Draft talk:Pietro Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Where should this page be?

@InfiniteNexus, Eagleash, (a)nnihilation97, Favre1fan93, Facu-el Millo, IronManCap, ChannelSpider, Paintspot, and TriiipleThreat: I accepted four drafts on Marvel Cinematic Universe characters. I thought that all four of them satisfied general notability for fictional characters and were adequately sourced. The acceptance was a non-trivial effort, not a simple matter of using the Accept script. In all four cases, there was a redirect from the character to the List of Marvel Cinematic Universe characters, so that the redirects had to be moved or deleted. In two cases, there had been efforts to expand the redirect into an article, as well as to create the article via draft. This meant that the redirect had non-trivial history and had to be preserved after acceptance.

Now I have been asked by User:InfiniteNexus to move Pietro Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe) back to draft space because the draft should not have been submitted for review, based on a guideline of which I had not been aware, having to do with Marvel Cinematic Universe characters. My reply is:

• 1. I don't think that I made a mistake, although I acknowledge that both the submitter and I violated a guideline of which I was not aware.
• 2. It would be a non-trivial effort on my part to restore something similar to the prior situation, either with or without administrative assistance.
• 3. The request to reverse the acceptance raises questions of exactly how much weight to give to a guideline that is a local consensus.

I said, about 14 hours ago, that I would consider the request, but that I thought that I would follow the instructions of an Articles for Deletion discussion. I still don't think that I will try to reverse the acceptance without an AFD. I am ready to hear the comments of other editors (even though an AFD might be quicker). Robert McClenon (talk) 19:14, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Also pinging @Gonnym and BD2412 for input. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Robert McClenon: I too was unaware of the MCU guideline; the action by the editor who restored the AFC tag 04:09 on 24 October had the effect of listing the item under 'AFC submissions in article space' which is how I came across it. You patrolled the page in good faith and I removed the AFC artefacts as it looked like a reasonable page to me. It certainly did not resemble a new article needing to be returned to draft. There now exists an item in article space (rightly or wrongly) and moving it back to draft (which has apparently been done before) is not encouraged as 'move-warring'. As such I would likely agree that an AfD may be the best way to proceed if editors are not happy with the item as it stands. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 20:13, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: These represent a tricky situation, because in most cases the MCU character is merely an iteration of the Marvel Comics character, which will already have been presented in other media (in TV cartoons, pre-MCU film adaptations, etc.) so the question is not just whether the MCU character is supported by sources, but whether a separate and independent article on the character is needed. BD2412 T 20:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

@Eagleash: AfD is not the relevant venue. The question is whether this subject should be merged to the existing article(s) already covering this subject. BD2412 T 20:17, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

If an article is being discussed, 'merge' can be a valid !vote option though. Eagleash (talk) 20:23, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

User:Eagleash, User:BD2412 - The AFC script is supposed to remove the AFC artifacts. It sometimes stops halfway through, and it did in this case, so it left the AFC artifacts on the article. I removed them manually as part of the procedure for AFC reviewers when the script doesn't finish. My removal of the AFC thing was then reverted when I was requested to move the article back to draft space. I see that the article in question does not comply with the guideline, but I was not aware of the guideline. It would be difficult for me to restore something similar to the prior situation. If the question is whether to merge the article into an existing article, I see AFD as one possible vehicle for that decision. Another possibility would be a Proposed Merger, which is another process with which I am less familiar. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:06, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

It is possible that eventually the page will meet the qualifications to become an MCU article. We prefer to leave these in draftspace so they can continue to be developed to that point. Perhaps these particular pages should instead be moved to project-space subpages, so AFC issues don't arise. BD2412 T 00:10, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I have started an AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pietro Maximoff (Marvel Cinematic Universe) on behalf of InfiniteNexus. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 00:16, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

What the heck?! I never said I wanted to start an AfD. Why is this getting so complicated? InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:26, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

User:InfiniteNexus - This is getting complicated because you asked me to do something complicated, namely, move an article back to draft space after a complicated acceptance. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:30, 25 October 2021 (UTC)