Category talk:Members of the Council of State (Ireland)

Subcategories?

I would quite like to disperse all the articles in this category into subcategories, most of which are existing; but there are complications:

Category	Problems	Suggestion
Category:Taoisigh of Ireland	None
Category:Presidents of the Executive Council of the Irish Free State	None
Category:Tánaistí of Ireland	None
Category: Cinn Chomhairle	Category:Presiding officers of Dáil Éireann includes pre-1937 officers never in Council of State
Category:Cathaoirligh of Seanad Éireann	includes pre-1937 officers never in Council of State
Category:Chief Justices of Ireland	includes Hugh Kennedy (judge), IFS Chief Justice 1924–36, who died before the Constitution was enacted.
Category:Presidents of the High Court (Ireland)	no such category (yet); there is a complete list at High Court (Ireland)#Presidents of the High Court Since 1924. Timothy Sullivan would be in the category by virtue of being IFS High Court President 1924–36; as it happens he was in the Council of State later as Chief Justice.
Category:Attorneys General of Ireland	includes pre-1937 officers never in Council of State
Category:Presidents of Ireland	includes Erskine Hamilton Childers, who died in office, and Mary McAleese, incumbent. Neither was ever a "former President" and hence never in the Council of State although Childers was previously in the Council of State as Tánaiste.
Category:Presidential appointees to the Council of State (Ireland) Category:Presidential appointees to the Council of State of Ireland	no such category (yet); there is an incomplete list List of presidential appointees to the Council of State (Ireland)

jnestorius^(talk) 19:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

updated jnestorius^(talk) 07:25, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The solution seems to be obvious: don't do it. If it can only be done by contortions of logic, resist the temptation. If the solution would involve excessive sub-categoriation (e.g. "Presidents of Ireland who are members of the Council of State" and "Presidents of Ireland who are not members of the Council of State") then please spare us this monstrosity. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:04, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Past experience has shown that your views on what constitutes excessive Categorization are outside the mainstream, Laurel. In any case, that is not the only alternative to the status quo. The unproblematic cases could be made subcategories, requiring no new categories, and reducing the number of Categories in which the relevant articles are included. jnestorius^(talk) 13:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

You ask for input and this is the result? Ad hominem attacks, which past experience has shown that you favour, are no substitute for constructive debate. It would have been preferable to have demonstrated how the Byzantine web of overlapping and non overlapping categories which the proposed scheme would have entailed, would not result in over-cateorisation. Simply stating that it would not result in over-cateorisation is not the same thing as proving it. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I suggest starting by simply sub-categorising the simple ones, the Taoisigh and tainsisti. It only takes two edits to do that.

As to the others, well ... there was a time I would have taken the view that the sub-cats should not be included unless 100% accurate, but these days I accept that categories are more of a a navigational device than a rigid taxonomy. So when a categ such as Category:Chief Justices of Ireland contains only one exception and it would be 88% accurate to add it here, I say do it. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I've bitten the bullet and added all the relevant subcategories. On the category pages, I've listed all the people in the category whjo don't belong in the supercategory. See e.g Presidents. jnestorius^(talk) 13:35, 18 December 2014 (UTC)