Talk:Ángel Ramos (educator)

The section about the magazine

First of all. if this sections was added to help to avoid the image deletion, please understand that id doesn't help it. Claiming that a given magazine's issue is important to some article is not the same to claim that the cover image is important. And we don't decorate text's about magazine issues with unfree images of the magazine.

That said, if that section is to stay, it should cite it sources and, mainly, get ride of it POV language.

• The info about the magazines foundation ("founded in 1984 by Matthew S. Moore") should be easy to source.
• The bit about it's "aimd" ("keep deaf readers informed of current issues") sounds a bit like PR language.
• "It usually features on its cover successful people" must be sourced, and "successful" is completely POV.
• "...with the intention of educating hearing readers..." is PR language or original research.
• "much-stereotyped, much-misunderstood minority culture" is completely POV.

As a side point, why write so much about this magazine in this article? --Abu badali ^(talk) 20:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• It is sourced. Why are you so obsessed in deleting the image (smile)? Tony the Marine 20:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

  You have added a whole section in the article, giving extra importance to a small topic, just to try to justify the presence of an unfree image. I'm not the obsessed one. --Abu badali ^(talk) 21:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, yes another thing. When a comment is sourced from a reliable site, then there is no original research. Stop trying to make a battle over the whole issue already. There are more important things to do in Wikipedia, such as being creative and writing well written articles for the public to enjoy. Thank you Tony the Marine 20:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Please, cool down. Your tone is barely offensive. "There are more important things to do" is not a polite argument to ask someone to step out of a discussion. --Abu badali ^(talk) 21:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I've just been asked by Tony to take a look at things, but keep in mind I will maintain a neutral viewpoint :) so lets see.... quoting Abu badali above "The info about the magazines foundation ("founded in 1984 by Matthew S. Moore") should be easy to source." I think source number 2 at the end of the sentence following the one you quotes cites this information. Secondly, "The bit about it's "aimd" ("keep deaf readers informed of current issues") sounds a bit like PR language. " I sympathise there, perhaps if it was re-written as "DeafLife magazine, founded in 1984 by Matthew S. Moore, is a current-events publication written both by and for those suffering from deafness"... what about that? Next one... ""It usually features on its cover successful people" must be sourced, and "successful" is completely POV." I agree that successful does need to be a little more specific, perhaps "individuals that the magazine has deemed to have succeeded inspite of their disabilit" or something... could look at the magazine's website to see how they phrase it? Next... ""...with the intention of educating hearing readers..." is PR language or original research." I don't think that is really PR or OR, I suspect it is the outlined goal of the magazine itself as stated by the writers, and quoting them on that and then saying it is PR is like saying that you are quoting PR language when you quote NASA outlining its aims to 'get into space' isn't it? And finally... ""much-stereotyped, much-misunderstood minority culture" is completely POV." unless that is a direct quote from the magazine (which it may well be as it is followed immediatly by a cite) then I agree it is a little POV, but if it is a direct quote thats fine, just put it in speech marks. If not, then replace it with a direct quote :)

Though to be honest, the article isnt about the magazine anyway so Im not sure why it is such an issue? SGGH ^speak! 21:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Well Tony has moved some things about now so half of what I said above is now void :D SGGH ^speak! 21:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it's not void. I like your suggestions and I believe they should be implemented. The PR language in "aim is to keep deaf readers informed of current issues" is still there. The "successful" was removed.

"With the with the intention of educating.." could be fixed by saying "with the stated intention of educating...". If we imply their intent it's original research. If we take what they say for granted it's PR language. That's what I meant.

The "much-stereotyped, much-misunderstood..." must be quoted. Just like any non-trivial info got from the magazine publishers themselves.

About the article not being about the magazine... as I explained above, I believe this whole section was added to try to justify the presence of the unfree image of the magazine's cover. The fact is that our policy won't allow us to use this unfree image unless the image itself is necessary for the comprehension of some relevant part of the article. The current use is decorative. --Abu badali ^(talk) 21:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've known Tony for a while and I would never believe he would ever do as you suggest. However I'm not here for that :), as you know there is a RFC and a Req4Arb about that already. I just popped a long for the dispute over the section. I think I can alter the section for the better, because I do agree with points made by both you and Tony. Here goes.... SGGH ^speak! 22:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I found a direct quote and slotted it in. I have kept the rest as it is (as you said, "successful" has been removed. I was hoping to find a quote where deaflife itself outlined the criteria for selecting a candidate for the front cover, but couldn't find anything. SGGH ^speak! 22:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think that the image can be considered as decorative anymore since it is revelant to the section "Ramos on the cover of DeafLife magazine". Anyway, I have nothing else on the subject.

I think the article looks great :) good work as always SGGH ^speak! 00:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

$150,000 received from Idaho School for the Deaf and Blind

The story in Former head of school for deaf settles with State Board is really interesting and should be worked into the article. It tells the turmoil involved in Ramos leaving the school he worked as a superintendent. --damiens.rf 21:21, 22 August 2011 (UTC)