Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera/Archive 128

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Franziska Romana Koch

I have just completed this.. and I am surely believe it needs a bit of tender loving care. Feel free to check / edit. Thanks. --Jay (talk) 11:30, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

TLC applied: DYK ... that after the ballet dancer Franziska Romana Koch sang in the opera Alceste which was composed for her, its librettist celebrated her performance in a poem? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Marianne Müller

Done with this too. Feel free to check and add on. Thanks. --Jay (talk) 19:57, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Inconsistency in Opera articles navigation templates

Hi guys, I noticed our navigation templates have changed, and some of the top-right vertical templates are no longer being used, such as Template:Giordano operas, Template:Orff operas, Template:Davies operas, Template:Suppé operas, Template:Heggie operas. I also noticed the inconsistency in the usage of navigation template in opera articles.

1. Some of opera articles have both type of templates, the top-right vertical and the horizontal at the bottom, for example, Rossini’s La gazza ladra.
2. Some articles are using the vertical template only, for example, Rameau’s Les fêtes de l'Hymen et de l'Amour.
3. Some articles are using the horizontal template only, for example, Smetana’s The Bartered Bride.

I have received 4 deletion nomination for vertical templates, in which 3 have been deleted because they are no longer being used. I created many of these templates back in 2007 / 2008 when they were our standard navigation templates. I am OK with the new version (horizontal) but it has to be consistent. If we want to use the horizontal type, then, the vertical templates should be removed / replaced from all opera articles. Let’s discuss about this. --Jay (talk) 14:13, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

It can't be consistent overnight. The tendency is toward the horizontal, consistent with other navboxes. For many composers, opera is just a little part of their work. - Wikipedia has greater problems than this inconsistency ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:31, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Bianca e Fernando misquote in Weinstock Bellini: His life and His Operas (1971)?

I have doubts about the following quote in Bianca_e_Fernando#Performance_history:

...he not only followed the method of those numerous servile imitators of the Rossinian style who, lacking that master's genius and distinction, remained unaware that in the fine arts, not copies, but creations are wanted, not imitations, but originality.

From context it should be a positive quote, but seems rather damning presented like this. Is part of the quote missing? The reference comes from p.241 of

• Weinstock, Herbert (1971), Bellini: His life and His Operas, New York: Knopf. ISBN 0394416562

Can anyone check it? Scarabocchio (talk) 22:28, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

As the article says, that is Weinstock quoting the opinion of the publisher of the score. " Weinstock includes an extract from the opera's publisher, Antonio Tosi"Smeat75 (talk) 00:39, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

This I had understood, but it seemed questionable that his own publisher should described Bellini as following 'the method of those numerous servile imitators of the Rossinian style ... lacking that master's genius'. Scarabocchio (talk) 06:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Hats off to Scarabocchio! Whoever added that to the article had got the completely wrong end of the stick. Antonio Tosi was not the opera's publisher. He was the publisher and critic for Rivista Teatrale di Roma and Weinstock was quoting Tosi's review of the 1837 Rome revival [1]. I've now expanded, corrected, and referenced that section, but the article needs more work. It has a top-heavy lead, most which should be in a "Background" section, with only a brief summary in the lead. Voceditenore (talk) 12:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Don Giovanni

Editors may wish to comment on the discussion here concerning the synopsis. Voceditenore (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Issues with Virginia Zeani article

An IP has posted details of problems with the article for the Romanian soprano Virginia Zeani, on WP:Women in Red, here. The concerns are as follows:

I was directed to the page of Virginia Zeani today, by someone noting that the bulk of the BLP article was plagiarised/wholly unattributed. Indeed, I found a half dozen sections or so, all with material that had been section tagged since 2015 as unsourced. I pasted the mess into Talk, and began searching for sources, and moving sourced, verifiable content back into the article. Problem is, (a) I am now in business, and not academia, and so academic references in the humanities and arts are unavailable to me, (b) I am not an expert, or even a devotee, and so even the non-professionals access to these sources. So, for instance, I can only access a snippet version of the Grove Book of Opera Singers, etc., etc.

Hence, I would call this to your attention, for a careful return of the article to a more complete version, after the few days work that would be required to make it encyclopedic, rather than sixth form plagiarised in quality and honesty. Cheers, hope someone with biography and music background can turn their attention, or at least properly post this. Cheers. Le Prof 73.210.155.96 (talk) 23:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Grateful if someone from this project could assist - seems like your territory. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:05, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Tagishsimon. I've left a note on the talk page concerning the rather complicated history of this article and will begin clean-up in the next couple of days. It needs a complete re-write. She is a very prominent singer, but the peacockery is quite out of control and the referencing is poor. I've now assembled some proper references to use. At the moment there is rampant citation overkill, a plethora of poor sources used multiple times for a single assertion. A few good, encyclopedic sources are all that's required. I'd appreciate it if other members (perhaps Michael Bednarek, 4meter4, and others who have edited it in the past) could put this article on watch. Once I start, there may be some pushback from the principle author of the current version who is quite clearly connected to the subject [2] and has the same username as the webmaster of her official website. Voceditenore (talk) 09:53, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Voceditenore. I apologise for the imposition, and am full of gratitude to you for taking on the work; much appreciated. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Is Jon Vickers the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of the disambiguation page on which his name appears?

A discussion regarding the above topic at Talk:John Vickers (disambiguation)#Requested move 18 February 2017 may be of interest. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 21:09, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 10

Issue 10 of the WikiProject X newsletter is here!

This month, we discuss the new CollaborationKit extension. Here's an image as a teaser:

File:CollaborationKit_screenshot_CreateCollaborationHub.png

23:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Nicola Martinucci at AfD

The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nicola Martinucci for members who may wish to comment. Voceditenore (talk) 18:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Update: Nomination withdrawn. Voceditenore (talk) 07:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Merge discussion of interest

At Talk:Atlas: An Opera in Three Parts there is a proposal to merge Atlas (opera) (the original stage work) into the article about a recording of the work, Atlas: An Opera in Three Parts. Voceditenore (talk) 07:38, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Émilie Ambre

I wanted to add the portrait of Émilie Ambre (mentioned in the top box) to a section In art, in Carmen, but there is no such section yet. Anybody to write it? - I created a stub for Françoise de Rimini, help welcome, - there's nothing in French WP and little in Spanish. There must be more in French, but my French is tourist-level, so will better write more on Das Nusch-Nuschi ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Gerda, I'd be wary of creating a section like that in Carmen. There really is only Ambre's portrait by Manet that is both notable as a work of art and specifically related to Bizet's opera as opposed to Mérimée's novella. Perhaps put it as a piped link in a "See also" section or add it to {{Carmen}}? I know Brian Boulton removed the excessive lists of adaptations etc. when he was bringing it up to FA standard. They can rapidly become spam/trivia magnets and detract from the article. Voceditenore (talk) 19:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Opera House Kiel?

We have an article Opera House Kiel, which should be Opernhaus Kiel, if we keep it as a separate article. Please see the talk and discuss there, if we need this AND Theater Kiel, and what they should contain if yes. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:26, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Opera Popular Pages is back. Yay!

Following the successful proposal at the Community Wishlist on Meta to revive the WikiProject Popular Pages Report feature. It's been done. The newly updated page is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Popular pages. Many thanks to the OP members who voted there. Without peeking, guess what article is currently #1.Voceditenore (talk) 20:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

My guess was off by two (i.e., is number 3 in the list). I'm quite curious why number 2 is even on the list -- can anyone explain why it is number 2? Softlavender (talk) 22:01, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Softlavender, I imagine it's because a biopic of that person (played by Meryl Streep, no less) is going to premiere next month. Between Streep having recently "offended" America's 45th president causing a Twitter brouhaha and the studio's advance PR for the film... well... you get the picture. Voceditenore (talk) 07:27, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, haven't had a TV in a few years, and also decent movies don't come where I live (that movie was last year, actually). so I missed the buzz. Putting it on my Amazon Instant Watch List though. Softlavender (talk) 09:09, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Françoise de Rimini

I added a bit to the stub Françoise de Rimini, but it's still lacking info, such as the first performers. The polt is super-short, but now it's a story with its own article, so perhaps acceptable ;) - Help welcome! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I'll have a go at this tomorrow, Gerda. I've already made some improvements in its accuracy and clarity, but it needs a lot more work. I've also found a source for the premiere cast, which I'll also add tomorow. Voceditenore (talk) 19:31, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Relief, thank you! All Italian and French sources are not what I can read easily ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:20, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Fairy tale opera

I wonder if we should begin an article Fairy tale opera, because there seem to be fairly many in different languages. A category might be a start. We have French Opera feerie and de:Märchenoper for a start. Märchenoper takes us to a place where it's reduced to 19th century, but Die Zauberflöte and Die Kluge don't fit ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:54, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me -- some of these are quite dark of course (i.e. Bluebeard's Castle). The article at the Royal Opera House website is also helpful to start. Antandrus (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I worry that it may be questionable to reference Fairy tale opera as a term. Grove online has Opera feerie and Märchenoper but not 'fairy tale opera'. I wonder whether this term in fact exists in English musicological terminology - the only thing I can find so far is this, which is not too helpful in the circumstances....Maybe Fairy tales in opera, as in the ROH article cited by Antandrus, would be a better title.--Smerus (talk) 18:01, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I see that our former French was moved to Fairy-tale opera and tries to cover the different traditions, to be expanded, hopefully. Can an opera with "Märchenoper" as a subtitle or description be simply included there, or would it need a source? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I've known of the word "Märchenoper" for years. Since there are few operas with that designation, I've wondered whether it really means genre, or is really a form of subtitle used to indicate what the opera is about. This kind of double designation is very typical of 18th century stage works (think of "Il barbiere di Siviglia, ossia L'inutile precauzione") in which the title proper could be enigmatic, so the "second" title provides some indication of what the story is about. Thus, my thinking is that "Märchenoper" is not a genre but this kind of 2nd title. - kosboot (talk) 00:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

According to Grove, Märchenoper is a genre; see also de:Märchenoper. The recent move from Opéra féerie to Fairy-tale opera didn't do the article any favours; see Talk:Fairy-tale opera. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:45, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

This is now imo a complete mess. According to Grove and other authorities, (none of which seem to recognize the term "fairy-tale opera") there are two distinct traditions, "Märchenoper" and "Opera fėerie". Then there are other operas that do not fit into either of these categories but have a "fairy-tale" background, such as Iolanthe, The Love of Three Oranges, Die heilige Ente, (or Turandot for that matter) etc. etc. It seems that Wikipedia has invented the term "fairy-tale opera" and has created an article about this invented category bringing these different traditions together, clearly transgressing WP:OR. Can we therefore scrub the existing article and start again on proper WP principles - i.e. separate articles for Märchenoper and Opera fėerie and maybe a separate category, Operas based on fairy tales.Smerus (talk) 09:01, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

While I agree: we will have to translate Märchenoper (unless we leave our readers with just a link), and will arrive at fairy-tale opera, which is no OR. How about an article Fairy-tale opera as a kind of disambiguation, but separate articles for the more clearly defined French and German genres? That article could also cover what doesn't fall exactly into the genres. (And in the end all that possibly gets merged again.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:10, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I think this proposal is correct; there should be separate articles for Märchenoper and Opera fėerie (ideally both including a 'see also' for the other), and the present article could be a disambiguation page.Smerus (talk) 12:27, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Smerus, Michael, Gerda, et al., I'm coming late to this, but one solution for sometime in the future is to stick to Gerda's solution for Fairy-tale opera as a disambiguation page with separate articles on Opéra féerie and Märchenoper and then create a new overview article entitled Fairy tale in opera. That subject is broad, useful, and rather extensively written about [3], [4], [5]. The ROH article pointed out by Antandrus is a good start, but there's a lot of other stuff. Voceditenore (talk) 14:01, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

OT: How do you pronounce Lauritz Melchior?

The host on a (fairly longterm) national radio show is repeatedly saying "low-ritz" (first syllable rhyming with "cow"), but I've always heard "law-ritz" (sort of like "Laurence"). Softlavender (talk) 07:34, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

In between, I'd say the closest rhyme is Dow-Jones. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

That's the way the announcer is pronouncing it (like "cow"). However, are you certain? That would obviously be the way Germans might pronounce it, but he was Danish. Does anyone here speak or know Danish, or can they confirm Danish pronunciation? Softlavender (talk) 07:44, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps I pronouce cow wrong, with a long a, - how about spouse?. The closest common German word to rhyme is Frau, and I never heard an announcer on radio say Lauritz other than Germans would do. Ipigott could speak for the Danish. I remember that we argued over the pronouncation of Buxtehude, until it dawned to me that the other one meant Danish ;) - Laudids looks more Danish, like the Rilke, - perhaps he changed? He may have changed pronunciation when becoming American. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Another question I have is, which syllable gets the accent? I think vaguely remember (at least) some people giving the last syllable the accent (but not this current announcer). Haven't really heard much about him since the 1980s or so, but then this radio program about old records had a show about him today. Anyway, what I could be remembering is people perhaps saying "low-REETZ", so that I wasn't even paying much attention to how the "au" was being pronounced. Softlavender (talk) 09:18, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

• I'm trying to find some interviews or presentations on YouTube that say his first name. Here is an American presentation (2014) where two American speakers pronounce it "LAH-ritz" or "LAW-ritz": [6], [7]. – Softlavender (talk) 09:39, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

The Danish pronunciation of Lau in Lauritz does indeed rhyme with cow. The tonic accent is on the first Syllable. But Danish names are frequently pronounced differently in English. I wouldn't object to Law-ritz as a possible English alternative. After all, English speakers pronounce Andersen as An-der-sen when referring to Hans Christian Andersen whereas in Danish the name is pronounced An-er-sen (with a silent D and an almost silent R).--Ipigott (talk) 11:07, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks very much for that explanation, Ipigott. It could perhaps be the case that when he moved to the U.S. (or the Anglosphere in general) he adapted the pronunciation of his name. (I'm actually not sure how he himself pronounced it once he began performing and living mainly in the Anglosphere.) Softlavender (talk) 01:54, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I forget which one of his films that I've seen where he plays himself and is introduced as "LAU-ritz." There are several radio broadcasts on Youtube (like the one with Jimmy Durante and Judy Garland). - kosboot (talk) 16:41, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Kosboot, is that "LAU" rhyming with "cow", or "LAU" rhyming with "caw"? Softlavender (talk) 01:54, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

LAU as in "cow" or "now." - kosboot (talk) 16:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

LOL at your edit summary! Softlavender (talk) 22:33, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Opera corpus AfD/PROD

The List of notable operas, originally The opera corpus, has been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of notable operas and, unsusually, also been proposed for speedy deletion. The reason in both cases: "redundant to List of important operas". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:30, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

I have returned the article to its original title, which isn't ideal but it is more accurate than the "List of notable operas", which is greatly misleading since the article is a list of composers and their major works. Not sure what's up with the doubling down on attempts to delete it, but I've !voted Keep just now, as this is a massively important resource (and also often the best initial place to add a link to a newly created article on an opera composer). Softlavender (talk) 09:44, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

• Update: The AfD has been speedy closed by an admin. PLEASE NOTE that The opera corpus has now been renamed List of operas by composer, since the old name was ambiguous and non-specific, and did not follow usual naming conventions. Softlavender (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

• Request for help: Now that the article has been renamed, we need to go to find all the wikilinks to it using "What links here", and rename the link in articles that still link to it as "the opera corpus". Not because it won't redirect, but because it's best to have the clear and correct title. Any help on this task is appreciated. Softlavender (talk) 17:07, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

In article space, it looks like just two links to The opera corpus [8], with another dozen linking to List of notable operas, mostly from the {{Opera topics}} template.[9] Scarabocchio (talk) 20:53, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

All done, I think. Scarabocchio (talk) 02:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Archive 128/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Opera.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Opera, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Claudio Monteverdi

Went last night to a production of Poppea commemorating Monteverdi's 450th birthday. Now I see the WP Monteverdi article could do with a substantial rewrite. Anybody fancy giving a hand with this? I am not strong on the period myself but willing to have a go. Smerus (talk) 07:48, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

You can probably find more details in the several FAs about his operas, even his lost ones, by Brianboulton, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:52, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Before my enforced illness and withdrawl last year, the Monteverdi article was high on my "to-do" list – though it kept getting pushed down by the weight and urgency of other projects. I am slowly getting back into the groove again, and will certainly assist you, Smerus, if you wish to proceed with this. I have lots of source materials on my shelves, inc. Arnold & Fortune's Companion (though in the older 1968 version), Redlich's ancient (1952) biography, Ringer's opera book, a splendid analysis of the operas by Tim Carter (Monteverdi's Musical Theatre 2002). I also believe I have Wenham's Cambridge Companion somewhere though I may have used a library copy. There's more online stuff available, e.g. Grove Music Online and scholarly articles via JSTOR (do you have access?) I work rather slowly at present, and among other incipient projects have been dabbling with a minor English composer of the 20th century (Alan Bush), with a view to expanding and updating his article, but if you let me know how you think I can help with Monteverdi I'll be pleased to supply any assistance that I can. Within reason. Brianboulton (talk) 09:13, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks Brian and Gerda, I'm away for the weekend, will resume on this next week. Best, Smerus (talk) 09:13, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

discussion now continuing on the Monteverdi talk page. Smerus (talk) 19:08, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Das geheime Königreich

Help! Finding the premiere cast for Das geheime Königreich, 6 May 1928. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:18, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Michael Bednarek! One of them later seems to have sung Tristan alongside Flagstad, but they all have no article (yet), not even in German. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:07, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Meyerbeer/Order of Leopold

User:Carolus has twice inserted into the article on Giacomo Meyerbeer a new section headed "Honours", with the information that Meyerbeer received the Order of Leopold (Belgium). Meyerbeer received many decorations from European monarchs as a matter of politeness. The Order of Leopold had no effect on his career, and was not significant in any way - the only connection I know of with Belgium is that he occasionally took holidays in Spa. I have therefore deleted Carolus's edit as WP:UNDUE and invite any discussion on the topic at the article talkpage.--Smerus (talk) 10:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

No, selfish man, the membership of Meyerbeer had been important for the order! It is the other way around.--Carolus (talk) 18:11, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Perfect example of [WP:OR]].--Smerus (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

WiR focus on music and dance in July

		Welcome to Women in Red's July 2017 worldwide online editathons.
		File:60C0074BA4FF-1 Джемма Халид.jpg "Women in dance" "Women in music" "Women from India"

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 10:19, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

AfD Alla Ablaberdyeva

There is an AfD discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alla Ablaberdyeva. Voceditenore (talk) 10:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Possible creation of articles about Mozart's original singers

Personally, I find it very interesting to read about the various singers who premiered 18th century operatic works, and especially to compare the roles in which a particular singer performed. I find that this gives me a better idea of what an opera might have originally sounded like, as we know that Mozart and other prominent composers of the era would often be aware of the cast and their respective vocal abilities, range, quality, quirks, etc. before writing.

This being said, my favorite part of the opera articles on Wikipedia is often the premiere cast list. What is most interesting is the similarity in the Vienna cast for Mozart's three mature Italian operas as well as other prominent Italian operas that were premiered around this time, my favorite of these being Il matrimonio segreto. When I looked into it, I found out that the singers were all part of an opera buffa company that was sponsored by the emperor.

Considering the importance of these Mozart operas and the very interesting and appealing fact that there was a company of singers who Mozart and the other prominent composers of the day wrote for regularly, I find it surprising that there are not articles about the more significant members of the company or at the very least an article on the company itself. Benucci (Figaro, Vienna Leporello, Guglielmo, and Il matrimonio segreto's Count Robinson), Storace (Susanna), Gottlieb (Barbarina and Pamina!), and Kelly (Paisellio's Count Almaviva, Basilio/Don Curzio) all have fantastic articles, and much shorter ones exist for some other singers who were in the company.

However, there is no article for Francesco Bussani, who premeried Bartolo, was the Vienna Commendatore/Masetto, and Don Alfonso, and also seems to be quite a colorful character: http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095538291

Nor is there a page for his wife, Dorotea Bussani, who was also member of the company. There is, however, an article on her in the italian Wikipedia: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorotea_Bussani

It is quite short and lacks many personal details other than the date of her marriage and who her father was. It does state some of her roles, such as Cherubino, Despina, and Fidalma in Il matrimonio segreto.

Also interesting might pages be: Stefano Mandini (Count Almaviva), who was married to Maria Mandini (Marcellina): https://muse.jhu.edu/article/638260 Luisa Laschi (Countess Almaviva: http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195337655.001.0001/acref-9780195337655-e-840 Francesco Albertarelli (Vienna Don Giovanni): http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195337655.001.0001/acref-9780195337655-e-22?rskey=SyFcF2&result=1

I began to start a new article, but was quickly overwhelmed technical aspects of article creation. To this end I posted this here with the hope that someone will think my proposed project is worthwhile.

96.236.221.120 (talk) 21:07, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Of possible interest 2

My state classical-music NPR station has a weekly art song program (previously called Great Songs, now called Singing and Other Sins because nowadays people call anything that can be downloaded a "song"). It is the only radio program in the world that focuses on art song. The station has a new website format and all of the archived episodes are free to listen to: [10]. Over the years the show has also done exclusive interviews: I particularly recommend the 2013–2016 interviews with Ned Rorem, and the two-part 2013 interview with Christa Ludwig(!). Just Control+F interview. Most programs are not interviews but rather artsong programs with well-informed commentary. Anyway, check out the various episodes if you like! Softlavender (talk) 04:03, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for this, Softlavender! Best, Voceditenore (talk) 21:19, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Welcome. I notice now that although the show has been airing weekly since 1988, there are no archived shows prior to 2012 for whatever reason. I also notice that the webpage is not actually on HPR but on a website (belonging to the host Gary Hickling) dedicated to Lotte Lehmann, which is a very interesting site in and of itself. Softlavender (talk) 21:39, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

By the way, I just discovered there is a rather messy wiki article on Hickling's Lotte Lehmann Foundation. It needs help, if anyone cares to clean it up. Softlavender (talk) 20:56, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes, "rather messy" is quite an understatement. I've removed a whole load of non-references, i.e. those simply linking to the home page of various people's official websites which verify nothing actually said in the WP article, and formatted the others, none of which are third party. For now that's all I have time for, perhaps someone will take it on. All of which reminds me... I've just rescued Jeannette Aster from the puffy/promo "improvements" made by (presumably) the article's subject [11]. But that one also needs better refs too and perhaps an extra set of eyes. Voceditenore (talk) 10:57, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! I did an additional round of little touch-ups. It looks better now, though indeed it could use third-party citations and some explanatory dates, as well as a thorough copyedit both for sense and to clean out any leftover trivia. By the way, you might want to make a separate thread on the Jeannette Aster article, to generate more interest. Softlavender (talk) 21:19, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Donizetti operas that need some eyes

A newish editor started "revamping" the following operas a few months ago:

• La straniera
• Pia de' Tolomei
• Maria de Rudenz
• Imelda de' Lambertazzi
• Fausta (opera)
• Marino Faliero (opera)

My impression was that there was an awful lot of potential original research, personal opinion, and unreferenced claims being added. The editor responsible has been rather aggressive but has now been indefinitely blocked, so it's safe to wade in. Note that Fausta has already had multiple revisions deleted because of copyvio from the editor in question. There may be more in the others. Volunteers? Voceditenore (talk) 21:42, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Through it maybe an off-topic, but... A sad misprint has crept into Article *Poliuto that should be fixed. In section "Synopsis", Mitilene, capital of Lesbos Island in North Aegean Region, is mentioned as a place of action, instead of Melitene, a region in the north of Armenia Minor (modern Malatya). 212.34.225.50 (talk) 09:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks very much 212.34.225.50. Voceditenore (talk) 10:08, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Rappresentatione di Anima, et di Corpo

Help! Rappresentatione di Anima, et di Corpo was claimed by the composer to have been the first opera, but our article doesn't even have an English translation of the title, a location of first performance, something about the topic. I could dig, but have some other projects. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I'll have a go at this tomorrow, Gerda. There's quite a lot written about it, but the article needs a fair amount of work. It premiered in Rome by the way. Voceditenore (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Pagliacci trivia

I have just reverted an IP who re-added the massive and almost entirely unreferenced "In popular culture section". In my edit summary I referred to the discussion on the talk page from 2010 which had a clear consensus for the removal of sections of that type. Members might want to keep an eye on the article and the talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 08:20, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Telemann 250 years

.. that he died 25 June 1767, soon! He composed many operas, incomplete list here, all blue links are stubs. I volunteer for expanding Don Quichotte, based on German, - anybody else? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:53, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

this serves as inspiration: pieces that have been staged in the last 100 years in the town Magdeburg, connected to him. Theater Magdeburg would also be nice, and expanding Magdeburger Telemann-Festtage. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Hi Gerda. I've turned Theater Magdeburg blue, in a bare-bones sort of way. But I'm immersed in 19th-century Naples at the moment, so I shall have to give Herr Telemann's works a miss . Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:36, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Most of Don Quichotte auf der Hochzeit des Comacho was not created in 2012 but just now ;) - I started the librettist, expansion welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I know, Gerda, but the list at the top is for newly created articles, not DYKs or expansions of old articles. That's why I removed it from there. Voceditenore (talk) 14:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

PS I've re-added mention of the opera at the New article list via adding Daniel Schiebeler which is a new article. Voceditenore (talk) 14:26, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for adding, but now I really feel like I have to expand him now, instead of just making the ugly red link go away, and expand later ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, if you would enjoy expanding it, of course, go for it. But there's nothing wrong with a short but accurate entry that provides the basic facts and references which allow the reader to find out more. Such entries are perfectly valid and encyclopedic. Voceditenore (talk) 15:12, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I enjoy saying that he wrote the libretto based on the original, - such little details that make a person who died more than 200 years ago, more accessible. - I'd have a harder time with Ruth Siewert, - for the moment see just long lists of places, no music but Erda. Help welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:21, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Almost an opera: Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher

Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher: I saw a fascinating production at the Frankfurt Opera. As it is called a dramatic oratorio, I gave it an infobox Musical composition. Or should it be Opera? Anyway, a poor IP was blocked for reverting several people who reverted it. I feel sorry for the IP. What do others think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:29, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it was a fantastic move by Ritchie, the blocking admin. We could do with less IPs who go about acting like idiots. Cassianto^Talk 14:53, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

"As it is called a dramatic oratorio, I gave it an infobox Musical composition. Or should it be Opera?" I don't really follow the logic here. Neither dramatic oratorios nor operas automatically get those boxes added to their articles.Smeat75 (talk) 15:20, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "automatic". It takes the effort of editors. - Look for Giulio Cesare on top. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Several operas were staged by David Hermann, - mentioned in his article: Ascanio in Alba, Rigoletto, Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher, Macbeth, Věc Makropulos, Les Troyens, Boris Godunov, Das Rheingold, Rusalka, La traviata, Der Diktator, Das geheime Königreich. Compare. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I've added and clarified the information about the Rossellini production staged at the Teatro San Carlo in 1953 and the subsequent release of it as a film. The original wording in the article was misleading, unclear, and unreferenced. The issue of oratorios staged as if they were operas is a common one. Semele, technically an oratorio but almost invariably now staged as an opera, is a case in point. If it were me I'd use the opera box, with "oratorio" as the genre/type and include only the librettist and date and place of the premiere. I say that because the opera box has more apt labels, e.g. "libretto" instead of "text", and "premiere" instead of the ambiguous "performed". Having said all that, the atmosphere is sufficiently poisonous at the article that I would leave out any sort of box. It's not worth the aggro. Voceditenore (talk) 09:29, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

RfC regarding the WP:Lead guideline -- the first sentence

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Request for comment on parenthetical information in first sentence. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Fylbecatulous talk 11:49, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Siri Thornhill

Siri Thornhill (or a user of her - full - name) updated her article, which then looked unsourced. I simply reverted, and am traveling. Please watch. Yes, the article was certainly dated, but old refs are better than a singer's website ;) - If she now uses her full name, it could be moved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it, Gerda. Having said that, the original version is pretty dire too. It's basically a program bio sourced to other official bios. There is not a single truly independent source, not a single independent review. The bach-cantatas site, on which this article is overwhelmingly based, is an unsuitable reference for these biographies. Frankly, I think its use should be avoided. Thornhill herself contributed to her bio on bach-cantatas, and in general they are simply copy pastes/direct translations from official bios. Voceditenore (talk) 07:51, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

PS I've also added a notice on Talk:Siri Thornhill indicating that the copyright violation (verbatim pasted from her website) has been removed and that future additions which are copyvios will be summarily removed. Voceditenore (talk) 07:57, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, - it's not new to me but as I said before, I was on my way out. Now in the train, I can improve a bit, before turning to another wonderful soprano. Some biographical information will always rely on the subject's information. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Chemnitz

Chemnitz has an Opernhaus Chemnitz, and (as of today) Theater Chemnitz. Do we still need the article on the house? It has a lot of technical info in German, but is just a stub here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, Gerda, I just got BOLD and redirected Opernhaus Chemnitz to Theater Chemnitz. There is nothing to stop anyone in the future creating separate articles on all three of its main venues, but for now this seems like a sensible solution. In any case, it's useful to have an all-encompassing article for the overall organization. I did the same thing with Theater Magdeburg. These sorts of German theater articles have to be carefully worded, because the municipal and state "Theaters" in Germany are often umbrella organizations administering multiple companies and venues. When that is the case, it needs to be made clear to the reader. Otherwise it gets very confusing. Voceditenore (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, very helpful! I recently expanded also Theater Münster, Theater Bonn and Stadttheater Minden, - all just a beginning, but better than a red link. Couldn't believe that the first house boldly built in Germany after World War II and the house in the temporary capital had just one-liners for articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Just noticed this thread and wanted to ask Gerda Arendt: Is there any evidence that the town was once called Karl-Marx-Stadt? - kosboot (talk) 23:45, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

We have an article on Chemnitz. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:45, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

It was called that within the living memory of most adults, including myself. If you feel it needs a reliably published source, I'm sure you could find it (and the restoration of the earlier name) mentioned in any book dealing with Die Wende. --Hegvald (talk) 01:17, 6 September 2017 (UTC)