Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico

Active discussions

Help with an article?Edit

There's an article for a short story up for deletion and a quick search shows that there does appear to be coverage, but it's all in Spanish. Can someone who is fluent help look for coverage and if anything is usable, add it to the article? I'm going to keep searching, but I thought it would be better to get someone else to help as well. The article in question is La muñeca menor. I don't know if it's ultimately a notable short story, but I figure that it'd be better to give it more of a fighting chance. --ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 20:00, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I did some updating but my head was not completely into writing prose tonight. Thanks much for bringing this to our attention. That was helpful. --the eloquent peasant (talk) 03:32, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Yikes. I read the plot summary, it is scary. --Doncram (talk) 06:35, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Making a map for wards and would like your ideasEdit

@Mercy11: asking for your comments, but if you're busy I completely understand. It's just that...
I'll be making a map for the barrio articles similar to the ones in the Ponce articles.
I liked the Ponce barrios map format but I read the map conventions and so changed the colors of the maps I created to match map conventions.

Here's an example of a pretty good one, IMHO: Camarones - I think this one is okay but the labels may be blurry on some screens. Here are the Map Conventions The colors of the surrounding barrios are = to #FDFBEA or R:253 V:251 B:234. While the labels are a little blurry when viewed on some screens, they look perfectly clear on others, and when the image itself is clicked on. Notice the insert of the Puerto Rico map shows the 902 barrio borders, not the municipality borders.
Here's another: Morovis - I like it. It's okay.
Here's another: Tierras Nuevas Poniente - I don't like this one much because it's missing the smaller Puerto Rico map insert and there's a yellow color bleeding in the borders. This was my first so it has issues.
What else? Any comments are welcome. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:39, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

  • I'll give you my personal opinion even though I am not a map expert, I really like the Camarones one. However, I believe in you and like your style of doing things, so do what you think is best. Tony the Marine (talk) 18:53, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
  • @The Eloquent Peasant:. Before I make my comments, let me ask one question. Will you be making the maps yourself once you decide which map style to use? And I mean, making them from scratch, as in working off U.S. map datasets. If you are, then imo you call all the shots, including the map style to use (which is at the hear of your notes above). However, if you plan to submit a request for the maps to be made for you, then I think you can request they be made in certain style but ultimately it may be up to the mapmaker to deliver them in the requested style. That is, I wouldn't assume that all mapmakers are versed in all map styles, nor that mapmakers do not already have a preferred style that they already use by default. Also, I took a look at your map conventions link, looking for clues as to whose convention it is. Perhaps I am wrong, but it appears to be a single person's "convention". If that's the case, then it's not a "convention", but an opinion piece, and you are free to edit. Mercy11 (talk) 01:53, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
@Mercy11:, I'm making the maps. I don't like to ask people for stuff. I had been poking around for months and finally found a free software (gvSIG) - but the software did something to my work PC. Luckily I had a backup computer. It downloaded all night, I was shocked when it worked in the morning, when I was able to open the data. I'm basing them on Ponce's look + map conventions (and I didn't realize it's one person's conventions) You know most people don't follow conventions anyway but it was a place to start for ideas. I wish I could figure out how to use the software. So far, I just know the very basics. I wish I could figure out how to darken the borders but anyway, it's good enough and the Camarones map and the Pueblo Viejo, Guaynabo, Puerto Rico map looks even better. So I'll keep doing them like that. Anyway at this rate, I'll be done in like the year 2030. @Tony the Marine:, thanks for the compliment! You know, I did all this to learn about PR - anyway... there was a lot I didn't know. It's kept me busy and out of trouble.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:09, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
If you asked for the maps to show elevation I would tell you I wish I could do that. I once asked a friend what she wanted me to crochet for her, she answered "socks". I responded how about a hat or a blanket? Have a nice week! --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 13:02, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
A lot of people are using OpenStreetMaps for the wiki article maps. Maybe that is the way to go. In the meantime, because I haven't decided if I spend the time to practice with OpenStreetMaps, I may continue to just add maps the old way, filling the barrios in red.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:49, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
A lot of people are using OpenStreetMaps and having those maps show up on Wikipedia Articles, however, the maps which come from Wikidata item, may have misspelled city, place names. For Example: San Juan has multiple spellings on OpenStreetMap, because of spelling differing in languages from around the world. Be aware of the maps that show up on articles to ensure that if they have wrong spelling,, they be removed or corrected somehow. I've yet to figure out how to correct a map that comes from Wikidata, from OSM when it has a wrong spelling.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 15:50, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @The Eloquent Peasant: Comment: Are you talking to yourself? I hope not! Just a thought: Since this is a project page that's supposed to be watched by all project members, perhaps both (or all) parties in the conversation can keep the entire thread within this project page so other project members can chime in where/if possible. I was just having difficulty understanding what the discussion here was. Just a comment. Mercy11 (talk) 00:50, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
@Mercy11: Yes it's sad. Yeah, I was talking to myself but you're here now. I talk to people all day and most of them are very boring. I was writing here on this page to you and others. So this here. I had to delete this info from the wikidata item for La Fortaleza because 1) it was pulling in a map from OSM with the spelling of the capital = to "S A N H U A N" .. I saw this not only happening on La Fortaleza article but on other articles. So my comment (one of them) above was to be aware of this, in case you see it happening on any articles. So while it seems that using OSM is the current trend, there are issues. It's not a perfect system. In the beginning I thought it was vandalism, then realized it's just that OSM has the name in multiple languages. When the map is added to the wikidata item it ends up being populated in the article--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 01:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

OSM spelling of San Juan is wrong bug report createdEdit

This issue affects a lot of articles. On articles about places in San Juan, the infobox is being populated by maps, which I'm all for but the spelling of San Juan is incorrect. I created a bug report for the wrong spelling of San Juan, showing in infoboxes. I think they are Dynamically Generated maps from Open Street Map. Bug report is here, FYI. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 23:32, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

FYI; the problem with incorrect spelling of San Juan on OpenStreetMaps that show on Wikiarticles of places such as La Fortaleza has been fixed.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 03:07, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to PR map on archive - Explaining why I removed links to "original" domain and left the link to same maps on archive.orgEdit

Those maps from the Welcome to PR domain are on archive.org. My faith in the accuracy of those maps is not very big-but I what do I know? Wanted to mention a few years ago, the Welcome to PR site owner, once or twice on edits to wikipedia articles implored editors of Wikipedia to not add her website to Wikipedia, because of the strain on her servers. For that reason, I went in (a while ago) and removed the original link (from refs) leading to maps to her domain and replaced the reference links with same maps, but found on archive.org . Explaining--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:56, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

If you're passing by, we could sure use your helpEdit

  • Hurricane Maria - with this we'd like to add refs from newspapers, and images to each muni and their barrios with what Hurricane Maria took from them
  • New Deal - with this, we'd like to add history from https://livingnewdeal.org/ website, about the projects that were completed in Puerto Rico then
  • Economy of Puerto Rico - the municipality articles of P.R. are in dire need of information regarding their economy, historic and modern. With this project I'd like you to help add context, images and refs
  • Maps of barrios - with this we'd like to ensure that every barrio and municipality has a good map
  • Images of Puerto Rico - with this we'd like to forage through flickr to find good images and add them to articles where appropriate
  • Archive.org - with this project, we'd like to find historical documents, not only on archive.org, that could be added as refs to existing articles
  • Wikisource - with this project, we'd like to find historical documents that should be uploaded to commons and then to Spanish Wikisource
  • NRHP in Puerto Rico - with this project, we'd like to create and build on articles of places on the National Register of Historic Place listings in P.R.
  • Historical population - with this project, we'd like to add historical population for the 78 municipalities, especially in light of the fact that the census 2020 data is around the corner and we'd like to see statistics of out-migration in Puerto Rico, at least to the municipalities   Done
  • Puerto Rico highways - with this project, we'd like to add good information to articles re: highways in Puerto Rico

"Puerto Rican" or "American" in the intro?Edit

This article previously stated that he is a Puerto Rican actor, but Samuel Malik has changed it to state he is an American actor.

What are the project guidelines on identification in this regard? The article seems sufficiently robust that del Toro is Puerto Rican. Is there some subtlety I'm missing? Or could somebody from the project chime in on how to handle this case? —C.Fred (talk) 20:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

  •  
    Application Form for Certificate of Puerto Rican Citizenship
  • I would like to express my humble opinion on the issue. I believe that the correct term that should be used to describe the nationality of a person born in Puerto Rico even under the American flag should be "Puerto Rican". This is taking into consideration that there is a "Puerto Rican citizenship". According to the article which is well referenced "Puerto Rican citizenship was first legislated by the United States Congress in Article 7 of the Foraker Act of 1900 and later recognized in the Constitution of Puerto Rico. Puerto Rican citizenship existed before the U.S. takeover of the islands of Puerto Rico and continued afterwards. Its affirmative standing was also recognized before and after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico in 1952. Puerto Rican citizenship was recognized by the United States Congress in the early twentieth century and continues unchanged after the creation of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Another thing that must be taken into consideration is that the "American Citizenship" which was "granted" to the native Puerto Ricans is a limited citizenship which can be revoked at anytime. This is due to the fact that in order for that "citizenship" to be permanent an amendment to the U.S. Constitution has to be made. That means that every native born Puerto Rican does not have a true and complete American citizenship, but does have a Puerto Rican Citizenship, therefore the answer to the question in regard to the nationality of a person born in Puerto Rico, if he or she is an American or a Puerto Rican, should be in my opinion "Puerto Rican". Tony the Marine (talk) 00:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

2019 leadership crisisEdit

I am from New York, and there has been a lot of coverage of the protests and the eventual resignation of Ricardo Rosello, and the leadership crisis. There only is a small paragraph about it in the Governor of Puerto Rico article. This is worthy of an entire article. Could someone in this project work on creating an article on the crisis. Thanks so much.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi. There is Telegramgate and there is a Draft:2019 Puerto Rico protests in the works.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 20:48, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks so much.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:52, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
As a follow-up, the Draft:2019 Puerto Rico protests got rejected (twice) so someone will have to incorporate its contents into the Telegramgate article.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:12, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

AfroCine: Join the Months of African Cinema this October!Edit

Greetings!

After a successful first iteration of the “Months of African Cinema” last year, we are happy to announce that it will be happening again this year, starting from October 1! In the 2018 edition of the contest, about 600 Wikipedia articles were created in at least 8 languages. There were also contributions to Wikidata and Wikimedia commons, which brought the total number of wikimedia pages created during the contest to over 1,000.

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which have been dedicated to creating and improving content that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora. Join us in this global edit-a-thon, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing participants in the following manner:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Diversity winner
  • Gender-gap fillers
For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 00:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web toolEdit

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

How to populate the "State =" field of universities located in Puerto RicoEdit

The Infobox of this article previously stated that Universidad del Sagrado Corazón (USC) was located in "San Juan, Puerto Rico", but ElKevbo has changed it to state it is located in "San Juan, Puerto Rico, United States" (emphasis is mine). I reversed his edit to read just San Juan, Puerto Rico, explaining that the island wasn't state, a field he had wrongly populated. But ElKevbo reversed it, expressing his opinions in a rebuttal, HERE. He seems to be asking for guidance on this, and interested in knowing if there is a "standard" and if there is, interested in applying "it consistently to articles as we edit them".

I saw that The Eloquent Peasant had also to corrected that same infobox to read "San Juan, Puerto Rico" HERE, but I am bringing it to the Puerto Rico project team at large asking, what guidelines or general practices exist to specify the location of universities located in Puerto Rico, specifically, is the "US" to be included or to be omitted? Could somebody from the project chime in? — Thanks, Mercy11 (talk) 02:48, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up here, Mercy11!
There are several parameters in the Template:Infobox university that are relevant to location. The most common approach for colleges and universities in the U.S. are to use the City, State, and Country parameters; the template then combines all three of those parameters into one Location display when the infobox is rendered in the article. Another approach is to use the Location parameter which provides a lot more flexibility as it's one parameter that's rendered however it's filled out; I think it even overrides anything placed in the other location-related parameters e.g., city, state. (There's also a Province parameter but I don't think that's relevant to this discussion as it's essentially equivalent to State.)
There doesn't seem to be a parameter that is a perfect fit for Puerto Rico (or similar locations). We could ask that such a parameter be added to the infobox. Or we can figure out if one of the existing ones is close enough. I think the State parameter is close enough given that we're focusing only on displaying location in the infobox consistently (with other colleges and universities in Puerto Rico and other colleges and universities generally). I also think the Country parameter is important and "United States" is the correct thing to include there. However, I freely acknowledge my complete lack of cultural and historical knowledge of Puerto Rico and its complex relationship with the U.S. so I'm happy that the conversation has been raised here where those who do have that knowledge can provide guidance.
We could also ignore the City, State, and Country parameters and just use the generic Location parameter to type whatever we want but that doesn't resolve all of these issues. ElKevbo (talk) 12:45, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
(The current Universidad del Sagrado Corazón article has an infobox that says the university is in the State of Puerto Rico but it is not part of any country; that's very confusing and an impossible state of affairs! ElKevbo (talk) 12:52, 2 November 2019 (UTC))
An impossible state of affairs??!! I know. It's very upsetting to us too. But Puerto Rico is not "in" the U.S. "For decades, voices both on and off the island of Puerto Rico have decried its status as an "unincorporated territory"-a legal category invented by a fractured U.S. Supreme Court in the widely-reviled Insular Cases a century ago,'and technically unchanged by the adoption of a onstitution and"commonwealth" status in the 1950s. 2 Broad dissatisfaction with thisconstitutional and political limbo-neither state nor incorporated territory,"belonging to" but not "part of' the United States,' "[1] Sometimes a database doesn't have the fields / parameters necessary for all situations. I think that's the case here. In Hawaii the database field names had to be adjusted for the very long first and last names and for two middle names. Anyway, I'm tired. That's not the point. The peripheral databases in P.R. feeding US database systems would have to be adjusted if P.R. were ever to become a state, but it won't become a state. That's my prediction. So we should figure out what to do for the Wikipedia database / infobox in light of this mess and "impossible state of affairs" with dumb databases, that try to fit a square into a circle or something like that. Good night. Puerto Rico is not a state. The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:05, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
So what do you suggest we do? ElKevbo (talk) 02:17, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
@ElKevbo: which are "all of these issues" that using the Location field wouldn't resolve? After all, we are just seeking to solve 1 problem: to display Sagrado Corazón's location. Seems to me if we are looking to standardize Sagrado Corazón with other all colleges/universities in Puerto Rico and generally, then we just need to use the location field consistently and, consistently also, leave both state and country blank. Per WP:Infobox, an additional requirement is that the infobox cannot contain new information (like "United States") that the article doesn't already contain. Am I missing something? thanks, Mercy11 (talk) 02:33, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
That is one viable solution. My primary worry is that combining all of the location information in one parameter makes it difficult to do anything other than just display it in the rendered infobox e.g., easily change how the data are formatted across all of these articles by tweaking the infobox, easily import or export the data. In other words, it might solve the immediate problem but cause other problems later or for other editors. So I'm not sure that it's the best idea to immediately focus solely on this one possible solution without examining others.
I also think we should seek input from other editors e.g., those who monitor the template's Talk page, the editors who monitor the Wikiproject University Talk page. A formal RfC might be the way to go. But it would be very helpful to consider and discuss the options first. ElKevbo (talk) 03:17, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
Using the location field is fine, IMHO. So each university states for example: Naples, Italy or Owo, Nigeria or Carolina, Puerto Rico or Istanbul, Turkey... plain and simple, and more importantly- correct.The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:34, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
If you were to actually look at articles that use this infobox then you'll find that several different parameters are usually combined into what is displayed as "Location" in the rendered article. The examples you just gave would probably use different parameters e.g., City, State, Country.
Would it be helpful if we had an alias for the state parameter labeled "Territory?" (This could also be helpful for other locations that are in similar situations.) ElKevbo (talk) 16:39, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I think that regardless of what the field is called, if it displayed like this for example, "San Juan, Puerto Rico, United States" separated by commas, I know it would be wrong and give people the wrong information. Many people are surprised when we tell them PR is not part of the US. Anyway, I'm not able to visualize what the "alias" = territory would look like. Would it look like it does on the P.R. subdivisions, like 'this'? Puerto Rico is self-governed so I don't like the infobox on the Subdivisions either. [2] What is the point of having the United States be part of the equation in the university or subdivision infoboxes? Location field is flexible enough without the additional confusing "United States" tagging along... --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 17:00, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
Very interesting. The case here is that many people have the misconception that Puerto Rico is part of the United States and this is especially true for those who have a political agenda which should be discarded in our project. But, the true fact is that Puerto Rico belongs to the United States, but has never been part of the United States and this fact is backed up by a Supreme Court ruling.[3] Now, since this is a legal fact, no article regarding Puerto Rico should have in it's infobox "Puerto Rico, United States " because this would be a misleading misconception of the political relation between the nations involved. All the infoboxes involving Puerto Rico should stick to the truth and simply have as it's location in their infoboxes the word "Puerto Rico" or for example "San Juan, Puerto Rico", simple as that. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
@ElKevbo: I don't think we should be worrying about how future generations of editors may need to use those fields. Not only is it speculation but it's also presumptuous: those future editors will simply need do what we, the current generation, have done to overcome legacy problems from our previous generations of editors, namely, we created solutions as we need them. I also do not think it's wise to worry about a inventing a "territory" parameter. THIS example by The Eloquent Peasant is also wrong and needs fixing. That sort of approach, if we notice, didn't make use of any intrinsic "territory" field but instead built it's own by manipulating the "subdivision_type" field. Puerto Rico is a separate country, not part of the US as has already been amply documented here, and the university infobox should reflect that. This, btw, would be true of the university infobox as well as the settlement infobox (Hato Arriba). If, however, the infobox merits a change of country to read "United States" then United States can be populated into the corresponding field. For example, the military person infobox, has an allegiance field that clearly must be populated with "US" even for Puerto Rican nationals. This is not result of Puerto Rico being part of the United States, bc it's not. But even if it were, it would still be populated similarly, bc this is the result of the pact that the PR, a separate country, has with the US. Beyond this fact, is the fact that universities are essentially cultural, not political, institutions. The correct way to reflect this is by using the culture most closely associated with the university based on its location. Again, this points to "San Juan, Puerto Rico" not "San Juan, Puerto Rico, United States" Based on this, the coding should be either "location = San Juan, Puerto Rico" or "location=San Juan", "country=Puerto Rico". Mercy11 (talk) 02:57, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear-I know it's not about what I like or don't like but about what is correct or not correct. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 20:54, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
The example itself was a great example! And, IMO, you've done (& are doing) a great job a standardizing a bunch of articles that were either incomplete of not yet done at all. That one (Hato Arriba), together with all the barrio articles that read similar to it, share one huge quality - they are all consistent (i.e., they all read "US"). This is, of course, at the heart of the PR university articles, and ElKevbo has stated his concern on this regard which is, of course, the reason why we came to this page: that some university articles read with the "US" while others read without it. (Better for all the university articles to read wrong than for only some of them to read wrong.) But I am glad you put in your note above bc, upon reading it back myself, I can see how it can be read in 2 different ways. What I should had said is that the example you used should also have the US removed (together -of course- with the other 910 barrios). Sorry for rushing as I was heading to other chores; my rush led to the misunderstanding! regards, Mercy11 (talk) 02:15, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
@Marine 69-71: you are one of the longest-serving WP editors participating in this discussion. Has a grouping ever been created listing those article types where using the "US" has been judged to be expected (recommended, mandated, or whatever)?
For example, one group of articles, those articles that wouldn't include the "US" would be articles regarding Puerto Rico at the Olympics, Puerto Rican beauty pageants, the PR internet country code. In addition, imo, a listing of List of rivers of Puerto Rico doesn't need to list "US" since those rivers will be there regardless of change in political status. Extending out this (rivers) rationale, it would be incorrect to include a "US" in articles related to geographic features in Puerto Rico, since they won't change with change in sovereignty. Another case where "US" is not useful would be in articles dealing with PR cultural institutions and Puerto Rican culture (e.g., ICP, Centro Cultural Carmen Solá de Pereira de Ponce, Las Mañanitas) such as music, festivals, cuisine, literature, folklore, carnivals, museums, rums, etc. "US" and "American" have also long been reverted by multiple editors across the entire spectrum of nationalities from Puerto Rican governor articles; so governors and PR politicians would also be in this group.
On the other end of the spectrum, there would be articles where the "US" would be mandatory. For example, those discussing army posts in Puerto Rico (barracks, armories, airfields, etc.), and their associated institutions such as military cemeteries, prisons, hospitals, etc. Mandatory (obviously) in the "military person" infobox (although sometimes this may also be "Spain", e.g. Antonio de los Reyes Correa, or even "Puerto Rico", e.g., José and Francisco Díaz). It might also include articles types of an international political nature, like Political divisions of the United States, government-based installations or concerns, such as Castillo San Felipe del Morro, El Yunque National Forest, radio article (e.g., those dealing with FCC licenses, a federal concern), and telephony (e.g., NANP). I am sure there are others.
Do you recall any past discussions on this topic leading to consensus? If not, such listing could be started so that future editors will have something to go by. much like editors are advised not to add any names to the List of Puerto Ricans, unless the person was born in, or had at least one parent born in, Puerto Rico. If such list doesn't yet exist, we wouldn't have to come up with a complete list just now; it could be a work in progress, where new types (categories) of articles are added as they are brought up for consensus. Thanks, Mercy11 (talk) 02:12, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
@Mercy11: This is weird- you must have read my mind because I did so much research about this recently and just today thought the same thing you're now proposing. I researched and read because of the supreme court decision saying that for the purposes of double jeopardy Puerto Rico is not sovereign. The list that you propose, a dynamic list, is a great idea. It's such a "unique relationship" that we need a "unique approach" to this. [4][5]--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:38, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
@The Eloquent Peasant: That qualifier, "for purposes of", is a reminder of why it is so important to go about the job of categorizing the groups of articles (universities, rivers, governors, parks, bases, etc, etc.) very carefully so we can reflect the decisions of the SCOTUS, when available for the article type at hand, in deciding what belong in which of the 2 groups. Mercy11 (talk) 00:03, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
United States military bases in accordance to the terms of their lease belong to the United States until the lease is terminated. A good example is Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. That is why a person born, let's say in Camp Fuji, Japan is an American Citizen and not Japanese. Therefore, it would be logical to state that Fort Buchanan in Puerto Rico is actually "Fort Buchanan, United States of America". The same applies to the embassies and consulates.
Now, let's take for example "El Yunque Rain Forest". Even though El Yunque is administered by the United States National Forest System, it belongs to Puerto Rico and not the U.S. Same goes for El Morro which is a "World Heritage Site".
In regard to the List of Puerto Ricans, we have kept it in accordance to what the Citizenship of Puerto Rico states which is that a person who has at one grand-parent who is Puerto Rican qualifies and can apply for their PR citizenship papers. Now, if someday Puerto Rico becomes a state or an independent nation, then we will have to re-write the list. Tony the Marine (talk) 03:28, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
My intention was to provide some food for thought. Once we agree that something can or should be done, I think we can start deciding how to go about it. For now, what's at stake is whether universities in Puerto Rico (like Sagrado Corazon, SC) should have "US" in the infobox. My position with ElKevbo was that No, it doesn't belong there. ElKevbo's position was that whatever it is, it needs to be consistent, uniform, standard throughout all Puerto Rican university article. He also seemed to indicate he had a preference for the US to be there; I don't know for sure. He will need to speak for himself on that.
I also want to clarify a few things:
a. TTBOMK, this discussion is only about the infobox, not about article titles. No one is saying that, for example, articles such as Playa, Ponce, Puerto Rico should be moved to Playa, Ponce, Puerto Rico, United States.
b. This discussion also isn't about adding "US" to the article text/prose itself. For example, no one is saying that the lead in articles such as Mayagüez, Puerto Rico should be changed from "Mayagüez (Spanish pronunciation: [maʝaˈɣwes]) is the eighth-largest[3] municipality of Puerto Rico" to "Mayagüez (Spanish pronunciation: [maʝaˈɣwes]) is the eighth-largest[3] municipality of Puerto Rico, United States."
At least that's my understanding (the issue is complex enough already; so stuff outside the infobox, like stuff in the leads, I suggest be handled separately.)
BTW, thanks for the links; they should result informative, at least for editors unfamiliar with the complexities of the US-PR relationship and, thus, the complexities of the task we may be getting into as WP Puerto Rico article editors.)
Mercy11 (talk) 22:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
@Marine 69-71: (and, btw, happy Veteran's Day weekend) what I would suggest is if the Puerto Rico project could come up standards, something like WP:USRD/STDS but regarding when to use and when to skip the use of "US" in infoboxes (can later be extended to article's text/prose). Mercy11 (talk) 23:09, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
Your summary is essentially correct with two corrections or additions. First, I do have a slight preference for including "United States" in the "Country" parameter of the Infobox University template for colleges and universities in Puerto Rico. However, I readily admit my ignorance of the many complexities involved in this sensitive area so I am happy to defer to editors who are more knowledgeable and experienced particularly if we can argue that a reasonable consensus has been established that follows other project-wide norms and practices.
Second, I don't think it's sufficient to decide to not include "United States" in the Country parameter and instead include "Puerto Rico" in the infobox without specifying exactly where to place it in the infobox (Country? State?). I'm not very enthusiastic about the proposal floated above to simply place the entire location in the broad "Location" parameter (e.g., "San Juan, Puerto Rico") but it's certainly a proposal that is clear and workable. It lacks elegance and it makes it challenging to parse the location data using automated tools but if it's the best we can do right now then I can certainly go along with it.
(Side note: If anyone is really concerned about this or interested in it then they should see how this is being handled in Wikidata. I haven't looked yet and I have no idea what kind of database field is being used for these data.) ElKevbo (talk) 23:24, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
One of my primary concerns about adding "US" to the Country parameter (applies equally to the Location parameter) is that it would be in non-conformance with this guideline, specifically, "An infobox...summarizes key features of the page's subject." That would then not be a "summary". Adding "US" to the infobox would require the addition of US to the body of the article (to be strictly complete it would, in fact, require that the addition of "US" be explained at some length as well, so it can then be summarized in the infobox.) That's the essence of a summary: a synopsis of something that has already discussed in the text at some length. And if we are going to standardize infoboxes across all PR university articles, but then be non-standard with respect to explaining why US is in the article, that would be, imo, a step backwards in progress. Mercy11 (talk) 23:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
@Mercy11:, @Marine 69-71: et al. Please build on the Puerto Rico Project Standards page. Thank you.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:43, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

University students created this book on their Hurricane Maria experienceEdit

I thought you'd be interested in seeing this. You, anyone. Sorry everyone can't read it, 'cause it's in Spanish. Even just the drawings are impactful. https://www.proyecto1867.com/uploads/8/6/3/9/86396506/un_cambio_categoria_4.pdf - page 44 "The road where destruction and anxiety meet". In the Virgin Islands they have cisterns under their homes, so they had water. P.R. didn't. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Interesting, i went through it all to see the pics, stopping occasionally to puzzle out a bit of the text. Seems powerful. A relative of mine was very dismissive about it, because PR is so foreign to them, they were turned off when they saw some TV coverage where the people needing help spoke Spanish. I wish this had been accessible to them. --Doncram (talk) 06:24, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
I spoke with Google employees who work on translation systems and they answered, "it's hard!" when I joked with them that their translations aren't always right. "I know it's hard", I answered stroking their bruised egos. (I didn't mean to hurt their feelings and they sure took it personally). Google translate is better than nothing. Doncram, it's really difficult to learn a language. I work with some Americans who learn Spanish and I work with Spanish speakers who are learning English. Anyway, if it were easy, we'd all speak 3 or 4, right? The coverage doesn't really help. :) Have a good day now, for here or to go? (oh by the way, the next news you'll hear is about how so many Puerto Ricans were arrested for illegal cockfighting, a business that's been legal for decades, employs thousands, but is now illegal). Anyway, I think Google will find a way to teach us all a new language soon. I like linguee.es -Here are the top searches for people learning Spanish. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:07, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
@Doncram: This book "Puerto Rico: its conditions and possibilities" is in English and of course, with tech it's easy to listen to it like an audiobook but it is a bit outdated. I wish it was still like that before the economic depression.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 22:12, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
@Doncram: The whole thing, the hurricane, the crime, the political status, the options of splitting from the US and being independent or the option of becoming a state- all the current state of affairs regarding Puerto Rico, can easily make one sad.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 07:34, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Nov 27 wiki-event in Puerto RicoEdit

Meetup invitation from the Wikimedians of the Carribbean User Group

 
Wiki Cari Cafe y Donas, a Microsoft Puerto Rico

Wiki Caribbean presenta: “Las cinco cosas más interesantes en Wikipedia, Wikimedia y Wikidata, y cómo pueden ayudar a impulsar la información sobre Puerto Rico”' Café y donas con Autor Andrew Lih En la sede de Microsoft, Puerto Rico Cuándo: 27 de noviembre de 2019, 11:30 a.m. a 1:30 p.m., hora del Atlántico Dónde: oficinas de Microsoft Puerto Rico City View Plaza, 48, PR-165, Guaynabo, 00968. Detalles: Wiki Caribbean Café y donas, Puerto Rico. Charla con café y donas junto al experto de Wikipedia y autor Andrew Lih


Wiki Caribbean Presents: “The five most exciting things in Wikipedia, Wikimedia, and Wikidata - and how they can help boost content about Puerto Rico” Coffee and donuts with Author Andrew Lih Hosted by Microsoft,Puerto Rico When: November 27, 2019, 11:30 AM to 1:30 PM Atlantic Time Where: Location: Microsoft Puerto Rico offices City View Plaza, 48, PR-165, Guaynabo, 00968. Details: Wiki Caribbean Coffee and donuts, Puerto Rico. Learn about the exciting new things happening in the world of Wikipedia,in a Coffee and donuts discussion with Wikipedia scholar and author Andrew Lih.

Thank you. Shared it with over 5,000 people in Puerto Rico.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

@Shanluan: Thank you. I shared it with a young professional who has over 5,000 followers in Puerto Rico. Hopefully one of his followers will attend.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 21:12, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Shared with +50,000 people in Puerto Rico but you know how marketing is: maybe 1/2% will see it. Wish I'd known just a little bit sooner. Thanks though! I'm sure it'll be great.The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 23:41, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

FYI - Question regarding Puerto Rico road articles StandardsEdit

Hello. A new question has been posted in the Puerto Rico WikiProject Standards subsection here, which may be of interest to you. If you can share your opinion/s, great! Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Puerto Rican Astronaut Joseph AcabáEdit

                             JOSEPH M. ACABÁ NASA ASTRONAUT 
                               

NASA astronaut Joe Acaba

SUMMARY: Joseph M. Acaba was selected by NASA in 2004. The California native has logged a total of 306 days in space on three missions. In 2009, Acaba flew aboard STS-119 on the Space Shuttle Discovery to the International Space Station to deliver the final pair of power-generating solar array wings and a truss element. During this mission, he conducted two spacewalks. In 2012, Acaba flew aboard a Soyuz spacecraft to the space station where he worked as Flight Engineer for the Expedition 31/32. During this mission, the first commercial resupply spacecraft, SpaceX Dragon, arrived at the station. Acaba recently served as Director of Operations Russia in Star City supporting crew training in Soyuz and Russian Segment systems. Acaba most recently served as Flight Engineer on the International Space Station for Expedition 53/54.

EXPERIENCE: Acaba was a member of the United States Marine Corps, Reserves. He worked as a hydro-geologist in Los Angeles, California, primarily on Superfund sites, and was involved in the assessment and remediation of groundwater contaminants. He spent two years in the United States Peace Corps as an Environmental Education Awareness Promoter in the Dominican Republic. He was also the manager of the Caribbean Marine Research Center at Lee Stocking Island in the Exumas, Bahamas. Prior to arriving at NASA, he taught one year of high school science at Melbourne High School, Florida, and four years of middle school math and science at Dunnellon Middle School, Florida.

NASA EXPERIENCE: Selected as a mission specialist by NASA in May 2004. In February 2006, he completed astronaut candidate training that included scientific and technical briefings, intensive instruction in shuttle and International Space Station systems, physiological training, T-38 flight training and water and wilderness survival training. Upon completion of his training, Acaba was assigned to the Hardware Integration Team in the Space Station Branch, working technical issues with European Space Agency (ESA) hardware. He was also a member of the Space Shuttle Branch, supporting shuttle launch and landing preparations at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida. Acaba served as the Branch Chief of the International Space Station Operations branch, which is responsible for mission preparation and on-orbit support of space station crews. Most recently, Acaba recently served as Director of Operations Russia in Star City supporting crew training in Soyuz and Russian Segment systems.

SPACEFLIGHT EXPERIENCE: STS-119 (March 15 to March 28, 2009). This was the 125th shuttle flight, the 36th flight of Discovery and the 28th shuttle flight to the International Space Station. The primary objective of this flight was to deliver the final pair of power-generating solar array wings and truss element to the International Space Station. Acaba accumulated 12 hours and 57 minutes of Extravehicular Activity (EVA) in two spacewalks. STS-119 returned to land at the Kennedy Space Center, having traveled 202 orbits and 5.3 million statute miles in 12 days, 19 hours and 29 minutes.

Expedition 31/32 (May 15 through September 17, 2012). Acaba launched on May 15, 2012, from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Gennady Padalka and Sergei Revin of the Russian Federal Space Agency and Acaba landed their Soyuz TMA-04M spacecraft in Kazakhstan on September 17, 2012. Acaba spent 123 days aboard the station as a Flight Engineer of the Expedition 31 and 32 crews. Acaba supported the arrival of the first commercial resupply spacecraft, SpaceX's Dragon, in late May; and was prime robotic arm operator for the capture and release of the third Japanese cargo ship, HTV3. Acaba served as intra-vehicular crew member and robotic arm operator for two U.S.-based spacewalks, helping to restore a critical power unit and exchange a faulty camera on the station’s robotic arm. Acaba also participated in numerous scientific research experiments and performed regular maintenance and operational tasks aboard the orbiting complex.

Expedition 53/54 (September 13 through February 28, 2018). The crew launched from the Baikonur Cosmodrome aboard the Soyuz spacecraft. Acaba, who served as Flight Engineer, was joined by Astronaut Mark Vande Hei and Russian Cosmonaut Alexander Misurkin of Roscosmos. During the mission the crew marked the beginning of the first long-term increase in crew size on the U.S. segment, enabling NASA to double the time dedicated to research and achieve a record-setting week of research that surpassed 100 hours. Highlights from this research include investigations into the manufacturing of fiber optic filaments in microgravity, improving the accuracy of an implantable glucoses biosensor, and measuring the Sun’s energy input to Earth. Acaba completed one spacewalk to lubricate an end effector and install new cameras on the station’s arm and truss.

Acaba has logged a total of 306 days in space on three flights.

AAcaba (talk) 19:26, 11 December 2019 (UTC) Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). NASA.gov

https://www.nasa.gov/astronauts/biographies/joseph-m-acaba/biography

Puerto Rican AstronautEdit

AAcaba (talk) 19:27, 11 December 2019 (UTC)I have an article I would like considered for Puerto Rico wiki page.

Joseph M. Acaba NASA Astronaut

Acaba, Joseph M. (PDF 238 KB)

NASA astronaut Joe Acaba Summary: Joseph M. Acaba was selected by NASA in 2004. The California native has logged a total of 306 days in space on three missions. In 2009, Acaba flew aboard STS-119 on the Space Shuttle Discovery to the International Space Station to deliver the final pair of power-generating solar array wings and a truss element. During this mission, he conducted two spacewalks. In 2012, Acaba flew aboard a Soyuz spacecraft to the space station where he worked as Flight Engineer for the Expedition 31/32. During this mission, the first commercial resupply spacecraft, SpaceX Dragon, arrived at the station. Acaba recently served as Director of Operations Russia in Star City supporting crew training in Soyuz and Russian Segment systems. Acaba most recently served as Flight Engineer on the International Space Station for Expedition 53/54.

Experience: Acaba was a member of the United States Marine Corps, Reserves. He worked as a hydro-geologist in Los Angeles, California, primarily on Superfund sites, and was involved in the assessment and remediation of groundwater contaminants. He spent two years in the United States Peace Corps as an Environmental Education Awareness Promoter in the Dominican Republic. He was also the manager of the Caribbean Marine Research Center at Lee Stocking Island in the Exumas, Bahamas. Prior to arriving at NASA, he taught one year of high school science at Melbourne High School, Florida, and four years of middle school math and science at Dunnellon Middle School, Florida. NASA Experience: Selected as a mission specialist by NASA in May 2004. In February 2006, he completed astronaut candidate training that included scientific and technical briefings, intensive instruction in shuttle and International Space Station systems, physiological training, T-38 flight training and water and wilderness survival training. Upon completion of his training, Acaba was assigned to the Hardware Integration Team in the Space Station Branch, working technical issues with European Space Agency (ESA) hardware. He was also a member of the Space Shuttle Branch, supporting shuttle launch and landing preparations at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida. Acaba served as the Branch Chief of the International Space Station Operations branch, which is responsible for mission preparation and on-orbit support of space station crews. Most recently, Acaba recently served as Director of Operations Russia in Star City supporting crew training in Soyuz and Russian Segment systems.

Spaceflight Experience: STS-119 (March 15 to March 28, 2009). This was the 125th shuttle flight, the 36th flight of Discovery and the 28th shuttle flight to the International Space Station. The primary objective of this flight was to deliver the final pair of power-generating solar array wings and truss element to the International Space Station. Acaba accumulated 12 hours and 57 minutes of Extravehicular Activity (EVA) in two spacewalks. STS-119 returned to land at the Kennedy Space Center, having traveled 202 orbits and 5.3 million statute miles in 12 days, 19 hours and 29 minutes.

Expedition 31/32 (May 15 through September 17, 2012). Acaba launched on May 15, 2012, from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Gennady Padalka and Sergei Revin of the Russian Federal Space Agency and Acaba landed their Soyuz TMA-04M spacecraft in Kazakhstan on September 17, 2012. Acaba spent 123 days aboard the station as a Flight Engineer of the Expedition 31 and 32 crews. Acaba supported the arrival of the first commercial resupply spacecraft, SpaceX's Dragon, in late May; and was prime robotic arm operator for the capture and release of the third Japanese cargo ship, HTV3. Acaba served as intra-vehicular crew member and robotic arm operator for two U.S.-based spacewalks, helping to restore a critical power unit and exchange a faulty camera on the station’s robotic arm. Acaba also participated in numerous scientific research experiments and performed regular maintenance and operational tasks aboard the orbiting complex.

Expedition 53/54 (September 13 through February 28, 2018). The crew launched from the Baikonur Cosmodrome aboard the Soyuz spacecraft. Acaba, who served as Flight Engineer, was joined by Astronaut Mark Vande Hei and Russian Cosmonaut Alexander Misurkin of Roscosmos. During the mission the crew marked the beginning of the first long-term increase in crew size on the U.S. segment, enabling NASA to double the time dedicated to research and achieve a record-setting week of research that surpassed 100 hours. Highlights from this research include investigations into the manufacturing of fiber optic filaments in microgravity, improving the accuracy of an implantable glucoses biosensor, and measuring the Sun’s energy input to Earth. Acaba completed one spacewalk to lubricate an end effector and install new cameras on the station’s arm and truss.

Acaba has logged a total of 306 days in space on three flights.

AAcaba (talk) 19:27, 11 December 2019 (UTC) Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). NASA.gov

https://www.nasa.gov/astronauts/biographies/joseph-m-acaba/biography

  Not done: @AAcaba: I am not sure what you are asking for: there is already an article on Joseph M. Acaba here, originally created in 2004 by Marine 69-71. Are you looking to add some missing information? If so, Joseph M. Acaba's article isn't locked -- you can edit it yourself; simply click on the article's "Edit" tab to edit it, making sure you cite your additions using reliable sources for citations once in the edit mode. I am marking this "Not done" for now; but if my interpretation of your request is incorrect, reply on this page for further guidance. Thanks, Mercy11 (talk) 00:33, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Catholic Church in Puerto RicoEdit

It seems that this page has been overtaken by -what I can only call- a Marian sect of some sort. The cult per see seems to have existed for well over a century (early 20th Century, if the dates are accurate) but I’m unfamiliar with it. Perhaps one of you knows if it is notable enough to be spinned into an article by itself, or if we should create a page for unorthodox religious groups in Puerto Rico (of which there are several). In either case, since the Catholic Church has yet to recognize them, the content needs to be removed from this page. Old School WWC Fan (talk) 02:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

And, perhaps, a page on local folk saints as well? People are trying to get people like Roberto Clemente canonized and to some extend these initiatives begin with veneration that takes place out of organized religion. Old School WWC Fan (talk) 03:03, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
@Old School WWC Fan: Oh dear. I want to look at this article as soon as I have a moment. Thanks for noticing this. I'll be back. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:51, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Cari Earth WeekEdit

Return to the project page "WikiProject Puerto Rico".