists believe that humans are descended from anthropoid apes.

What I mainly did change was to move the lengthy section about who is and who is not an African American into the first section following the lead (moved intact, and still preceding the content of the earlier nomenclature section to create Definition and nomenclature), then wrote a new lead that is much more typical of how articles on ethnic groups in particular countries begin: quickly summarizing the demographics, cultural contributions, and status of African Americans in America.

Dynamicknowledge24 did not simply revert me. His/her edit, commented as "Restored original heading which possessed important info regarding this culture and is a good lead in to the rest of the topics addressed. Also, removed unnec, info box and did some editing," did not "restore" anything except the one sentence I had deliberately removed. It:

1. moved the old content (all of which I had preserved) back into the lead
2. completely deleted everything I wrote
3. completely removed the infobox that is the single most standard element of articles on ethnic groups
4. shrunk the passage about nomenclature (which might bear some trimming)
5. removed the paragraph that begins "During the Progressive Era, black members of the middle class attempted improving the conditions of their ethnicity"
6. removed the section Historical controversies (which perhaps should be removed or highly abridged, but not without relevant comment)
7. added a picture of Halle Berry with a caption that seems to argue with itself as to whether she is really an African American "… the first African American woman to win the prestigious Academy Award for Best Actress, is of biracial African American and Caucasian descent." (As remarked elsewhere in the article, most African Americans have some Caucasian ancestry; I have no idea how Berry identifies, but, this being an article on African Americans, if she doesn't identify as one then her picture doesn't really belong, and if she does, then that caption doesn't really belong.)

If I've missed anything, my apologies. It's not like I had an edit summary to guide me through this.

As I say, a few of these edits might be right (though even those merit discussion, or at least a meaningful edit summary). I strongly advocate: if you are making several unrelated, obviously contentious edits in a controversial article, you should make each separately and write a clear summary for each. But taken as a whole, this was a drastic, nearly uncommented edit to a controversial article, and in some respects was headed in an absolutely wrong direction, so I have reverted it wholesale, pending discussion of individual items.

End of rant. - Jmabel | Talk 18:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Man, this article is a real minefield, isn't it? The very next edit (anonymous, no edit summary) eliminates much of what User:Dynamicknowledge24 wants in the lead and I moved down a section and adds things like "The average Black American is 80% African descended, raping of African women by White men during slavery was common." I have no idea where the 80% comes from; and while raping of African women by White men during slavery was, indeed, common the way it is placed here suggests that it is the only reason for mixed black-white ancestry in America, which would come as news to a dozen or more of my African American friends who have 20th century whites (parent or grandparent) in their ancestry and none of whom, to the best of my knowledge, is the product of a rape. Is there any citable evidence for this number (or, elsewhere in the added material, "40% of Black Americans also have some Native American ancestry")? And is there anything citable for the implication (which should either be stated explicitly or removed) that rape of slaves accounts for the overwhelming proportion of white ancestry in the African American population? (Conversely, prior to this there was only one passing mention of the rape of slaves as a factor in ancestry, and that in the somewhat cryptic context of black ancestry of people who are considered white, rather than vice versa. Certainly the topic deserves some mention, which is part of why I am not reverting.) - Jmabel | Talk 23:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Slavery and nomenclature

I would not use the term "African American" in referring to the slaves: they were enslaved Africans. I suppose it is an OK (if anachronistic) term for free blacks even in slavery times. But I don't have anything citable on this. Does someone have a source that says roughly this? I would imagine it is out there. - Jmabel | Talk 00:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

What about the term "black". Is that inappropriate to be used? I have had an interesting time in the "black people" article, where some contributors (A Canadian and Yemeni) have advocated that ultimately the term "black" is nothing more than a slavery term and should not be used to describe the people in question. What are the opinions of those here? --Zaphnathpaaneah 02:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

dont forget me zaph and i aint arab or canadian--Halaqah 01:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

As the article discusses, "Black" has been pretty universally acceptable in the U.S. since circa 1970. Before that it was more of a slavery term, but it was very successfully reclaimed by the Black Pride movement. - Jmabel | Talk 06:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I am so happy that the term is dying and being replaced by African American, just listen to the ring African American. It makes sense, African poeple in America. black, a color, what does that tell me about you? nada---Halaqah 01:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

African American is in itself a racist term, as well as the term Asian American. Why are blacks and Asians Continent-Americans while Whites are not European Americans, and Hispanics are not North American Americans? Why is white OK, but Black is racist? There is nothing wrong with the term "blacks" if people of European descent can be called "whites". Of course, as i am opposing something to do with a minority i will be considered "racist" because i refuse to use the term African American while the term white is A-OK.

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles

Hello,

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Your article has automatically been given class=stub and reassess=yes ratings. Don't feel slighted if the article is actually far more than a stub -- at least in the beginning, all unassessed articles are being automatically assigned to these values.

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Thanks!
--Ling.Nut 20:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Odd sentence

Does anyone know what the following sentence is supposed to mean? "There were four required or permitted acts of discrimination against African Americans." If you understand, can you clarify? Otherwise, it should be removed. - Jmabel | Talk 21:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem with people is they feel as though they have to be so politically correct that they're always wrong. Saying that a black person is "african american" is the same thing as saying that "they aren't european". It doesn't really matter how anyone tries to persuade their thoughts on this subject, it's been wrong since the term has come into affect. The term, broken down, does NOT signify race in any sense, and to make a hidden definition with it is simply absurd. I feel as though the section should be split, because the politically correct term has nothing to do with rationality. Being black is alternate to being white. Being african american is alternate to being italian american...at what point does this signify race? It doesn't.

Race and ethnicity are completely different each other. Race refers to people that have similar pyhsical appearances and the same ancestry. Ethnicity refers to people that have a specific heritage, culture, language and tradition. Blacks from the U.S. and blacks from Jamaica are of the same race because we are black and we are of African ancestry. We are ethnically different. The culture, heritage and history of black people in these nations are different. Blacks in the U.S. started the civil rights movement and created rap and jazz music. Blacks in Jamaica created reggae music and gained independence from Britain. There never were any blacks from Jamaica that participated in the American civil rights movement, and no blacks from the U.S. participated in Jamaica'a independence from Britain. African American is an ethnicity, not a race. It applies to black Americans. Read the definition, or read mine. An African American is a black person born in the United States of America, or an American-born black person, who is of African ancestry, or a descendant of enslaved Africans brought to the U.S. during the Atlantic Slave Trade. If a white person comes from Italy to the U.S., that person is an Italian-American, not European American. If a black person comes from Nigeria to the U.S., that person is Nigerian-American, not African American. Europe and Africa are continents, Italy and Nigeria are countries. A person's nationality refers to the country of their birth. Italian, Nigerian, American, German, Ethiopian, and Canadian are nationalities. European, African, and Asian are not nationalities. The term African refers to the indigenous peoples that makeup the continent Africa. They are the ethnic African tribes like Yoruba, Zulu and Ashanti. These people are also black people. They, along with others, don't consider other people to be African. You have to look at this historically, racially and scientifically. Yes, humanity started in that part of the world, but when humans went to other lands, they became their own race: white/Caucasian, Indigenous American, Arab, Asian and black/African. That's how it is. Besides, the term was used by Malcolm X and pro-black groups towards themselves and other black Americans before it became acceptable. One more thing, why do you think the Cherokee and the Apache are known as Native Americans? Because they were in the U.S. and the Western Hemisphere first.Also, black people in other countries created ethnic terms that combines their African ancestry and their nationality. For example, blacks in Brazil are also known as Afro-Brazilians. I also don't hear some complaints about people of East Asian ancestry calling themselves Asian American considering the fact that the Middle East and South Asia also makeup the continent Asia, and a lot of people don't just call them Asian American. In some cases, they just call them Asian.Cclass 22:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You obviously don't know the meaning of ethnicity. An ethnicity is a sense of being different than other groups because of cultural tradition, ancestry, national origin, history, or religion, so you aren't just "white", "black", asian", whatever. It is only categorized like this in the US, in the rest of the world you are what your culture is, and as an Italian like me, I consider myself MEDITERRANEAN, I hate the EU and the belittling of my culture. Good day.

It's not used in the same way as it should be, it is politically incorrect as "latino" is incorrect, which happens to insult my Roman ancestry. Crud3w4re 06:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

So this is what I suggest: Just a section that says it's based on political incorrectionism, that "African Americans" usually have no connection to Africans or Africa, that it just furthers the political incorrectionism in America. Also to be used as a tool for politicians to make it seem like blacks have a more significant culture than everyone else. You may think I'm being biased here, but it is true, noone else in America gets treated as better, I don't know what is wrong with the idea of just being an American. The politicians need to stop dividing the people, also blame your special interest active groups, if they don't divide the people, they go out of business! I apologize if I insulted anyone, I am just a major political incorrectionist. :) Crud3w4re 06:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Look, I don't know what you mean when you say favoritism. Blacks in the U.S. are treated the same like everybody else. If you're talking about affirmative action, then I agree. Anyway, it's obvious you don't know geography. Africa is a continent. If a black person comes from Ethiopia to the U.S., the person is an Ethiopian-American. Ethiopia and the United States of America are countries. They're nationalities. Africa and North America are continents made of a number of countries. They are not nationalities. If a white man comes from Ireland to the U.S., he is Irish-American. Europe is a continent made of a number of countries. It's not a nationality. If a black man comes from Jamaica to the U.S., he is Jamaican-American or in some cases with other blacks from the Carribean, Carribean-American. Are all black people in the U.S., African American? Absolutely not. Now, for the American. Everybody who was born in the United States of America is an American. I am an American. I'm not stupid. But to say a person should not celebrate their heritage is wrong. If a Hispanic-American guy wants to celebrate his Puerto Rican heritage, he should be allowed to do so. Who am I to say he should do the opposite? Besides, St. Patrick's Day is more of an Irish holiday, yet it's celebrated in the U.S. In NYC, the Puerto Rican Day Parade happens annually in June. The West Indian Day Parade happens annually on Labor Day. I don't have a problem with this. They should be allowed celebrate their heritage. It's not that they don't like being an American, it's just that they are proud of their heritage.One more thing, to say black people in the west have nothing to do with the continent Africa is wrong. That's where the family trees of blacks first started. That's where our ancestry is. Also, the struggles blacks in the west went through and the struggles the Africans went through are similar. Another thing, saying that ethnic terms that are "politically correct or incorrect" separates people is wrong. Racism, bigotry, prejudice, discrimination, hate crimes and racial or ethnic slurs are the things that can divide people. I have no problem with people of East Asian ancestry calling themselves Asian American. I already explained the term. If you don't understand, then it's your fault.198.83.112.133 15:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Apologies. I am not saying that you shouldn't want to celebrate your cultures, I'm just talking about people calling ALL blacks African Americans. I saw it being done to a guy from Haiti, he was called an African American, he could only put "African American" on his application, I think that kinda insults him, I don't even see why there's a need to ask people what their race is, it divides the country, it's profiling! And yes, I am against Affirmative Action, I believe they are a racist organization, they need to come up with points based on economics, not based on what the US considered your race to be. Crud3w4re 19:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

What about white south Africans (while many whites of British-Germanic origin live in Zimbabwe), would they count as "African-Americans"? or any East Indians from Tanzania fit under the category, because that country is in Africa? What would an African-American residing in Japan or France or Brazil be called...African American French/Japanese/Brazilian? I thought these countries people will consider them as "American" tourists... especially in sub-Saharan Africa, they are black but are Americans happened to have African ancestry. Anyhow, the west African nation of Liberia is under a small Americo-Liberian elite, direct descendants of ex-slaves returned from the Americas, most came from the U.S. in the early 1800s. I'm saying do they need an hyphenation: "American Africans"? Other countries of non-African origin: Egypt populated by 70 million Arabs is located in the African continent. I've doubt if the ancient Egyptians in 2000 to 50 BC are black, part-black/white or a different race of Africans. 63.3.14.1 16:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

So much for a totally off-point discussion

Jmabel, the sentence should be removed; it makes no sense. It's either vandalism or the result of an incomplete edit. deeceevoice 06:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I removed the sentence, I hope in a good way but if you can edit that whole bit a bit better go ahead! SqueakBox 01:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I was about to repose the original question when I saw that you'd actually answered. - Jmabel | Talk 06:54, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Africans who came to the US don't look at themselves the same way a black American would. If someone is from Nigeria and came to this country, they are Nigerian-American, not necessarily black. Can a South African white qualify as African American??? Think about it, they are white but from Africa. Will an European of black color/African parents come to America be an "African... European...American?" I don't know where we're headed, but I don't like this hyphenation if it's used to demonstrate who's better off or who we need to give a pass to. I like to see a white rapper or hip-hop artist become "black" while his skin color didn't change a tone. I wonder he can get away shouting the N word, probably not unless he introduces himself a white N****r (LoL... who wants to?) Oh yeah, why is every bad word or foul word acceptable to say in public, esp. by school children in this age? Only racial slurs are taboo or name-calling people who are gay, women, other religions, handicaps, etc. is also taboo. It's wrong to cuss, swear or use dirty words around people... but it's tolerated and no one really gets in trouble anymore for it. I can't take anymore of black children call each other that awful word, or black men in rap songs refer to black women in disrespectful ways (I won't repeat what the rap artists say...women shouldn't be called B*ches, sl*ts or h*res.) Are we teaching children the right way like whites can dress or act like ghetto rappers, but well-to-do blacks don't cut it in the African American culture? I hate it when a fellow black person tells me, an African American man that it's not "black" to succeed. I graduated high school then attended a good college and to land a job that pays well. It's not about being "black" that defers me away from personal achievement, but the rap music some children listen to are (if are black, got self-hate ideas...or if are white, racial messages on another culture). 207.200.116.14 10:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Another discussion

You still don't get it, do you? If a black person comes from Nigeria to the U.S., he is Nigerian-American. Learn your geography. If a person, albeit a white person, comes from Ireland to the U.S., he is Irish-American. He is not European American. Europe is a continent made up of these countries along with their nationallities: Ireland-Irish, Italy-Italian, Germany-German, France-French, Norway-Norwegian, Spain-Spanish, England-English, Portugal-Portuguese, Greece-Greek and Finland-Finnish. There are others, but I don't have time to name them all. These, and other nations make up the continent Europe. If a person from any of these nations and becomes a citizen of the U.S., they take the nationality of their country of birth, not continent of birth, and connect it to their adopted nationality, American, like the example I just gave. Africa is a continent made up of these countries along with their nationalities: Nigeria-Nigerian, Uganda-Ugandan, South Africa-South African, Namibia-Namibian, Ethiopia-Ethiopian, Zimbabwe-Zimbabwean, Ghana-Ghanaian, Mali-Malian, Somalia-Somali and Senegal-Senegalese. I could name others, but I don't have the time. If a person comes from any of these nations and becomes a citizen of the U.S., they take the nationality of their country of birth, not continent of birth, and connect it to their adopted nationality, American. Please learn about geography. I already explained the AA term. If you don't understand, it's your fault. Now, profiling. Suggesting that Arabs and Muslims should be stopped and be victims of harassment just because the terrorists nowadays are Arabs and Muslims is profiling. Police officers who stop, question and harass a young black man just because he's black is profiling. Filling out an application that has the question, "What is your ethnicity?", is not profiling. Blacks whose ethnicity are different from the ethnicity of black Americans check "Other". I know a guy from the Virgin Islands who does that.20:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Cclass

Don't delete my posts, sir! If you're replying to me, why do you first delete my post to make it look like you're replying to yourself? Italians and Greeks are traditionally mediterraneans, differs from your traditional european nations. If you want to profile, you either go 100% or not at all! It is racist to ask me for my race or ethnic background, I don't have to give it to anyone! Crud3w4re 23:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Crud, that's basically saying if someone asks where you are from, then that person is being racist. It is NOT racist to ask what your race is. In fact, it's required by law in the U.S. Does that make the government racist? No. This country is a melting pot, something we are very proud of. It's great to know that people from all over the world come to our country for a better life. Not racist. kthx! DJDavis92 00:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Cclass, you make the honest mistake of misunderstanding the roots of "African American" and "European American". They are not logically thought out terms that are equal or make real sense that can be used in analogies. "African American" is a political term. It sounds nicer than "Black" (which was an insult until it was turned on its head), shows history and ancestors, and shows an ounce of patriotism. "European American" is rarely used. Americans of all shades have such mixed ancestry after a few generations it is impractical to keep a certainy country attached to their identities, and, Americans typically find it quaint to still be harping about the motherland 100 years on. J jackson 17:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Irish Americans find that quaint? SqueakBox 00:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

European-American is rarely used because Europeans in America are the majority, Do you think people in Nigeria go on about being Nigerian-Africans? They are the majority. If Africans took over America and became the majority then the term European American would become valid---Halaqah 01:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

It all depends on how the person viewed his/her national origin. Mexicans for example remain closely tied to their homeland south of the US border. They are treated as a "racial" group, despite most of them are "white" and American Indian. The African-American identity was nourished by a racist and hostile society around them, but this was shared by Latinos, American Indians and Asians for what "race" they came from. We must focus less on ones' color and ensure this country accepts all people, whatever their color is. Do we need to measure ourselves by...hair color, eye color or minor tone of skin color? I thought America and the free world learned this lesson on "racial science" when the Nazis in Germany made their own citizens, Jewish-Germans, an "alien race". The results of blaming someone because of they aren't right to the Nazis followed by the Holocaust. Did we as human beings learn this stuff is dangerous when we begin to divide ourselves into racial designations if they ain't real differences at all? The Jews are identified by religion, but still an idiotic fringe (like racists or neo-Nazis) would harp on it. Same goes to sexism, homophobia and classism, not exactly based on racial differences, but who/what the person is ("oh...she's female, he's a 'homo' or they are 'poor'...let's treat them less or deny them their civil rights"). It's gotten to a point only a certain segment of people in the US gets away in racial identity: can't be white people. (unallowed for Americans with light skin or European origin to make an issue on their race in "proper society"). Black people are a separate culture, but members of society to had build America, then let's be Americans. Race is political, not biological fact...a dare reality in a world where people fight over what tribe, creed, faith, class or color the other guy is (not only America it's everywhere, look at Israel-Palestine)...but thank god in America where whites, blacks or whoever don't blow up each other on a daily basis. 207.200.116.14 10:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Any racial identifier term is "valid" if a person wishes to use it to identify themselves and it's factually correct. The term "European-American" isn't invalid simply because they are the majority. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That may be why it's not commonly used, but the fact that it isn't commonly used doesn't make it invalid. People can identify themselves in whatever way they wish, and we should respect that. If someone wants to be identified as "European-American" it's a valid, if odd, choice. XINOPH | TALK 17:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC) 12:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Poorly chosen comparison

The comparison of the African American unemployment rate to Western European rates is, at least, problematic. With a very different structure of benefits, being unemployed in the U.S. means far fewer benefits and far greater social marginalization. - Jmabel | Talk 01:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

from 207200116203

<<Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stealthound">> oh come on.,my edits are relevant to the African American experience and gets deleted for breaking Wikipedia rules??? I happen to be a black man!!! Can you admins help me out "research" and "verificate" it? The US census themselves use the "official" but questionable stats on the African American population. Then the NAACP came out to say on the census stats are wrong and deceived millions of black Americans out of the census. Next is the number of black Americans in the west coast wasn't stated in the article, you find millions of black people like me in California. Why was it deleted too, it was right in the California article. The southern US still has half the black American population and 8 southern states are over 10 percent black. It's obvious to notice the heart of black America is the south, but the soul is thriving in the north and the west. I explained why the crime rate of urban blacks is true, but gave African Americans a bad name with a racial stereotype planted on us, and what the article states we black people commits the most crime. Police brutality and racial profiling hasn't corrected the problem, it was the drug epidemic and how the inner city was void of good-paying jobs and poor standard education. The inner cities are better today than 15 or 30 years ago, most black neighborhoods have more recreation to keep young blacks away from crime, drugs or gangs "for kicks" (sorry it was POV and I tried not to make it so divisive or offensive, since I'm an African American man). We gave colonel sanders most of his KFC recipe, but why is it nostalagic black movies or TV shows make fun of what we eat? White Americans eat this stuff too and KFC is a worldwide enterprise, thanks to you know what people? Rap, Rock, Jazz, Soul and disco has much to thank the African American music of gospel, rhythm and blues, and ragtime played for over a century. And the P-C libs want to tell me don't say negro, colored or black are "bad words" but they allowed us black people to say the "N word" to each other??? I won't use that word ever, but its a very corrupted version of "negro" or "colored". To say I'm African American is the current trend to self-title our people, but it's to make whites forget more of the civil rights struggle by a code word to make them closet racists "feel good", to ignore the suffering we endured. Whether you're liberal, conservative or moderate (myself), you're going to disagree about today's current status of African Americans by review of policy to advance or entrap my people. We're enjoying a better life and more freedom than my parents, grandparents and slave ancestors had. I'm fortunate to be born and alive in the US but can't deny racism and injustice happened. Wikipedia is an elitist self-corrective machine that deletes every edit worth while to look up. 207.200.116.12 09:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC) <<Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stealthound">>

My Response from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stealthound". "Welcome, again. The edits were major, and were also coming fast and unsubstantiated. I would welcome your input, but please check WP:MOS and WP:NPOV and try to put the information back in a neutral point of view, while giving references. It was just too much new information to ask others to just "look up". I understand that it is hard to figure out how to give references for the information you wish to put into the article. I am more than willing to help. Just post the references here and I will format them in a way that you can use. Again, I believe that you have something important to say, and would welcome your voice. Sincerely," Stealthound 18:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Robert L. Johnson

I want to dispute some of the claims made about Oprah Winfrey in this article. 1) How does Forbes list in 2006 cement Oprah as anything in the 20th century? It is clearly the 21st century. 2) It also seems to me that Robert L. Johnson was at one time twice as wealthy as Oprah has ever been, with a one-time net worth of $3 billion. Please see Forbes. --SVTCobra 23:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Robert Johnson was never worth anywhere near $3 billion. Your own reference has his net worth listed at $1 billion.

Second Biggest Nationality Group

If the US Census was mainly based on Nationality not Race/Ethnicity, would it be the second biggest nationality group after German Americans. --User:Caribbean1

Race and ethnicity/ancestry are two different things. History shown us why African Americans haven't fully assimilated...because of a white majority marginalized them because their color and appearance. Any Irish, German, French, Swede, Dane, Dutch, etc. blended in for being white European people. They are simply American, but why black people are always black? Unfortunately, any proof of "blackness" and African racial ancestry singled out the second largest American "ethnic-ancestral group." I wonder if Latinos (of "any race" the census said) are now the largest ethnic group by ancestry? I guess the largest "race" ... er ethnic group are Mexicans, followed by Africans and Native Americans. There's no such thing as a single race of Africans or Asians or whoever...if you go by ethnic, national and regional variations in these "racial" groups. Europeans aren't one single prototype, because some Italians, Greeks and Mediteranean whites (would Arabs or Indians count?) are darker-shaded than light-skinned Argentines, Japanese and Maoris (I named a few "non-white" groups don't possess much skin color for living in certain climates.) "African-American" is an artificial invented term in the 1970s/80s to make white liberals look like they know it all, but most black people called themselves "black" (and American) a lot longer. We cannot keep ourselves obsessed over what color one is, then we can't operate as one society, the United States may end up a failure if we continue this "race baiting" and discrimination by racists or P-C activists. 207.200.116.14 09:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Probably not, since (as noted elsewhere here) a nationality would be, say, "Nigerian-American" and not "African-American". Just as "European Americans" wouldn't be identified if it were based on nationality, nor would African-Americans, or Asian-Americans, be thus identified. XINOPH | TALK 17:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC) 12:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow....

...this article is both terribly written and formatted. I would hope someone with focus might sit down and fix the page.

Constantly deleted and overedited, because some of the entries are painfully true. We don't wanna get too politicaly correct, but tell the truth and show where you got the information. I hate it when Wikipedia decides it's "racist" or "false" or "nonsense", then starts deleting and rearranging the whole article, piece by piece. No more of this reformating, just leave it alone!

Dubious

In the infobox, under "Related ethnic groups" why do we specifically mention "some with Native American groups"? There is presumably more admixture of European ancestry than Native American ancestry. - Jmabel | Talk 09:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Why was the sentence "Nonetheless, even today African Americans as a group fall well below the country's average in income, wealth, business ownership, and levels of formal education" dropped from the end of the intro? Most of the intro is, appropriately, about the not insignificant progress made by African Americans since the mid-20th century, but to talk only about the progress and omit this qualifier seems to me to present a false picture of African Americans' status in the U.S. - Jmabel | Talk 09:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization of Black and White?

Throughout this article, the word "black" is often capitalized. In my opinion, it should not be because black (like white) is not a proper noun, while Asian, African, European, etc. are derived from specific places. White is rarely capitalized. I'm not whining about reverse racism or anything like that, but it looks stupid to capitalize one and not the other. Regardless of what we choose, "black" and "white" should either both be capitalized or both be lowercased. SteveSims 07:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it should be consistent. However, since the terms "Black" and "White" here refer to assumed ethnicity, and since other ethnic groups get their names capitalised, even if not derived from place names (e.g. Eskimo and San), I would think that capitalisation is in order, also to distinguish if from the purely adjectival (you get black Blacks and you get brown Blacks, but I've never seen a white White).- signed by anon IP

Some of you might heard of a story on how a young attorney Thurgood Marshall spent 40-50 years of his life to change the capitalization of "Negro" by a capital "N" instead of a small "n". Marshall strongly felt the need for capitalization is polite and repsectful, because to type or write "Negro" with a small "n" is comparing his racial group to an animal (in grammar, you can spell dog or cat or any animal with a small letter, but never do this about a person, or any group of people, out of manners, etiquette and cultural sensitivity). After linguists in the early 1960's adapted Marshall's request (before his admittance as judge in the US Supreme Court), he noticed most white people already dropped "Negro" and "colored" (once was considered polite to use in both Southern, Northern and Western states) for "black" people. Then he changed to advocate "Afro-American" until the late 1980's when more white Americans chose the new hyphenated "ethnic" or "national" title, because Marshall stated black Americans are simply Americans of African origins... or that exact location on the origin of Americans with darker skin colors. After his death in 1993, Afro/ican-American political leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton already got on board used the new self-title, so had lots of "politically correct" or "anti-racists" (mostly liberal whites). I'm not sure why in the 2000's Michael Richards, a white TV actor is accused of joking about the term "Afro American" a "racist" slur or "bad word" (was he in trouble for racial epithets anyway?). There's gotten to be more black Americans rejected the "African American" title in favor of only American, (ask Whoopi Goldberg on this one) and whenever the topic comes up in a social circle, now we say "American-Africans" (in reverse, it's proper to say American first) or "Americans/people of African descent" (people first terminology). I'm sick and tired of what to call our people (I knew it's very unP-C for whites to say "your people" in a black person's face, unless it's a black person said that to a white person)... when will it end? 63.3.14.1 17:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

That is really interesting. That solved my own personal confusion about capitalizing Black and White. I originally thought Michael Richards coined the term "Afro-American" when I saw him apologize on TV. I think many people, due to ignorance, thought that as well. He would have been wise to have done a little research on his wording before he made his apology to the world, especially since he was appealing for forgiveness from African-Americans. Saaaammmmm 11:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Footnote #5

The source referenced in note #5 does not provide any information related to Oprah being the "richest black person on the planet". Further, that claim is highly dubious. I would bet good money that Robert Mugabe has quite a bit more in his Swiss Bank account than Oprah could ever dream of. --216.75.93.110 14:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

African-Americans in Canada?

I believe they would be called African-Canadians. The term American as an adjective usually refers to United Staters, for some it refers to all of North and South America and the Carribean. Well you might as well list their populations too.

Tupac Amaru Shakur

I have recently noticed that there have been no mentioning whatsoever of the late Tupac Amaru Shakur, I am very sure many here on wikipedia would contest and try to contend my view that Mr. Shakur was a notable and prominent figure for African Americans, and is worth very well noting in this article. I have added a qoute, however i hope to see more about Tupac Amaru Shakur in other areas of this article.

Thank you in advance.

Term Negro

"The term Negro, which was widely used until the 1960s, has become increasingly considered passé and inappropriate, or derogatory. It is still fairly commonly used by older individuals and in the Deep South."

Fairly commonly? Though I don't live in the deep south, I still find that rather hard to believe. Perhaps, if it were sourced, I could check on it.

I believe it. Young black people continue to use the "N word" among themselves like it's no problem, then a (racist or ignorant) white person comes up and shouts the same word, this is "wrong" or "bad". Lots of P-C rich whites here in Cal. pressured every non-black person to avoid older terms, except if you're an elderly black person it's alright to say Negro or Colored. I may be black or the current title, African-American, but never is and never was a Negro or Colored person. From my experiences living in Los Angeles, the double-standard of who can say "black", "colored" and "negro" is unbelievably stupid. The "n word" is widely used in the Hispanic and Asian communities, also I notice white people are told not to say "oriental" or "yellow", and "spanish" or "mexican" anymore. After 9/11, the P-C wackos didn't want their own kind to say "terrorist" because it would offend Arab or Middle East people. Enough! I don't call people racist or ethnic slurs, because you consider them not as people, which the meaning of terms "Negro" and "colored" was somehow dehumanizing to blacks (er...African Americans) in a time prejudice was open and right at your face. The P-C movement costed us our freedom of speech (in good humor, a different standard is a black man is shouting racial slurs in front of a mostly black/mixed-race audience and they laugh not at him, but with him, on those pathetic words we never say in public). Same things with other taboo subjects: sex, drugs, sacrelige, death and political controversy, but why is it race the most dangerous issue to talk about in America today? The P-C elite, that's who. I never objected to the word "black" since my group long used the term between us and each other since the 1950s, but I won't care if any old black or old white person says "Colored" or "Negro", as long I'm addressed as "sir", "mr." and "man" not "boy" which is totally rude to address an adult like that (or "girl" for a woman, it's equally harmful to her based on sex/gender, just call her "ma'am" , "mrs." or "miss" instead, she'll love to hear it). Just have manners and respect to people who look different from you, whether they have a different color or creed or nationality. I never called Hispanics "brown' or Native Americans "red" either, but I would say "are you a Latin person" or an "american Indian"? Ok not really the right word, but acceptable to more people than a white person talk about me as an "African" or "dark person". I'm an American citizen, not from Africa and don't refer me dark, because I have an invisible light soul, so does inside every human being. 207.200.116.14 10:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

dude...you aren't happy on this. Most people laugh or joke about going to the bathroom (one big taboo). But a whole other standard to make wisecracks on race segregated public restrooms (a bigger taboo). Its not funny to laugh at abuse and suffering of people persecuted for their race or such. Nobody in the world of comedy dares to make fun of Hitler, Nazis and the holocaust (the biggest taboo in history). good for you...on addressing women or ladies mean you teach them with respect. I'm with you unhappy the media glorifies black males treat sisters (black women) like sex objects under "pimp"s' control.63.3.14.1 16:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The list on other "African communities" worldwide gets deleted, restored or changed without first discussing them in the talk page. I'm aware not only African-Americans, but Afro-Canadians and Afro-Europeans, Afro-Latinos and Afro-Arabs, and some persons of the African race live in Asia and Australia. But the point being is the African race is a major division of humanity and we should explore the proposed pages, as long it offered reliable sources and academic research. Now to respond to 20720011614...you never call an African-American a "dark" person, nor teach young black men to objectify women of any race. And yes, I think there's something wrong for a moral-societal agenda to accept young blacks to call each other "n*gg*r" or "nigga" like no offense comes out of that word. Hundreds of black/African-American actors, comedians and politicans complained the semi-acceptance among the black community on the "N word" has to be abandoned, because it furthers denigrate and indignify African-Americans when the "N word" is said out loud in rap music songs. 63.3.14.1 16:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I am from the deep south (Mississippi Gulf Coast) and Very older individuals will use the term Negro. They are not trying to be insulting. Both of my great grandmothers used this term. Once in a great while my grandmother (69 years old) will also use this term. Recently after becoming friends with a mixed couple (her first such relationship) she has noticably began using "Black" in addition to "Colored" and "Negro".

Free People of Color

Last I recall the USA had Free people of color in states prior to the Civil War. For example in New Orleans during the second quarter of the 19th century, Free People of Color owned over $2,000,000. worth of property in N. Orleans. Also every person that was free was not a mulatto. --Margrave1206 18:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

And you point vis a vis this article is? - Jmabel | Talk 23:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Caucasians make American laws

Why is there a reference to an "African American Civil Rights Movement?" The Federal Congress was practically free of Negroes when the Civil Rights Act of 1957 was enacted. GhostofSuperslum 15:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Um, because movements don't mostly take place in legislatures? There was rather a shortage of congressmen on the streets in Little Rock or Harlem. - Jmabel | Talk 04:13, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The last time that I saw him on TV, President Eisenhower appeared to be a white man. He was the fulcrum in the 1950s. He sent the Army to Little Rock. White men were in control of everything. They still are in control, too. After the Rev. M. L. King was slain in 1968, riots erupted when dismayed Negroes realized that all of them could be murdered whimsically. Those riots were the closest thing to an "African American Civil Rights Movement." (I was on the streets in 1968; therefore, I am not putting forth any second-hand comments. I am relating what I observed "with my own two eyes"). GhostofSuperslum 13:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

YEAH ABOUT THE "REGIONS WITH SIGNIFICANT POPULATION" PART. . .

Would African Americans in Canada be considered African Americans, or African Canadians (or something along those lines)? What about STATES with significant populations of African Americans, such as Mississippi or Louisianna, REGIONS (as it reads) such as the South or the Northeast or Midwest, or even CITIES such as Gary, Chicago, Philidelphia, etc. A country doesn't give much information but the total population. And in a country as large as the United States, that doesn't give an idea of where they live, just in the country, somewhere. Be more specific! I tried doing some cleaning up in the article, such as moving the population chart of African Americans at the very bottom to the demographic section, where it belongs, but the other chart causes corruption. I am also adding to the demographic section, since it reads as if the American West has a sparse population, but for those of you don't know, California has the fifth largest African American population of any state. You wouldn't know that by reading this article though! It needs a lot of work, but it's possible. DDavis092 05:05, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

On your first question, I believe the prevailing term is "Afro-Canadians", but, of course, there aren't many; "Black Canadians" is broader, and can include dark-skinned people from South Asia. No, they are not generally considered African American, unless they are relatively recent immigrants (a generation or two) from the U.S. - Jmabel | Talk 04:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I see, though, that whoever edited this disagrees with me. Is there any basis for this other use of terminology? - Jmabel | Talk 04:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Anybody, including blacks, who emigrates from Canada to the U.S. is Canadian-American(although Canada is not underdeveloped at all).`- signed by anon IP

Look up the California article under the demographics paragraph and there is brief descriptions of the state's African-American population. In the 2000 US census, approximately 7 percent of the state's people are black, and a great majority live in urban areas, but more found to live in suburban cities in the Los Angeles metropolitian and san Francisco Bay Areas. The old black neighborhoods Watts of Los Angeles, Compton and Oakland remains a major center of California's black American culture. It's sad the Wiki admins won't allow an entry on California blacks and kept retooling the article to block further edits "without discussion, reliable sources, or article standards". 63.3.14.1 16:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Copy vio in Who is African American

I'm not sure but it looks like the editor just reworded the sentences. (I'm not sure thogh, someone else review the material, the first few sentences were noticeable)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

African Americans in US regions

do most african americans live in the south? - signed by anon IP (originally, the question was on the black percentage of Texas)

Don't think so. Its mostly Mexican Americans there -- Chris Q 08:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who keeps changing the words, but stop it. It is perfect the way it is.-signed by anon IP

Actually, you could be right. According to the 2000 US census, over half (55%) of all African-Americans lives in six Southern states (Ala., Fla., Geo., Lou., Miss. and So. Carolina), all of them are over a quarter black (the highest goes to Miss. at 35%) and four other states in the South (Ark., North Carolina, Tenn. and Vir.) have over a million blacks. But, five states with over a million blacks (New York, New Jer., Ill., Mich. and Cal.) aren't located in the Southeast. I don't know who stated there are more Mexicans or Latinos, (s)he probably meant Texas and the Southwest (Ariz, New Mex., Nev. and Colorado) is of course, these states' largest minority group. The west coast has millions of African-Americans, but compose a small fraction of the three states' population (Ore., Wash. and Cal.) most focused in urban areas (Seattle-Tacoma and Portland-Salem), and more Asian Americans than blacks live in that region. For future entries and edits, look up the US census web site: www.UScensus.gov and keep footnotes of that data on African-American percentages of all the 50 US states and Washington, DC, perhaps the most "black" (African-American) percentage major city (or some say the title goes to Atlanta, New Orleans or Detroit). 63.3.14.1 16:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Ohio also has over 1 million blacks. 75.21.210.245 02:12, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

protect the article

I really think we should protect this article so that racists and the like can't keep vandalizing it. Just look at the history and see how bad it is already :P ScrapMetal 03:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)ScrapMetal

I'll semi-protect it for a bit and see how that goes - Jmabel | Talk 07:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Minutiae in lead

Most Caribbean people or "dark" skin will identify with black since it has no connotation of culture, but they will not identify with African-American. Most people in Latin American of African features and "dark" skin identify as black and are referred to as "black" until they encounter US census statistics that redefine their culture and racial categories to American standards. This continuous redefining and mixing of racial and ethnic categories as one form of identity in America (e.g. black and Caribbean as African-American, Indian in appearance and 3rd generation Caribbean as Asian) continue to dominate Americans' view of "bi-racial" and "multi-racial" but are not reflective of the views of those being classified of Caribbean or Latin American origins (birth).

I suppose most of this belongs in the article, but I really don't think it belongs in the lead. Any objections to moving it down (if the equivalent isn't already below, I didn't check)? Also, it needs rewording, some of this is pretty polemical: e.g. "until they encounter US census statistics" "continue to dominate Americans' view", uncited "not reflective of the views". - Jmabel | Talk 07:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Stop messing with the article. It's perfect the way it is.`- signed by anon IP

For further research on the topics on Afro-Latinos and African-Americans:

• Oro Negro: About the Afro-Chileans of the Arica valley Even the most "Euro-caucasian" majority countries in Latin America, like Chile, Argentina and Uruguay, where black/African descendant populations are under 1 percent, have either assimilated or went extinct. The web site on Afro-Chileans was an exhibit in the 2001 world summit on racism in Durban, South Africa.63.3.14.1 16:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I am afraid I must point out on error in the about statement that jmabel addressed. Actually, the majority of dark-skinned, African-features people in Latin America do not identify as black. Several do, but not at all the majority. The majority actually go by the term "mulatto" which in Latin America holds a much different connotation than "negro," the Latin American racial classification of black. A notable example would be the nation of Brazil, where over 80 million people possess varying degrees of black African ancestry, yet less than 7% identify as black, while virtually 40% of the entire population identifies as mulatto.For those who are not in the know, mestizo, mulatto, indigenous, negro, etc. are racial classifications in Latin American countries.

A similar example could be given about the Dominican Republic, where the vast majority of Dominicans are considered "dark-skinned" yet 84% identify as mulatto and less than 10% identify as black. Also, as a resident of the US, I would also like to point out the the census for African American on many job and college applications is oftentimes labeled, "African American/non-Hispanic" to in fact differentiate African Americans from what many would refer to as dark-skinned Latinos. The same is given to the classification of White/non-hispanic. The term Hispanic in the United States covers any number of Latin America national descent. Non-Hispanic blacks are classified with African American/black, meaning African American and/or black. Within a social context outside of governmental census however, the ethnic differences between black ethnic groups in the United States are noted, yet the overall black identity is embraced. dynamicknowledge

Malcolm X with a gun?

A gun symbolize violence, death, etc. Malcolm X is suppose to represent a hero who wanted peace and liberty for his people. I don't think using him with a gun as a portrait is fitting; to me, the picture makes him seem like he should be feared rather than admired. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bélancourt (talk • contribs) 17:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Since the picture appears in a section dealing with the Black Power movement and the Black Panther Party, and since Malcolm X is commonly associated with these, I wouldn't say showing him with a gun is misrepresenting him. It might be questionable if this were the first picture to appear on his article, but for the purposes of the African-American article it seems quite in context. G Rose (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Black

Out of curiosity (I am not a native English speaker), how offensive is it when somebody reffers to an African American (or more broadly, any black skinned African) as 'a black'? The article seems to indicate it is not offensive at all, but I thought I read otherwise?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  04:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

"Black" isn't really considered an offensive term over here, like "white" isn't considered offensive to whites. But African-American is still considered the most "proper" term.--Jersey Devil 19:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not offensive but some are angered when people do use the term. which is ridiculous because no one calls "whites" Caucasians. 66.30.160.186 23:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of African Americans do not find the term black offensive. In fact, most AA's embrace the term black with pride. African American is considered the "politically correct" term but the term black is just as commonly used if not more so than the term African American. However, when you call a person black in the United States, you wouldn't call them "a black," but just black. "A black" could be taken offensively, depending on how its spoken, just like any word. In that context, you say he or she is an African American or he or she is "black" but never "a black". Of course, this applies to the African American culture in the United States. Black African-descended people in other countries, from other cultures, may take it differently. Every culture has their own historical perspective, standards and terms.

                                                             dynamicknowledge

New image

A user asked why there were no women in the main image, so I updated it to show Rosa Parks and Oprah Winfrey. Is everyone ok with this? --DrBat 22:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Small typo

There's a wayward right-bracket (]) in the third paragraph of "Who is African American?" I'd fix it but I haven't registered yet. 72.199.241.47 23:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Cut paragraph

I cut the following paragraph from the end of the section Definition and nomenclature; I found it utterly incoherent.

As a result of the US power in classification and re-classification demographics are slightly skewed to fit a bell shape curve in many instances. Migration and bloodline patterns for people of Afican Ancestry is not taken into account in the wider picture of "African-American" classification. The main classifications as of today are skin color and then country of origin.

- Jmabel | Talk 22:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I do not know who is messing with the article, but whoever you are, stop messing with it!! The article is perfect the way it is!! Leave it alone!!Fclass 15:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK the name of the person who edits the page is displayed in the history of the article.

If you're talking to me, well, I can ask the same thing of you -- the article isn't locked and consequently it is open to improvement. The three references added by me (and removed by you without any explanation) are substantiated in the references themselves (visit the URLs, y'know). Your view is not the only possible view of things, and my given URLs are proof of view that conflict with yours.

You think that no-one in the USA would use the term "African-American" for whites, but my URLs prove that you're wrong. You think that no-one in the USA would use the term for non-American blacks, but again, my URLs prove you wrong. I agree that *generally speaking* your opinion is valid, but exceptions do exist and they are well documented. leuce 16:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

The question, though, is whether this is common enough to be of encyclopedic importance or whether mentioning it at all gets immediately into the range of undue weight. We don't bog down the articles Hungarians or Romanians with a paragraph about some ignorant American thinking that they are Slavs. - Jmabel | Talk 02:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Point taken, although the article does seem to imply that the term is *never* used for such purposes (and never by citizens of the USA), which errs to the other side, IMO.152.111.85.29 13:43, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The previous comment was added by me. 152.111.85.29 13:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:African Americans/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Uneven--some sections are truly excellent, some good but lacking citations, and some too speculative for an encyclopedia entry. One or two sections seem to be drawn entirely from a single source, which raises questions (see item #11 here). Also, a seemingly permanent site of contention. This article should probably be reevaluated periodically. - Jmabel 05:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 07:46, 11 November 2015 (UTC). Substituted at 20:13, 2 May 2016 (UTC)