Talk:1980 Miami riots

Neutrality?

Not that I'm saying the story is wrong, but is there actual evidence that the police lied? Granted it's likely that it was they who beat him into a coma, but isn't Wikipedia supposed to be neutral all the same?

Transcripts and the officer's own testimony, particularly that of Mr. Hanlon's, support the claim that officer's lied and covered up their acts. That officers lied about attacking the victim was not in contention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.59.180.139 (talk) 05:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

While I know nothing about this incident, the above unsigned comment seems reasonable to me -- the article says the officer were found not guilty. Is it fair for the article to also say they "lied"? SteveHopson 02:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

References

Parks, Arva Moore. Miami: The Magic City. Miami, Fl: Centennial Press, 1991. ISBN 0962940224 and the Miami Herald archives are the refs, not explained in detail, the offisers lied in court but it was a whole white jury and they were found not gulity, not PoV, thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 02:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I think the article should be better documented. As is, the only documentation is an Op-Ed, not a news article. SteveHopson 02:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

More sources needed

The article should be better documented, its very opinionated and comes from a reporter, so the reporter is going to describe only his or her side. There are always two-sides to every story and both of those sides should be listed or the article, as Steven Hopson put it, should stay neutral. If it doesnt then the respect that wikipedia has gained will be lost. Daniel

Most of the article seems to be lifted directly from the Op-Ed listed as a citation. Considering that "Op-Ed" is by definition an opinion and not neutral, the article itself clearly also isn't neutral.07:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

You are right. Defendants are considered innocent until proven guilty. Basic rule of all civilised law structures. If they are proven innocent and leave the court as free men, they are twice as innocent. Sorry. Sorry.

Aquittal vs Innocence

This may be semantics, but a verdict of "not guilty" is not really the same as innocent. It can simply mean that the prosecution did not meet the burden of proof since the defense does not have to prove innocence but merely raise "reasonable doubt" or perhaps play on the prejudices of the jury. Although someone found innocent cannot be tried for the same offense again, then can be found civilly liable for the same act. For example, O.J. Simpson could be sued for wrongful death of his ex-wife even though he was found not guilty. Wschart 13:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC) Now, this may be right. We will see. As soon as these sleuths are charged with - dunno - manslaughter and found civilly liable for what they had allegedly done, they will be thought of as "not innocent" and "guilty". Again, until then, they must be considered innocent. Anything else is violation of the law :)

Number of children

From this article, "McDuffie was an insurance salesman who had previously been a United States Marine, and a military police officer. He had two daughters and planned to remarry his former wife at the time of the incident."

The Liberty City riots article says this "McDuffie, who had been scheduled to be remarried to his ex-wife two months before his death, was the father of three small children. Of that amount, the family's legal team received $483,833, while McDuffie's children each received $202,500, and his mother, $67,500."

So can this article be updated to reflect the fact that he had three children if that is indeed the case? By someone who has read the source material and knows how many children he had preferably. I think this language is suitable... "He had three children and planned to remarry his former wife at the time of the incident." 12.215.36.208 15:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I imagine it means that at the time, he had two children, but after his death he had three because perhaps his girlfriend was pregnant at the time. Cyborg Ninja 00:12, 28 Nov 2006 (UTC)

Wrong Michael Watts

Article was linking to the wrong Michael Watts. Have changed to stop-gap solution until someone who knows more can add a disambig. page to Michael Watts, or change the link in this article. Easy skankin' 10:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Separate article

Liberty City Riots should be a separate article... AnonMoos (talk) 15:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. 1992 Los Angeles riots is not a redirect to Rodney King, and this article should follow that pattern. Almost 20 people died in the Miami riots; it's notable enough for its own article.--Anthon.Eff (talk) 03:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

POV Check

I've flagged this article for a POV check, because it seems to me that it's not written neutrally at all. It's full of commentary such as "Del Toro's arrest demonstrates the desperation of the state and the pressure of the media to receive results, when Judge Lenor Nesbit rendered a directed verdict releasing Del Toro half way through the trial," as well as unbacked assertions such as "Thus, Marrero's testimony proved to the jury that their was mounting reasonable doubts from all angles of the state case." Yes, the jury found Marrero innocent, but there's no evidence that it was because they felt Marrero's testimony proved the existence of reasonable doubt. Phanatic (talk) 20:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. We have clear consensus that the article is less about McDuffie and more about the series of events. Cúchullain ^t/c 16:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

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Arthur McDuffie → 1980 Miami riots – I think this article should be moved to an article of that name or something similar (e.g. "1980 Miami race riots", etc.) Arther McDuffie is not notable outside of this event. The main subject is the riots and the events that led up to it - McDuffie's death and the trial. Perhaps it can even be divided into an additional article - "Death of Arthur McDuffie" (including the trial) and "1980 Miami riots", but I think the latter will suffice. Plot Spoiler (talk) 05:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Comment seems like WP:BIO1E ... question is, should this be Death of Arthur McDuffie or the proposed riots title? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 17:32, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support a move from the current title to reflect the scope of the article (it's not about McDuffie) and per WP:BIO1E. Death of Arthur McDuffie is fine but 1980 Miami riots is better because that is primary derivation of the notability of this series of events. —  AjaxSmack  22:45, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support and also reformat the article so it does not lead with the bio information on Mr. McDuffie. I have noticed we have a lot of articles in the muder categories that violate the one event rules. Someone should look into rewording, renaming and maybe even deleting some of them.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:12, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Why no mention...

...that the victims of the riot were innocent white people murdered by black rioters?

That MacDuffie was black and the cops were white is mentioned repeatedly --- but no mention that the riot victims were murdered for the color of their skin, simplybecause they were within reach of the rioters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.75.3 (talk) 15:51, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

I've added a section on Deaths from the riot. Both whites and blacks were killed in the riots. I can easily add the race of the victims if there's interest. The shorthand is that all but 1 victim on Day 1 was white, all but 1 victim on Day 2 was black. Jane Digby (talk) 18:32, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

MacDuffie vs Riots

This article seems out of balance. The death of Arthur MacDuffie and subsequent trial would be of interest even had the riot never occured. Why isn't this a separate article that is referenced here? The riots themselves get a mere 5 paragraphs in this long article. The deaths, injuries and damage to the community is barely covered. Jane Digby (talk) 17:40, 11 September 2023 (UTC)