Talk:2021 Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17 crash

Proposed merge of 2021 Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17 crash into 2021 Indian Air Force Mi-17 crash

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was Merge. Please discuss the final acceptable title in another thread.Venkat TL (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2021 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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I hereby make an request to any administrator hereby can take a conclusive decision on merging these three articles into one to avoid ambiguity of information --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ) 13:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• (full disclosure - I expanded the one with Mil in the title) Oppose, make a redirect. As I explained on Balablitz's talk page, the one I expanded has better and more reliable sourcing than this one. There is no info in this not already on the one I expanded, so a redirect would be sufficient - nothing to "merge" per se. W. Tell DCCXLVI (^{talk to me!}/_c) 13:26, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Linking the talk page section: User talk:Balablitz#Rawat etc -W. Tell DCCXLVI (^{talk to me!}/_c) 13:31, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Fine, merge. This article has been improved since, both seem to be comparable now, and this one got to mainspace first. This one still overuses Twitter as a source tho. Let there be consensus found and I'll improve the prose and sourcing. W. Tell DCCXLVI (^{talk to me!}/_c) 14:28, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Agree. Merge information from the Mil article to this article to avoid confusion. clickHereToGoToMyUserPage (talk) 13:46, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Agree.Merge information into this article. Let us please avoid duplicate efforts. Arunram (talk) 13:52, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• (Disclosure - I created the one with Mil in the title) Oppose. Make a redirect. Reasons - Better citations and detailed content Rahilmohd0220 (talk) 14:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• In that case @Rahilmohd0220:, please go ahead and add said citations onto this page. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 14:16, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Support merge. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 14:16, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• 2021 IAF Mi 17V5 crash.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

@Rahilmohd0220, @MusikAnimal The pic appears to be copyright violation. Such images should not be added into the article when the article is on the mainpage. Venkat TL (talk) 04:33, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

@Venkat TL Unable to do so as edits are restricted due to edit filter Rahilmohd0220 (talk) 06:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

I removed it after your agreement above. Venkat TL (talk) 06:31, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Current event tag

I believe this tag has now become redundant. As the event is over and there are no longer any speculations. I have removed it. --Venkat TL (talk) 03:51, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Flag salad "Reactions" section

As you may know, "Reactions" sections, and especially their list format and flags, are despised by many editors as unencyclopedic quotefarms sourced to primary sources such as Twitter. This "Reactions" sections should be trimmed. Abductive (reasoning) 03:14, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• Remove As elaborated above by @Abductive. Every major Office holder and politician have mourned the death. This section has no encyclopedic value. I had already removed it yesterday and I have removed it again. This section should not be added without making consensus about its significance. Venkat TL (talk) 03:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Remove: I am the one who placed that section there. While I do get it has some purpose I realize that it could fit better into a separate article, Reactions to the 2021 Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17 crash. Dunutubble (talk) 14:49, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Remove. I disagree with the reasoning that all "reactions" sections are useless, oftentimes it's necessary to include major countries official positions on major international events. In this case though, the section as such is just blasé thoughts and prayers. That being said there may be substantive reactions in the near-future to this event once more details are known, and it may be necessary to include a reactions section of a different format once those are reflected in reliable sources. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 20:40, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Contact lose time

It is written in incident section that aircraft crashed at 12:10 and reports of crash emerged at 12:20. But contact was lost at 12:22! How is it possible that it was in contact after 12:10 if it crashed? -- Parnaval (talk) 09:47, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

The one reference that mentions 12:10 says "around 12:10" so I would have thought that the contact lost time is probably more accurate indication of the time of the accident. We may just have to wait for more detailed reports to come out. MilborneOne (talk) 09:57, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

@Parnaval Wikipedia article does not say that crashed at 12:10. The word used in the Wiki article is Around 12:10, it crashed. TNIE Which is not a very good source, is used to source this and it also says crash around 12:10. As @MilborneOne, said better to wait for more reliable sources and official report. Did Def minister Rajnath Singh make a statement yet? I believe he will quote the exact time of the crash. We could then use the same. Venkat TL (talk) 10:10, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

“ The Air Force Mi-17V5 helicopter took off from Sulur Air Base at 11:48 am yesterday and was expected to land at Wellington by 12:15 pm. Air Traffic Control at Sulur Air Base lost contact with the helicopter at approximately 12:08 PM. ” — Read full statement of Rajnath Singh in Parliament on IAF chopper crash

Parnaval, MilborneOne this official statement clears the confusion on time discrepancy. The initial reports may be unreliable. Venkat TL (talk) 10:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Agree we can use the official statement to correct the timeline. MilborneOne (talk) 10:29, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Proposed renaming of 2021 Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17 crash into 2021 Indian Air Force Mi-17 crashes

There were two crashes this year. There was another crash landing of another mi-17 on Nov 18 2021 in Arunachal Pradesh where all 5 passengers and crew survived but the incident was not widely reported. I propose renaming of the article and inclusion of a section detailing that Arunachal incident. --User:Netizenwa 11:05 AM, December 9 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose The Arunachal crash seems to be not notable enough to have its own article, or a section of its own. If there is only one article, then there is no need to rename. --Venkat TL (talk) 11:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose As already mentioned this is a notable accident because of those involved the other is not and would not have an article of its own. MilborneOne (talk) 11:15, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose WIth all due respect, I think that would be best deserving of a separate article instead of part of this one. Sincerely,Dunutubble (talk) 14:18, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - This is not a list article. Unrelated accidents which happen to take place within the same year and country should not be grouped. - ZLEA _T\^C 22:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Naming the sole survivor Varun Singh

Name of the sole survivor Varun Singh has been removed Special:Diff/1059589971. I suggest we revert it back and include this name as a special case. Venkat TL (talk) 10:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

It is not normal practice as User:WilliamJE mention in the edit summary, why would this be a special case ? MilborneOne (talk) 12:47, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Could some please point me to this norm. Thanks Arunram (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

I do not think it is a practice. This is because:

1. Similar articles, such as the Smolensk air disaster, Assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira, 2008 Polish Air Force C-295 Mirosławiec crash, YAK-Service Flight 9633, and Canberra air disaster, have their victims named.
2. Bree O'Mara's page was created after she was killed in Afriqiyah Airways Flight 771. She would never have had an article if this rule existed.
3. When it comes to survivors, Bahia Bakari's sole claim to survive a plane accident- but she still has an article, which not only won an AFD battle but was also created after the accident occurred.
4. The Yemenia Flight 626, JAT Flight 367, YAK-Service Flight 9633, 1983 Negev mid-air collision name their sole survivors.
5. Even about other accidents non-aviation related, 1997 Thredbo landslide still names their own (page-given) survivor, Stuart Diver. More loosely there would be Marcus Luttrell for Operation Red Wings.
6. See Category:Sole survivors and List of sole survivors of aviation accidents and incidents - This stuff is notable enough to have entire pages.

That's why I think there is no evidence whatsoever Varun Singh is unnotable. Dunutubble (talk) 19:01, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@MilborneOne - He already has his own article: Varun Singh (Indian Air Force officer). Dunutubble (talk) 19:03, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Venkat TL- I have reverted WilliamJE's edit because Singh already has his own article, Varun Singh (Indian Air Force Officer). He is notable enough. Dunutubble (talk) 14:07, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

@Abductive, thanks for adding coordinates. Please include the source of the coordinates into the article for WP:V Venkat TL (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

• The location is as described already in the sources. Abductive (reasoning) 15:53, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

  Which one? I am sorry, I seem to have missed. I was looking for it in past though. Venkat TL (talk) 15:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

  There's transliteration problem when one delves into it. Nanjappachatiram, Nanchappanchathram, are rendered differently but are in fact the same village that the coordinates point to. Abductive (reasoning) 16:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)