Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Video game characters

Next step: C-class Article Improvement Drive

With all the start-class articles pushed to C outside of a few lists we're still figuring out, we're moving onward and going to try and bring those C-class articles to B or higher! While this may seem daunting, consider the fact that we're almost halfway there as is. Reaching there, by the end of the year, is entirely tangible if we work together!

So to that end, Cukie has set up a list of all the C-class articles by game here: User:Cukie Gherkin/B drive

We can use this section here to develop ideas on how to approach the articles, consider any that may be worth merging, or sources that may help across the board in certain genres. We pulled off something pretty major with the previous articles: I don't think in the history of the VG project as a whole has there been no Start-class character articles overall. If that doesn't fill you with pride I don't know what will. Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:41, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

At some point in the future, I'd be willing to work with someone to improve Aloy. It's been on my to do list for awhile. -- ZooBlazer 19:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Two thoughts:

• I'm going to take a shot at Kim Kitsuragi.
• Lord British and Avatar (Ultima) don't really have meaningful reception. I say that having looked for it, as a fan of the series.

Shooterwalker (talk) 19:41, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I know, unfortunately there's been a mixed issue with Lord British where people have been uncertain where to merge it, and trying to brute force the Ultima Online incident as making him notable.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:56, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

The good news is there are 300 other character articles to work on. When there is no consensus, sometimes editing (or the lack thereof) allows a consensus to form. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

That's what I'm thinking. At some point people will have to look at the quality gap and go "why can't this improve farther"?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 23:41, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Two things: y'all might want to pin this discussion so it doesn't get archived, and for motivation's sake you should note how many C-class articles there were at the start of this drive (currently, there's 280 C-class). Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 22:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

A little over a month later, y'all are now at 261 C-class articles. SilverTiger12 (talk) 19:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

We are now down to 254. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

And now at 190 GA, 250 B, and 230 C. No change in the number of FAs, though, which y'all should consider eventually. Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 18:53, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I'll be completely honest, I don't feel FAs are going to be a big or mainstream thing with character articles and will likely not be worth the stress for most of them.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Given the number of articles we still have to improve at this point, we're likely better off working on improving what's there instead of stressing ourselves with the intense scrutiny of making FAs. FAs tend to be way harder to do and have way longer processes. There's not much benefit, if I'm being honest. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 19:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I think being able to present your work on the Main Page is a pretty good benefit, but I also don't envy people who nominate in the process. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see many characters necessarily having the material for a FA to be possible. Maybe having all Top-importance character articles at FA (since probably all of them have high-quality sourcing available) would be a long-term goal to consider? Easier said than done though. λ NegativeMP1 20:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how that could be an issue. The comprehensiveness criteria only requires covering all the major points according to reliable sources, it doesn't require you to cover anything for which sourcing does not exist. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

The character index

The instructions on the character index page say that the index should use the task force importance ratings, but most characters are currently classified under the importance ratings for the main project. I would appreciate help fixing this. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Update: Some characters are entirely incorrect, it seems. Sans (Undertale) was listed as Low-Importance even though we have him at High and the main project has him at Mid. Some class ratings likely also need updates. Like I said, I would appreciate help fixing the ratings on the index. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. I believed that it one was created just to track the character articles. You can't even see the importance ratings on that page either way. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 13:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@QuicoleJR I really believe the importance scale is more of a formality than anything official, and shouldn't be fussed over this hard.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:11, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Greenish Pickle! and Kung Fu Man: My issue is not a focus on importance ratings, my problem is that the index is currently inaccurate. I am trying to fix that inaccuracy. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

And I'm trying to explain to you it's not that big a deal: there's always going to be some one arguing one thing is Mid and the other is Low. I'd rather just nuke Mid entirely. There are more important things to fix and finish.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:14, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I agree with you on nuking Mid for this project. I think having Top, High, and Low/Normal would be better here. However, while they are here, I don't see why we should leave the index with incorrect information. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Actually, a better idea might be removing the importance ratings from the index. The list and class ratings are the important part of the index, and the index doesn't really need to show the importance ratings. Also, like Greenish Pickle said, they are not easy to see. If I could figure out how to do it and didn't edit on mobile, I would do it myself. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Proposal: Disable Mid-Importance while keeping the others

Several task force members have stated their support for only using Top, High, and Low as importance ratings. I think this would make things much simpler and stop a good number of arguments from happening. Mid is the most subjective of all of the ratings. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. I feel this will help get rid of the debating of category importance from various users, and allow us to have a less subjective ranking of characters. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 16:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I can understand the rationale here, but I disagree with that rationale. Not only would getting rid of mid-importance be fairly unorthodox compared to the project (and the rest of Wikipedia, for that matter), but it serves as a compromise per Shooterwalker's statement below. I really don't see how getting rid of Mid-importance would solve anything, it's not even that big of a deal or a point of contention. Edit warring over importance ratings is dumb, and it's not like any more than three people are going to be actively looking at importance ratings. Debates about importance ratings aren't going to be that common. Just keep the status quo. λ NegativeMP1 22:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
2. I share similar sentiments with Negative here. Whilst I understand the positives of getting rid of the mid importance tag, I think the positives can't outweigh the negatives. It would not align with the main Wikiproject and I can see this just making more arguments with editors rational-ing why a former mid importance article should be either now low or high. To me, instead of solving the issue, removing the mid importance may end up just creating a (potential worse) issue. CaptainGalaxy 15:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

If editors can't help themselves with arguing/wasting time on it, I recommend the whole thing be scrapped. Or if there's a lot of interest in continuing it, then let those people handle it, and the time-sinking editors should step away from it. This is one of those things, kind of like with Wikipedia's category system, that people need to keep in mind that comparably very few people will ever even see this.

Here's a good example to illustrate what I mean. While Cloud Strife averages 600+ views per day, conversely, the talk page averages one view per day. And you don't even know that every talk page view is looking at the quality assessment either. Sergecross73 msg me 16:42, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

It's one of the reasons I didn't think it'd be a good idea to be honest: the importance scale is often just "there" and most people are going to work on what they want to. While it might be neat to work on high importance character articles, I feel it's not a *necessity* as most are going to have folks bog down.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree that we don't want editors to argue and waste time on this. But I see how this proposal could backfire. I could see editors getting a lot more defensive if they are forced into all-or-nothing (important-or-not). "Mid" might be helping things towards compromise. The distance between "low" and "high" is bigger than the distance between "low" and "mid". Shooterwalker (talk) 21:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series

If this article is brought to GA, we could create a good topic, since all individual characters with articles are GAs. I would do it, but I don't know much about Final Fantasy VII or about writing this type of article. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

:@QuicoleJR you're not the only one. All RE character are now GA, but despite that I am familiar with the series, I have no idea how to set up a good list of x character articles; thus I have no interest now aiming for GT. lol 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 23:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Rhain: who has worked with a lot of Character articles and lists and brought some to GA or FL. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Character lists

This is something I have never been able to figure out. How do we decide whether an article about the characters of a game/series as a group is an article or a list? My first thought was that pages that used a subsection format instead of a list format were the ones considered articles, but list of Mario franchise characters proves that wrong. I then thought that having info about the creation and reception of the characters in separate sections was the deciding factor, but list of Genshin Impact characters disproves that. It also doesn't come down to the article title, as shown by characters of the Kirby series. Does anyone here know the answer? Thanks, QuicoleJR (talk) 15:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Honestly speaking, most character lists under this task force are basically just dumping grounds with little to no organization or widespread consistency in how they are formatted. And it doesn't feel like there's any solution, since each type of game could warrant a different kind of character list. I'm not sure if there's any major factor that determines when an article is either "List of X characters" or "Characters of X" beyond the personal preference of whoever named the article. λ NegativeMP1 21:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)