Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pharmacology

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WikiProject Pharmacology (Rated Project-class)
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Molecular weights in drugboxesEdit

{{Drugbox|molecular_weight|xxx}} displays the value as "xxx g·mol−1", that is, with the units automatically added. We currently have a lot (almost 5000 by a quick heuristic--please don't run this query a lot, it's expensive) articles that include units in their |molecular_weight= value, meaning the display includes the units twice. See for example Morphine, where |molecular_weight=285.34 g/mol is rendered as "285.34 g/mol g·mol−1". So that needs to be cleaned up. Many of these have the molecular formula given in a way that the drugbox can calcluate and display the weight automatically. Does anyone have a preference for retaining the hardcoded masses (clean up by removing the units from the value) vs allowing the automatic calculation (clean up by removing the |molecular_weight= field altogether)? DMacks (talk) 07:11, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting and working on this. Is the latter proposal to remove |molecular_weight= from the template itself, or to delete the parameter entry in boxes where it can be automatically calculated? I suppose the problem with the former case is your comment that many of these have the molecular formula given in a way that the drugbox can calcluate; the concern being many rather than all. If the vast majority of boxes can calculate the mass/weight automatically, then the hardcoded weight is redundant and it would be better to remove it. Klbrain (talk) 08:11, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
I would edit per-page to remove the redundant field. I would not want to remove support for the field from the template itself, because there are cases where autocalculation (as we currently implement it) does not work. Once we solve the redundant cases, the cases where we still hardcode could be a second edit-pass to convert to autocalculated where possible. DMacks (talk) 14:03, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Likewise, thanks for bringing this up! I'd support removing the |molecular_weight= values wherever possible. One thing less to take care of. BTW, the drugbox apparently gives the exact same molecular weights as DrugBank when it calculates them automatically; but ChemSpider has slightly different values. I assume this is a rounding error or the like on part of ChemSpider. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 06:34, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't understand why this information has been removed from the infoboxes. Taking cisplatin as an example, the infobox prior to 19 June 2020 said simply "Molar mass 300.01 g/mol" and I see no duplication. It certainly did not say 300.01 g/mol g·mol−1, at least on my computer. Now the molar mass is not given at all in this article, for no apparent reason. Please explain what the duplication was. Dirac66 (talk) 11:57, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

This is one of the cases where the drugbox can't autocalculate the molecular weight. I have restored the information. Thanks for catching this! --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 12:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Also thanks. I ran this with JWB and manually watched every edit, catching most that matched a regex but still should not have been removed. A few slipped through that should not have been remove and I manually corrected them. This looks like a place (only one I've heard) that those three filters all failed. I'll be doing one or more runs in the future, and will try to be more careful. Question: why is that one not written in the usual way for a molecular formula--should there be a shadow version of the usual way that allows calculation in addition to this form that includes structural detail? DMacks (talk) 03:31, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
I just discovered that the drugbox already supports "shadow formulæ"! Also, I'm not sure why the formula isn't given in empirical form as usual; but the drugbox documentation says "When a molecular formula or structural formula is known, that one should be entered in |chemical_formula=", so I don't want to change it without discussion, and that's frankly not worth it. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 07:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

ATC code templatesEdit

Howdy,

Currently, templates for ATC codes are under the names of the categories, not under a format such as Template:ATC code A10 (instead it's Template:Oral hypoglycemics and insulin analogs. Was there a previous discussion as to these templates being named for their names instead of their ATC codes? If so/not, would it be better to name them under Template:ATC code A10 for example, and what would be the proper way to get a consensus to do this? If not, should redirects from formats such as Template:ATC code A10 be created to the named templates so as to assist people creating articles on members of those classes? Thanks bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 17:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Basically I think it is a good idea to move these navigation templates, with one caveat: Template:ATC code A etc. have very similar names but serve a quite different purpose. Would this confuse people? --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 19:03, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
I’m not sure. Maybe those should be moved to Template:ATC category A, as that’s more descriptive? Technically, “A” isn’t an ATC code in and of itself. But that’s getting into a whole other can of worm-changes. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 21:56, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
@Anypodetos: figured I'd ping just in case, also noting that I have invited WP:MED to input on this topic by linking to this section from their talk page. If anyone knows other interested parties/projects that may have information/opinions I ask you to please invite them here as this has been bugging me for a few weeks :) bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 03:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
@Berchanhimez: there's certainly no problem in creating redirects (we say "redirects are cheap") and you would be more than welcome to do that job if you wanted to. I see there are 119 templates in Category:Drug templates by ATC, so it should be a manageable task. --RexxS (talk) 13:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
yes would agree w/ RexxS--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:05, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@RexxS and Ozzie10aaaa: - would creating the redirects cause any problems/make it more difficult to switch the primary template later? If there is a redirect, does it really matter which name is the "actual" one? As far as I have read up a redirect would work the same way as the regular template, but if it would cause any issues I'd rather just work on compiling a list and then once it's decided whether Template:ATC code X0 or Template:Class of drugs should be the name, then move them all and redirect the other names. If there's literally no reason not to create the redirects, I can compile a list and start on creating them (manually, probably, given there's only 120ish) later tonight. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 17:12, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@Berchanhimez: redirects will not cause any problems or make things more difficult. The difference between the redirect and the 'actual' template is that the Category:Drug templates by ATC goes on the 'actual' page, so that is the name which appears on the category page. Articles where the template is placed will display exactly the same whether they contain the redirect or the 'actual' ATC template. --RexxS (talk) 17:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@RexxS: Would it be a good idea to categorize these redirects in something such as Category:Redirects to named ATC code templates or something? I'll go ahead and work on creating the redirects later on tonight when I'm back home since there's no problem. Thanks for all the help - trying not to break things :P bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 17:40, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
@Berchanhimez: here's some light reading for you: Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 18:36, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Berchanhimez, just to provide you some perspective how this was managed in other areas. We encountered a similar issue in the medicine and anatomy spaces over the last few years. Both were managed by putting all the templates or links on respective pages (anatomy - Wikipedia:WikiProject Anatomy/Templates, medicine - {{Medicine_navs}}). In both cases we removed most of the identifiers (which in your case is ATC) because the are not useful to readers, crowd the template name and make it harder to read, and force some content to be or not to be in templates, which occasionally doesn't match the way our articles are structured. Additionally once one identifier is used it is very tempting for some editors to want to add their own identifiers and then it just becomes a mess. Medicine still retains a lot of the identifiers such as ICD codes, whereas in the anatomy space where we had quite a few terms we used a bot (requested here WP:BOTREQ) to move them all to Wikidata and remove them from the templates, as we felt they were not really useful at all. --Tom (LT) (talk) 11:23, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
@Tom (LT): Hmm, this is definitely some food for thought. It may be a good idea to list them at Wikipedia:WikiProject Pharmacology/List of ATC navboxes or similar, and then not even need the redirects - that also keeps it clearer what the templates are when the page is edited. I got quite busy the end of this week so haven't had time to look into this more yet but I'll start with that I think instead of the redirects (then just bookmark that page). bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 05:27, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

List createdEdit

List of {{Navbox}} templates by ATC code (view/edit)
edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit edit
Templates
ATC code A
ATC code Template link
A01 {{Stomatological preparations}}
A02 A02A {{Antacids}}
A02B {{Drugs for peptic ulcer and GORD}}
A03 {{Drugs for functional gastrointestinal disorders}}
A04 {{Antiemetics}}
A05 {{Bile and liver therapy}}
A06 {{Laxatives}}
A07 {{Antidiarrheals, intestinal anti-inflammatory and anti-infective agents}}
A08 {{Antiobesity preparations}}
A09 {{Digestives}}
A10 {{Oral hypoglycemics and insulin analogs}}
A11 {{Vitamins}}
A12 {{Mineral supplements}}
A13 No products assigned
A14 A14A {{Androgens and antiandrogens}}
A14B No products assigned
A15 {{Appetite stimulants}}
A16 {{Other alimentary tract and metabolism products}}
ATC code B
ATC code Template link
B01 {{Antithrombotics}}
B02 {{Antihemorrhagics}}
B03 {{Antianemic preparations}}
B04 Not used
B05 {{Blood substitutes and perfusion solutions}}
B06 {{Other hematological agents}}
ATC code C
ATC code Template link
C01 C01A {{Cardiac glycosides}}
C01B {{Antiarrhythmic agents}}
C01C {{Cardiac stimulants excluding cardiac glycosides}}
C01D {{Vasodilators used in cardiac diseases}}
C02 {{Sympatholytic antihypertensives}} and {{Nonsympatholytic vasodilatory antihypertensives}}
C03 {{Diuretics}}
C04 {{Peripheral vasodilators}}
C05 {{Vasoprotectives}}
C06 Not used.
C07 {{Beta blockers}}
C08 No template, contained in {{Ion channel modulators}}
C09 {{Agents acting on the renin-angiotensin system}}
C10 {{Lipid modifying agents}}
ATC code D
ATC code Template link
D01 {{Antifungals}} (combined with J02)
D02 {{Emollients and protectives}}
D03 {{Preparations for treatment of wounds and ulcers}}
D04 {{Antipruritics}}
D05 {{Antipsoriatics}}
D06 {{Antibiotics and chemotherapeutics for dermatological use}}
D07 {{Glucocorticoids and antiglucocorticoids}}
D08 {{Antiseptics and disinfectants}}
D09 {{Medicated dressings}}
D10 {{Acne-treating agents}}
D11 {{Other dermatological preparations}}
ATC code G
ATC code Template link
G01 {{Gynecological anti-infectives and antiseptics}}
G02 G02A {{Uterotonics}}
G02B {{Birth control methods}} (with G03A)
G02CA {{Labor repressants}}
G02CB {{Prolactin inhibitors and anti-inflammatory products for vaginal administration}}
G02CC
G03 G03A {{Birth control methods}} (with G02B)
G03B included in {{Androgens and antiandrogens}}
G03C included in {{Estrogens and antiestrogens}}
G03D included in {{Progestogens and antiprogestogens}}
G03E combination products of the above - no specific template
G03F
G03G {{GnRH and gonadotropins}}
G03H included in {{Androgens and antiandrogens}}
G03X {{Other sex hormones and modulators of the genital system}}
G04 G04A not used
G04B {{Urologicals, including antispasmodics}}, see also G04BE below.
G04BE {{Drugs for erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation}}
G04C {{Drugs used in benign prostatic hypertrophy}}
ATC code H
ATC code Template link
H01 {{Pituitary and hypothalamic hormones and analogues}}
H02 {{Corticosteroids}}
H03 {{Thyroid therapy}}
H04 Only member is Glucagon - no template
H05 {{Calcium homeostasis}}
ATC code J
ATC code Template link
J01 J01A {{Protein synthesis inhibitor antibiotics}}
J01B
J01F
J01G
J01C {{Cell wall disruptive antibiotics}}
J01D
J01E {{Nucleic acid inhibitors}}
J01M
J01X {{Other antibacterials}}
J02 {{Antifungals}} (with D01)
J03 Not used
J04 {{Antimycobacterials}}
J05 {{DNA antivirals}}
{{RNA antivirals}}
{{Antiretroviral drug}}
J06 {{Immune sera and immunoglobulins}}
J07 {{Vaccines}}
ATC code L
ATC code Template link
L01 {{Chemotherapeutic agents}}
{{Targeted cancer therapeutic agents}}
L02 Contained within:
{{Androgens and antiandrogens}}
{{Estrogens and antiestrogens}}
{{Progestogens and antiprogestogens}}
{{GnRH and gonadotropins}}
L03 {{Immunostimulants}}
L04 {{Immunosuppressants}}
ATC code M
ATC code Template link
M01 M01A contained within {{Anti-inflammatory products}}
M01B combination products (no template)
M01C {{Antirheumatic products}}
M02 {{Topical products for joint and muscular pain}}
Partially contained within {{Anti-inflammatory products}}
M03 {{Muscle relaxants}}
M04 {{Antigout preparations}}
M05 {{Drugs for treatment of bone diseases}}
M09 Others - no template
ATC code N
ATC code Template link
N01 N01A {{General anesthetics}}
N01B {{Local anesthetics}}
N02 N02A {{Analgesics}}
N02B
N02C {{Antimigraine preparations}}
N03 {{Anticonvulsants}}
N04 {{Antiparkinson agents}}
N05 N05A {{Antipsychotics}}
N05B {{Anxiolytics}}
N05C {{Hypnotics and sedatives}}
N06 N06A {{Antidepressants}}
N06B Contained within {{Stimulants}}
N06C Combinations (no template)
N06D {{Anti-dementia drugs}}
N07 N07A Contained within {{Cholinergics}}
N07B {{Drugs used in addictive disorders}}
N07C {{Antivertigo preparations}}
N07X {{Other nervous system drugs}}
ATC code P
ATC code Template link
P01 {{Chromalveolate antiparasitics}}
{{Excavata antiparasitics}}
{{Agents against amoebozoa}}
P02 {{Anthelmintics}}
P03 {{Anti-arthropod medications}}
ATC code R
ATC code Template link
R01 {{Nasal preparations}}
R02 {{Throat preparations}}
R03 {{Drugs for obstructive airway diseases}}
R04 Not used
R05 {{Cough and cold preparations}}
R06 {{Antihistamines}}
R07 {{Other respiratory system products}}
ATC code S
ATC code Template link
S01 S01A {{Ophthalmological anti-infectives}}
S01B Contained within:
{{Glucocorticoids and antiglucocorticoids}}
{{Mineralocorticoids and antimineralocorticoids}}
{{Glucocorticoid receptor modulators}}
{{Anti-inflammatory_products}}
S01C Combinations (no template)
S01E {{Antiglaucoma preparations and miotics}}
S01F {{Mydriatics and cycloplegics}}
S01G No template
{{Nasal preparations}} is nonspecific
S01H {{Local anesthetics}}
S01J No template
S01K
S01L {{Ocular vascular disorder agents}}
S01X No template
Suggest: {{Other ophthalmologicals}}
S02 {{Otologicals}} (needs completed)
S03 No template
ATC code V
ATC code Template link
V01 No template
V02 Not used
V03 V03AB {{Antidotes}}
V03AC {{Chelating agents}}
V03AE {{Drugs for treatment of hyperkalemia and hyperphosphatemia}}
V03AF {{Detoxifying agents for antineoplastic treatment}}
V03AG {{Other therapeutic products}} (needs expanding)
V03AH
V03AK
V03AM
V03AN
V03AX
V03AZ
V04 {{Diagnostic agents}}
V05 Not used
V06 No template
V07
V08 {{Contrast media}}
V09 {{Diagnostic radiopharmaceuticals}}
V10 {{Therapeutic radiopharmaceuticals}}
V20 No template (only one member - Surgical dressings)

So, after finally finding the time to do it, I finished compiling the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Pharmacology/List of ATC navboxes - and it can be transcluded to other pages as appropriate (ex: Wikipedia:WikiProject Pharmacology/Templates, which I added it to) to assist people in finding them easier when creating new articles/editing others.

@Anypodetos, RexxS, Ozzie10aaaa, and Tom (LT): pinging as past participants in this discussion. Now that there's a compiled list of them - what are peoples' thoughts on any form of renaming/name standardization?

Furthermore - I'll note that there's a few ATC codes that don't have navboxes and a few that are incomplete - I'm going to try to tackle those sometime but if anyone else looks and feels like creating them, please feel free to and add it to the appropriate list. An example of this is S01X which has enough products in it to probably merit a navbox template, but doesn't have one yet.

Thanks to all for the input and hopefully this can help. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 02:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

  • Just as an example, I went through and split Template:B03, B05, B06 into three separate navboxes and updated the articles that transcluded them. I'm sure there's many more navboxes in this group of ATC code navboxes that need "fixing" or "tidying" in a similar way. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 03:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
I just wanted to say that the table you created above is really valuable and we should copy it to WP:PHARM:TEMPL, but you already did :-) Thanks for all the work you are putting into these navboxes!
For the record, I have no strong opinion on how they should be named. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
I'm glad you think it's helpful! To be quite frank, I probably am spending way too much time on this, but it's what made me the most reserved about trying to start creating articles that don't exist is that there wasn't any compilation of navboxes - that's how I found out that lente insulin and ultralente insulin didn't have articles was by seeing them in a navbox, clicking them, and getting redirected (one was a stub, but I can't remember which). bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 08:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

New templatesEdit

So... do with this what everyone will, but you can now use {{ATC navboxes}} as an easy way to add ATC code-based navbox templates to articles (and on top of that, wrap them so they don't look like navbox overload). The input is similar to this: {{ATC navboxes|A01|B01|C01A}} and will produce something like this:

It works for every ATC code that has either its own dedicated template, or is significantly covered in another template. There's a few codes that have more than one template associated with them (looking at you ATC code P01), so I created wrappers for them such as Template:ATC code P01 as I couldn't think of a better way to allow them to be used but not be inaccurate. Please feel free to give feedback on this and I can try to improve it some more - hopefully this is helpful to you all. Now all that's needed is an easy way to see all pages that have more than one ATC code template on them... bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 08:44, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Seeking some opinions about template renamingEdit

I have proposed a move of {{Antibiotics social and layman issues}}. Please comment here: Template_talk:Antibiotics_social_and_layman_issues. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Requests for some simplificationEdit

Hi all, I've been running through a lot of templates in the medicine space (have a look at WP:TfD) just as sort of a gnomish maintenance exercise. Many pharmacological templates are quite complex and technical - fair enough.

However, this template seems intended as a general topic overview. I can't make head or tail of it, and I've been editing in the medicine / anatomy space for like 6 years now, I can only imagine what lay readers make of it. Some comments:

  • I'm unclear about the scope here... is it just listing all types of things that act at receptors? If that's the case why is it called "pharmacomodulation" and not something like "Substances which act at receptors"?
  • Why is there a list of receptors and a heading "type"
  • What do all the acronyms mean, and do they need to be there?

Could I request some eyes and hopefully some hands to simplify or elaborate a bit on the contents? That way it can be as intended, a useful navigational aid to our readers  . Cheers --Tom (LT) (talk) 01:35, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

  So, I'll preface by admitting I haven't checked every single one right now. But per what I saw when I was going through the ATC code templates a bit ago, I'm almost positive that every single one of those sections under "Classes" (or to the side of, to be exact) has its own template. As an example, {{Adrenergic receptor modulators}}, {{Dopamine receptor modulators}}, {{Opioid receptor modulators}} (used on Opioidergic and possibly that should be redirected to Opioid instead, but that's an aside). I think a good start would be to just rip all the specific templates out of the general template, and include the general template and a more specific one on the page, or to include the information here in each of the more specific templates. I've attempted to make a start at a re-organization without the specific "classes" of receptor (ant)agonists included at {{User:Berchanhimez/sandbox}} - please feel free to take it and/or edit it as you see fit. I am not sure if I will have much time this week to look at it more unfortunately. I think it's a judgement as to whether this should include every modulation that has drugs for it (imo no because huge template results, like it is now), or whether this template should just be an overview of general topic pages and not include any specific classes/types/things that actually are modulated (yes imo). bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 02:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Routes of administration/dosage form templateEdit

Hello,

I would appreciate input at Template talk:Routes of administration, dosage forms regarding my proposed reorganization of the template, as members of this WikiProject may be interested in said template. Thank you in advance, -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 06:07, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

MEDLINE vs EmbaseEdit

Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Change guidance about indexing in bibliographic databases to be open to non-MEDLINE indexed journals? would probably benefit from someone who knows something about Embase. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:50, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

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