Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-11-06/Opinion

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• Open comment to Elon Musk: To repeat my request at The Signpost and Jimbo's talk page, yes, as the opinion above states, you would do well to experience Wikipedia as an editor. Elon, please choose one edit in a political article (the point of his unique offer is that Wikipedia is left-leaning, quite true as it seems to automatically accredit some media sources and disregard others which, in America, often results in a particular narrative), make the change, and, when and if it is reverted, discuss it on the article's talk page and see if you can get a consensus for your sourced point-of-view. Many articles could use your input, so please put your editing expertise where your money is and improve an article you now read out as being in need of improvement. By editing you can also call yourself a Wikipedian, a proud and priceless title. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:28, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
• Stop giving attention to this troll. – The Grid (talk) 15:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Cannot agree more. 113.160.44.130 (talk) 12:21, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
    • Exactly. C'mon, are we going to get anywhere by telling him what he's doing wrong and how he can redeem himself? Jim.henderson (talk) 21:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn, The Grid, and Jim.henderson: - (Hey Jim - It's nice to see you around again.)

Dear all, There were about 3 things I was trying to accomplish here.

1. Musk has said that he has/had Asperger syndrome. Though I shouldn't generalize, in my experience ASD often results in difficulties in communication. I don't like to just say "Oh, that's Elon just being Elon" and give up on him. That's disrespectful IMHO to Musk.
2. This type of notice is a tradition on Wikipedia - often delivered in a boiler-plate template. Nobody believes that most vandals, or even copyright violators, are going to be magically transformed by these notices, but sometimes helping even one person is a major win for Wikipedia. But where to deliver this notice since he doesn't have a userpage? Doing it on The Signpost works best for me.
3. I'm hoping that others in similar situations to Musk can read an explanation of how Wikipedia rules work. Very few Wikipedians reach out to tell people about our rules. The community, including admins and arbs, don't do a good job of explaining our rules to folks before they edit. And the rules really aren't clear when you just arrive on-Wiki. The WMF really doesn't do this type of outreach either - well maybe every year or two - say 6-7 times since the Terms of use were changed 10 years ago. They are best placed to do this outreach, since the media and the general population seems to think that they are in charge around here. Well, as a 2nd or 3rd best choice, again The Signpost works for me.

BTW, I'd like to make sure that Musk sees this, but I don't tweet or have any other social media account. If any of you tweets could you send a link along to Musk? (Be sure to put the blame right on me). I'll also try to make sure somebody at the WMF sees this.

Hope the helps, Smallbones_(smalltalk) 01:28, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Well said. Yes, maybe the best thing Elon Musk could do in this situation is to edit Wikipedia, to see and experience what he's going on about. A well-placed edit or two on an article that Musk believes needs balance might bring some positive attention to his concern. Standing on the outside looking in, throwing a billion dollars in the air for a dare, with nobody biting at his impulsive yet humorous and generous bait (either at Wikipedia or at the foundation), pales in the light of when Musk realizes that he, too, can and should edit Wikipedia. If he cares enough about something, combined with his obvious and understandable love-hate relationship with the project, he might find himself enjoying a constructive debate that often occurs backstage on article talk pages. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:15, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• I want to believe these people act in good faith but when we see even a co-founder speak of Wikipedia in bad faith, I'll believe it when I see it. Don't feed the trolls. It just gives them more fuel. It's no different here. – The Grid (talk) 14:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

  For context: During the preparation of this Signpost issue, similar concerns (It seems somewhat silly to react to this as though [Musk is] actively working to destroy us etc.) had been raised about Smallbones' initial draft of the story about this news item in the "In the media" section. That story was toned down somewhat before publication, but Smallbones insisted on expressing his feelings in this "Opinion" piece instead (and the Signpost's editor-in-chief approved its publication). Regards, HaeB (talk) 05:18, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

What's stopping X from forking Wikipedia and using its AI and some beefed up form of its Community Notes to disrupt Wikipedia? X could reasonably say Wikipedia nor the WMF will deliver on the 2030 goals, right? 73.152.254.141 (talk) 09:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Well one thing is money. If two forks are in competition with one carrying advertising and the other not, then the one with advertising will struggle. Another thing is google and other search engines, if you are a competitor of Google, don't expect favours from them if you launch something that needs good search engine results. A third is the community, the difficult part of a fork isn't the technology or hosting, it is the recruitment and building of a community capable of competing with the Wikipedia community. The fourth is that the WMF retains the brand names, so you are launching a competitor to Wikipedia and building a new brand from scratch. Lastly, but perhaps most importantly, the website formerly known as Twitter is run by Elon Musk, what does he know of building a moderation team for a website, other than what he learned by firing those teams at Twitter. ϢereSpielChequers 14:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Wrt the statement the one with advertising will struggle I don't think that's how it works in a system that has network effects and other forms of lock-in. Otherwise, many advertising based platforms that rely on free UGC would have much more, and more effective, competition (think YouTube). ☆ Bri (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm assuming that the network effect will be stronger from Google and others who don't want to help the site formerly known as Twitter. But of course reality can change and if the main sites were allowed to collude, then a commercial fork of Wikipedia becomes more viable. ϢereSpielChequers 11:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

• Pretty important stuff. Just wanted to create Twitter account to view tweets chronologically, but trapped in the Dickipedia rabbit hole. ~~2NumForIce (^speak|_edits) 05:23, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
  • Also never thought The Musk Foundation donated to WMF before... Guess not again 🙁 ~~2NumForIce (^speak|_edits) 05:28, 13 November 2023 (UTC)