Talk:Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (782)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (782)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dana boomer (talk · contribs) 21:17, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I'll be reviewing this article for GA status and should have my full review up shortly. Dana boomer (talk) 21:17, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   • I've made a few minor copyedits. Please feel free to revert/discuss anything you don't like.
   • Last sentence of the lead is quite long and convoluted. It could probably be better presented as two sentences.
   • Background, "where they captured much booty" - "much booty" is a bit awkward.
   • Background, link booty, Syrian Christians, Thumama, al-Hasan ibn Qahtaba, eunuch?
   • Background, "whence he left" - although technically correct, "whence" is a bit archaic. Possibly "at which time"?
   • Background, "but was heavily defeated" - "heavily defeated" is awkward. Perhaps "thoroughly defeated"?
   • Background, "again prepared to launch their habitual raid." Not sure what you mean here by "habitual raid", unless you mean that this was done relatively frequently (annually?).
   • Campaign, link Magida, Darenos, Nicomedia?
   • Campaign - is the Nakoleia discussed in the first paragraph and the Nacolea discussed in the second paragraph the same place?
   • Campaign, "towards her favourite, Staurakios," - towards who's favorite?
   • Campaign - I'm assuming by the way the quote at the end of this section is placed that these prices were extremely cheap. However, this isn't explicitly stated, so I'm not sure. Do you have any comparisons as to what any of these items would normally cost?
   • In the Campaign section, you say that Tatzates defected from Armenia to the Byzantines in 760, but then say that after his defection to the Abbasids he became ruler of the Armenians. If he defected away from the Armenians in the first place, why did they take him back with open arms to become their ruler? It seems to me that a guy who changes allegiances faster than I change shoes wouldn't be the greatest choice for a king :)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

A few minor issues with prose, and so I am placing the review on hold until they can be addressed. Overall, however, a very nice little article: accessible to laypeople (or at least this layperson), well sourced and with the individual action given proper context and background. Nice work. Dana boomer (talk) 21:50, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello and thanks for the review! I've taken care of most of your suggestions. On "Heavily defeated" is a standard phrase, and Darenos is otherwise unattested and unidentified, so I can't link it. On your last question, I've tried to avoid the confusion in the text. Armenia was occupied by the Arabs and ruled on their behald by native princes, supervised by an Arab governor. So when Tatzates fled, he deserted the Arabs, not the Armenians, who as Christians often fled to Byzantium and found employment there as soldiers. On the other hand, when he returned, he would be unlikely to risk any second defection to the Byzantines, and was thus a reliable (for the Arabs) candidate as provincial governor. Constantine ✍ 17:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, thanks! I've made a few more tweaks, but other than that everything looks good to go so I'm passing the article to GA status. Nice work! Dana boomer (talk) 20:59, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

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"Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (780–782)"

@Cplakidas: what do you think about turning the two final paragraphs of the "Background" section into two sections, "Campaign of 780" and "Campaign of 781" and retitling the article (and rejigging the first paragraph) to combine the three campaigning seasons into one? I ask because I want to link to Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (781), but I'm not sure a separate article is warranted. This article has the basic info, but a reader arriving here from there will be confused. Srnec (talk) 00:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Srnec the problem AFAIK is that the 780 and 781 campaigns are not covered in detail in the sources, and they are just some among a sequence of back-and-forth raiding from both sides. I focused on the 782 campaign (and the 806 one) because they are treated in much detail. I would therefore not rename the article as it stands; on the Abbasid invasion of Asia Minor (781), first I would not use that name (the invasion was limited to a relatively shallow penetration into Cappadocia and featured one major engagement, hence possibly Battle of Caesarea (781) might be appropriate? but I haven't seen this term used anywhere...) but second I agree that a stand-alone article is superfluous. Where do you want to use the link? Constantine ✍ 11:50, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I am working on an article on the failed Byzantine attempt to install Adelchis as king of the Lombards in 788. (Current working title "Byzantine invasion of Calabria (788)", but I don't like it.) John, the victor of 781, was captured and killed after the 788 battle. I don't think an article on John is warranted, but I want to link somehow to this other article on Wikipedia that mentions him. Srnec (talk) 21:59, 19 November 2023 (UTC)