Talk:2009 Singapore Romanian diplomat incident

AFC process discussion page

I have created this talk page to help with ongoing discussions about the article, which is presently receiving attention from the articles for creation process.

Specific considerations are with regards to Subjects notable only for one event and Undue weight; see also neutrality, verifiability, and reliable sources.

Several users have worked on this article, and discussions have appeared on many user talk pages - hence this attempt to centralize further discussions.  Chzz  ►  13:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

AFC comments

• Comment: This submission focuses solely on a hit-and-run incident. As it stands, it is not a fair portrayal of the person and is not suitable as a biography of a living person. Please look at WP:NPOV. A BLP has to be neutral. In this instance, there is almost no mention of the person's role in government beforehand, and the weight given to his purported crimes is far too great. At the moment, this is more an article on the events rather than the person. avs5221 (talk) 12:47, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
• Comment: Changed from 'declined' to 'hold' - I don't see huge concerns (so I don't think that it needs blanking); it could be fixed up. The base info is reasonably well sourced.  Chzz  ►  01:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Articles_for_creation/Silviu_Ionescu

(message copied over from user talk:Chzz  Chzz  ►  13:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

Hi Chzz & Blurpeace, I have made 1 modification since you revived the article. "wee hours" - removed. facebook - removed. A brief CV of Silviu Ionescu is added, with reference quoted. The Romanian friend we have told us that the Romanian government took away his CV (from the official website after the incident) otherwise, we can get a even better version. I am not giving up yet, because we can try to obtain from Singapore's Ministry of Foriegn Affairs but it may just take time (I guess it is just the usual justification and approval etc needed) Until such time, I hope the brief CV would help to balance the article so that it did not appear that the one incident overweigh his bio.

Please continue to give suggestion for improvement. I want to say this publicly (not sure the chat conversation was public enough) but I find the people in the AFC chat room is very helpful, adopting a positive attitude in assisting new comers.

As you have revived the AFC article, and your positive attitude, would it be appropriate to shift the discussion from Frank's talk page to here ?

Ronald2010 (talk) 08:36, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Ronald2010, many thanks for the kind comments. Several people are continuing to work on this article - it may take time, but there is no deadline. Apologies that your early experiences with Wikipedia have been somewhat complex; you have hit upon a somewhat tricky area, ie biographies of living people - and indeed recent incidents have emphasized the need for caution and care in these cases. Best,  Chzz  ►  13:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Chzz, Avs5221, Excirial and Frank...thanks for working on this article. Oh FRANK ! My apologies for making such a big splash on your talk page. You...can delete them ? It is lovely here. Ronald2010 121.7.86.175 (talk) 15:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

AFC Silviu Ionescu

(message copied over from user talk:Zhanzhao  Chzz  ►  13:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

Hi Zhanzhao, I found very help Wikipedians who are more friendly. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Silviu_Ionescu and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Chzz#Articles_for_creation.2FSilviu_Ionescu And thank you for your support ! Ronald2010 (talk) 08:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm trying to help a bit on the article. Just stick to the core facts and NPOV language, and I don't think the article will face much problems getting approved. Just tone down on the outrage and accusations. The facts of case as reported and the reported responses of all the parties involved are more than sufficient to create a decent article.Zhanzhao (talk) 23:01, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

AFC silviu ionescu

(message copied over from user talk:Avs5221  Chzz  ►  13:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC))

Hi Avs5221, I did some improvement to the AFC article. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Silviu_Ionescu and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Chzz#Articles_for_creation.2FSilviu_Ionescu. I would appreciate your further comments and feedback. Thank you Ronald2010 (talk) 08:48, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm looking over the article now. I'm not quite done, but please look at the article and let me know what you think. I'm also on IRC if you'd like to chat. avs5221 (talk) 10:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The Interpol picture would be covered by copyright, but not owned by Interpol. It would be difficult to determine where the photo came from, so you will have to treat it as unknown copyright. May be able to use under fair use if the person is in hiding. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Move from Silviu Ionescu

The original page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Silviu_Ionescu was moved due to WP:BLP1E concerns. Specifically, the article pertained more to a diplomatic event rather than the diplomat himself. To remove further concerns over WP:N, the article was transitioned to refer to the event rather than the person. avs5221 (talk) 13:48, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

That's a good idea. The incident and the Diplomatic immunity is the crux of the incident so there should be no problem with that.Zhanzhao (talk) 15:48, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Detail added on positive ID

I should be mentioned that one of the witnesses actually identified Ionescu as the driver. It is a critical detail as the rest of the article would suggest that the face of the driver was never seen and everything was based on circumstantial evidence. It is also noteworthy in the fact that Ionescu himself was critical of that particular witness's testimony and responded to that fact.Zhanzhao (talk) 02:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

moved to main space

Hi Wikipedians (all of you who made this possible) ! I see that the article is now in the main space. Since this is no longer on a single person, how about details like the Korean Singer ? should be added in ? If we are writing about an incident, then these details should be in. How about the victims ? There should be a section on the victims too. Please let me know if these details can be added. Ronald2010 (talk) 05:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

What we're trying to do is focus on the event. Adding details on every single person, fact, etc. would only serve to bloat the article. I think the details on the victims suffice as is. avs5221 (talk) 10:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

How about the Korean singer (Silviu Ionescu took her home instead of working late in the embassy), the taxi driver who took Silviu Ionescu back home (heard him calling the police in his taxi instead of from his embassy) and the Embassy's Driver (who was all the time sleeping back in the embassy did not took him to search for the 'stolen' car)? Their words are most important in breaking the lies of Silviu Ionescu, thus determining the outcome of the verdict. Ronald2010 (talk) 01:08, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Previous deletion

Was there a previoous AFD regarding this article? If so could someone provide the links to the previous history. I see there was a request for undeletion here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion/Archive_6#silviu_ionescu Could someone refresh my memory with what happened previously with this article. Thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 09:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Would it be correct to add this (all I found) to the template as it reflects a bit of the history of the previous version? 09:30, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Some updates

Some updates on the case, Ionescu's release from jail and appeal failed. --Xaiver0510 (talk) 18:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_509148.html
  • In Diplomatic immunity on 2011-03-17 11:07:44, 404 Not Found
  • In 2009 Singapore Romanian diplomat incident on 2011-06-17 18:58:08, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 18:58, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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