Category talk:Ice hockey players by nationality

Define Nationality

Take Robert Nilsson for example. He is a swedish citizen, born to swedish parents in Calgary when dad Kent Nilsson was working there. He moved back to Sweden when very young and has spent most of childhood and youth in sweden and in swedish hockey and has represented sweden in 3 WJCs. So he is a canadian born swedish hockey player. He isn't a canadian hockey player.

Or take Ryan O'Marra. Born in Tokyo to canadian parents and moved back to Canada when he was 1. So he's a japanese born canadian player. He isn't a japanese player.

The worst case I've found is Paul Kariya. He's got a 3:rd gen canadian-japanese father and a scottish mother, born in canada to canadian parents, never played any hockey in japan except when representing Canada.

So why is he added to the category 'japanese hockey players'? It's like stating that every hockey player named John(s)son or Ander(s)son are Swedish players, since they sure have a Swedish immigrant some 3-4 generations back.

There are some players who have dual citizenships and/or nationality.

But country X born, doesn't automatically mean country X player.

Hdw 12:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

same

that s right. nationality or representation need to be the determinant Mayumashu (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

My vote goes for place of birth/nationality and representation. For example Owen Nolan, born in Northern Ireland, but ultimately Canadian deserves both Canadien and Northern Irish ice hockey player categories. -RiverHockey (talk) 22:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree where nationality and birth reflect each other, as they most likely do with Nolan and don t with Robert Nilsson and Ryan O'Marra. I m quite sure Nolan has dual citizenship so I ve changed my mind and now agree with you that Nolan, McFadden, etc should stay where they are. Also I m gonna do up a few Irish-raised ice hockey player stubs to lend the cat page greater legitimacy Mayumashu (talk) 16:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC) so Craig Adams is not a so-called Brunei player where Owen Nolan is Irish because Adams is not a Brunei citizen Mayumashu (talk) 16:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There is already a concensus on this topic. You add the country category they were born in AND the country the represent. Owen Nolan for example would be in both Northern Ireland and in Canada. It was reached to avoid edit wars that happen on some pages and because it is still factually correct. They were born in those countries, citizenship has nothing to do with it because it is relatively impossible to find out if people still retain citizenships or don't retain them. Craig Adams for example may still well hold Brunei citizenship, how would you know if he did not have it? You would need a source to prove he doesn't. So this concensus avoids that issue. --Djsasso (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

it is a fact that being born in Brunei, Japan, Korea, Brazil, Indonesia, Paraguay, ... does not provide one with the country's citizenship when your parents are not citizens of these countries (unlike the States). the burden of proof needs to be that despite having foreign parents a Craig Adams, Willie Plett, etc. has the citizen in question. other similar cats for other sports and non-sports occupations do not follow this schema, so there is not much of a consensus Mayumashu (talk) 18:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That is actually my point when it comes to citizenship and why we do not consider these cat's citizenship cats. As far as hockey cat's and articles go for that matter there was a concensus to do it this way. The cat's do not represent citizenship, they represent nationality and birth place. The second point to make is not all these people necessarily had foreign parents, you need to be able to prove their parents weren't citizens of those countries.. --Djsasso (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

nationality=citizenship for me and I think most others; otherwise you have Rod Langwey appearing to be Taiwanese, Willie Plett, Paraquayuan, Ryan O'Malley, Japanese etc. in what sense? what you schema that goes by birthplace provides as such is mere and utter trivia. they should read Category:Ice hockey players born in Taiwan, etc. if you want to keep hockey cats different from others, your group should start your own wiki just for hockey (its possible) Mayumashu (talk) 15:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

When I say nationality it was just me shortening the meaning that they have played for a team internationally. And this isn't just my or hockey's way of doing things as a matter of fact. Most of the other sports also follow this method. Heck this is how all the People from cats are done. So there is extreme precidence to do it this way. --Djsasso (talk) 17:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)