Wikipedia talk:Huggle/Feedback/Archive 8

Whitelist improvement suggestion and Undo option

If possible, Huggle (or any other external tool?) should check if any user in Wikipedia:Huggle/Whitelist had changed is username in Special:Log/renameuser recently. I saw one user in Portuguese Wikipedia with a lot of edits had changed is user name. Is new name was added to whitelist automatically by Huggle, but is previous username was not removed from Whitelist automatically. In this case he didn't created again is previous user account so someone could recreate it. This is not a problem if the user (or bureocrat, depending of Wikimedia project changing usernames policies) had created is previous user account. But there is a chance someone create an account with is previous username (intensionally or not). This is not a top priority, since is not very probable and is less important than present bugs, but could be implemented in the future.

Is any option in Huggle to undo a single previous edit like Help:Revert#Undo? Mosca (talk) 07:22, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Viewing user contributions?

I remember that the previous version of Huggle had an option to view a user's contributions (the option was located next to "New pages", "Filtered changes" etc.), but this seems to have disappeared in the latest version. Or have I simply forgotten to enable some feature to make that option re-appear? Please advise. It Is Me Here (talk) 18:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Configuration keeps getting reverted

Whenever I add new edit summaries or warnings to my configuration subpage, it get reverted back as soon as I use Huggle. It doesn't matter if I've added them manually or through the Huggle Options module. Once I use Huggle and exit, the new warnings and edit summaries disappear. I'm using the new version. Is there at least a way that I can prevent Huggle from "updating" my configuration? ... discospinster _talk 19:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Error Message

I get this sometimes (twice so far):

(snipped ArgumentOutOfRangeException in Page.get_Owner)

Huggle keeps on going though. I love 0.8.1 by the way.:D--Xp54321 ^{(Hello! • Contribs)} 03:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I forgot to put parentheses around an expression. This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 21:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

List Builder Browse... button disabled

1. Go to System -> List Builder
2. Add a new list, select "File" for Source type
3. The Browse button stays disabled

Workaround: just enter the absolute path of the file. So not a huge problem, but hopefully easily fixed. --JaGa^talk 23:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Your user account is logged out?

{{resolved}} This morning I've started getting the message "Your user account has been logged out. You may need to restart Huggle in order to edit." This happens as soon as I try to edit, but as recently as last night, I was able to edit fine. The reversions themselves are going through, but the user talk warnings are not. Restarting Huggle does not fix the problem. Any ideas what's up? Newsaholic (talk) 06:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm having the same problem. Possibly this is because my Huggle .css page is out of date and reports that I'm using an older version of Huggle (even though I'm using the new version). I'm looking for a page that will tell me how my Huggle user css page should best be put together, I'll let you know if this fixes things. Banaticus (talk) 06:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm having this problem as well. I don't think its a problem with Huggle.css, I think mine is quite OK and it worked well earlier. And BTW, the updating of that page is supposed to happen automatically, Banaticus. Anyone have any idea what's going on? Chamal ^talk 06:56, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Something in the API has been disabled, and automatic edits don't work at the moment (TW is affected too). Only the basic rollback works. --Closedmouth (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Good to know. I tried updating it manually -- I changed the version number to 0.8.2 and removed the queue-max-age:0 line as that command wasn't listed in the current manual. I still received the same error when I tried to revert/warn on an edit. So, this means that it's the basic WikiMedia software that's having a problem? Banaticus (talk) 07:01, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Yep, there was a bug that was screwing up performance, so the devs disabled the whole thing so they could fix it in isolation. Yay :-| --Closedmouth (talk) 07:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh damn! So the vandals are going to have a party right here. Hope it gets fixed soon. Just imagine a Wikipedia without both huggle and twinkle! Chamal ^talk 07:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it's time to go WP:OLDSCHOOL. Oh, yeah... Newsaholic (talk) 07:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandal party. I can actually get one edit and warn through for some reason, it's just that it stops at the second. — neuro^(talk) 08:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Someone on #wikimedia-tech said things got disabled, but have now been renabled. Should be fine —Reedy 12:33, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Huggle is working, and neither is Twinkle. See also discussion on WP:VPT. – Sadalmelik ☎ 12:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)#

Note I also currently have that problem huggle keeps on popping the "you are logged out message" even when I am able to edit. Alexnia (T) @ 12:51, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for testing it again - Huggle still appears not to give warnings to vandals. – Sadalmelik ☎ 13:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I got the same problem too. Given that I just got a Windows update, I tried restarting my computer. That didn't work. Then I came here, and I saw that it wasn't just me. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 14:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was some weird conflict between my Portable Firefox and Huggle kicking each other's sessions off, so I logged out of WP in Firefox and tried again, with no success. Glad it's not just me, but it's rather annoying that warnings don't work. Whatever was disabled is still disabled; I'm still having trouble. Tuvok[^T@lk/_Improve] 15:02, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, some recent changes in Mediawiki API seems to have have broken Huggle, and we need to wait for Gurch... Apparently wpSection is needed for in edit tokens; I suppose reverting works because rollbacks use a different mechanism. Twinkle seems to be more or less up and running, though. For the changes required, see Tim Starling's modification of Twinkle. Frankenpuppy (talk) 15:22, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Weird, I was just coming here to report it... –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 15:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Weird... the bots are not doing their job. Only ClueBot seems to be working. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 15:41, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

It looks like WikiArmageddon, the bots are killing off the users, shutting them out of the system, and preparing to automate the Wiki. The resistance must rise, for I want my Huggle back! Scapler (talk) 15:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Phew. I thought my account was banned from HG or something! ^Law _shoot! 16:41, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh joy, the API is broken again. I'll see if there is anything I can do on my end, but I imagine you will just have to wait until it is fixed on the other end -- Gurch (talk) 19:10, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: Huggle gave me a problem, so I hard-refreshed all the browsers that I have on my computer, and tried logging in again. No problems. TW seems to be back up too. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 20:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed fixed, marking as resolved. — neuro^(talk) 22:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Feature request: diff showing net edits by most recent contributor

I don't think this has been asked for before, I dug through the archives and didn't see it. Anyways, popups has* a function that lets you see the net change from all of the edits the latest contributor has made to an article since the previous contributor. In other words, the diff shows what you'll be changing back if you hit the rollback button. I have found this not only makes it easier to spot an unworthy series of edits, it also helps prevent unwarranted reversions too. *Or had a function, it hasn't worked for me for the past few months now. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 05:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Going to the user's first edit and then pressing "D" (assuming the user is also responsible for the last edit) should work. StaticGull  Talk  15:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It's also possible to use this function by dragging the mouse to and from any edit. StaticGull  Talk  13:43, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

That only works if Huggle loaded all the edits, which on my machine anyways it doesn't seem to do very often. I usually have to page back through the page revisions until I hit a trusted user before I can do a comparison to the latest revision. It would be really nice if Huggle would do that either by default or with a single button click. It would also prevent confusion between similar looking IP addresses. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 01:44, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The edit loading problem can be solved by pressing "H", or by messing around in the configuration. StaticGull  Talk  11:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll give that a shot, though I still sorely miss the way popups use to do it. Thanks for the help! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 03:51, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome :-). StaticGull  Talk  11:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Errors in diffs

Huggle sometimes adds a + in diffs, see User_talk:Ogioh#Ummm, User talk:76.89.138.132, User talk:64.231.13.63. Cenarium ^Talk 00:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean in the diff viewer of huggle or the Wikipedia diff viewer? The Wikipedia diff-viewer has the +s to show an addition of text. Not sure if huggle's should though... Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 03:42, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I think he means that the URL for the diff of the reverted revision has a '+' in it. '+' in a percent-encoded string is interpreted as a space, and the URLs should all work correctly -- Gurch (talk) 10:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

In Firefox; the url works in the sense that I can see the diff, but the article whose the diff seems to be taken is a red link, Fighting+Foodons instead of Fighting Foodons: it shows [1]. The + functions as a space in the url, but not in the Wikipedia title: it's still a +. Note that this is new, it worked fine before. The error affects all diffs when the article name has a space in it. Cenarium ^Talk 13:47, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, so it does. I don't remember it doing that when I tested it -- Gurch (talk) 15:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Tagging bug

Hi. Huggle is working otherwise fine for me, except for CSD tagging. The editor of the page gets a CSD notice, but Huggle doesn't actually add the tag to the page. Prince of Canada ^{t | c} 11:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Log out bug

hehe sorry to have to pop up with another bug report but since the last 2 times a log out from huggle I get this warning which skips the updating watch list.

here's the report

  NullReferenceException: Der Objektverweis wurde nicht auf eine Objektinstanz festgelegt.
  bei System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripControlHost.set_Text(String value)
  bei huggle.Requests.BrowserRequest.Done(Object ResultObject)

oh yeah almost forgot to mention the report is in German ;)Alexnia (T) @ 19:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Issue with Huggle

This occurred for me a couple of weeks ago, so I don't know whether or not (due to huggle being broken?) I should still post it or not. (My computer went offline right before I could post this) I will in case I can still get help)

I really really want to give Huggle a try, but I seem to running into multiple obstacles when I try to get it going. The first issue I came across was in the installation of the .NET Framework. i knew I already had some version of .NET installed, but I figured it was probably an older version. Either way, it turns out I have .NET Framework 2.0 Service pack 1. When I try to install the .NET Framework 2.0, link provided on Huggle's page, upon installation i receive the following error: Setup cannot continue because this version of the .NET Framework is incompatible with a previously installed one. For more information, see http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q312/5/00.asp

I went to this URL, and found this explanation: The .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 is a later version of the .NET Framework 2.0. The earlier version cannot be installed over the later version.

So, considering this, I figured it would be fine to proceed with Huggle. I downloaded and installed and ran the newest version, and I think it just wouldn't even run. I removed it, downloaded the legacy version. I installed it, and when I run the exe, I get to the login window, hit Login, and it crashes within a few seconds, at exactly the same place in the loading bar every time.

Is this likely due to the newer version of .NET, or is it likely because of some other unknown circumstance on my pc? I suppose the more basic question is: Does Huggle work with .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1?

Thanks, looking forward to hearing back from you guys! Pip (talk) 09:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, service packs contain fixes for previous releases and do not (usually) cause incompatibility; in general, such fixes can be considered to be the same version of the product. The requirement is listed there for the benefit of users who have no version of .NET (Windows 2000 users), or only version 1.x installed (Windows XP users who have not used another .NET 2.0 application before). You can assume it says ".NET version 2.0 or later"; the reason I didn't specify that is that .NET applications are built to run on a specific version and will do so even if there is a newer version present (the latest version is 3.5) -- Gurch (talk) 11:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Great, thanks so much. I suppose it's some other weird issue manifested by my computer then. Dangit. Thanks for the reply! Pip (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

It's probably just the same problem as everyone else is having; see the orange bar at the top of the page -- Gurch (talk) 22:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Would that explain the incident where I nominated a page at AfD using Huggle, and another page ended up being nominated, with a bizarrely inapplicable rationale? -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

But this occurred for me way before the orange bar at the top of the page appeared - Huggle won't even run... This happened on the 22 of Sept. Pip (Talk to me!) 23:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Any suggested fixes?? ~Pip 20:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Please try the latest version. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 15:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I can't tell you how excited I am! This seems to be working perfectly. Now to go read the manual/ learn how to use Huggle! Whee! Thanks guys! ~Pip 20:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Edit summary

I know its kind of petty, but could the (HG) spam not be removed from the edit summaries, as it doesn't really serve any purpose. Sunderland06 (talk) 19:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

It's up to people to discuss that here. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 19:15, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay. TW and VP appear in the edit summaries, right? Or did VP drop it? Regardless, I think it should stay. It should be apparent in edit histories that an automated tool is being used, and which one. لennavecia 13:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Jennavecia. Isn't it good to 'advertise' so that more people join? What matters is that the reverting of vandalism will continue. Chamal ^talk _work 14:38, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

There was a lengthy discussion regarding this here. The result of the discussion was to keep it. Dadude3320 17:01, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I recall that I opposed the edit summary. It does, in fact, serve a purpose. It lets other users know which edits are automated and which are not. Particularly useful for RFA. Glacier Wolf 22:39, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd say leave it in, it serves a purpose - to show which edits are automated. — neuro^(talk) 18:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, this isn't so much advertising as it is notification that an automated tool is being used and shouldn't be removed. Shell ^babelfish 05:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess that from this we can say that the advert in the summary will stay on EN wiki. Thanks for all of your input. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 15:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

0.8.2

OK, here it says "huggle version 0.8.2 now released". But on the download page it says "MediaWiki changes/bugs have broken the latest version of Huggle. USE AN OLDER VERSION. THANKS.". Does this mean that even though 0.8.2 is released, we can't use it yet? Is it best to stick to 0.7.12 for now? Chamal ^talk _work 10:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

0.8.2 has been released. Feel free to use it :). I just forgot to update the download page :P ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 10:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Yay, 0.8.2. :-). StaticGull  Talk  13:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

It's working nicely! Time for vandals to pack up! Chamal ^talk _work 14:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's great! LittleMountain5 ^review! 15:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I actually have the new problem of having the download page blocked by the anti-whatever filter on my computer :/ - I'll have to fix that. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 18:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

So far so good! Well done :) — Possum (talk) 23:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Works pretty good. Little slow though. Seems to lock up every now and then, only to free itself back up again. Although I always have this problem with resource intensive programs, such as IE 7, huggle 0.7.12 never had this problem. I could even run Windows Media Player 11 in the backround with 0.7.12. Under normal circumstances, WMP 11 would drastically slow down firefox if it was playing music. But with any version past that, I can't do it. It locks up everything. WMP 11 and Huggle 0.8.1/.2 do not mix. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 15:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Bear in mind that .NET, and therefore Huggle, uses Internet Explorer's rendering engine to display diffs and other web pages, so if IE7 performs badly on certain pages, Huggle will have the same problem -- Gurch (talk) 18:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Still having problems

Dammit!!! I'm still having problems logging in with Huggle. I am still getting that frikking error message ("Huggle has encountered a problem and needs to shut down). Idk if it has something to do with my computer, or if it is a glitch in the program. Btw, pardon my language, but I am so F***ing pissed!!! (sry again) Montgomery' 39 (talk) 21:06, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Suggested workaround pending resolution: take a break from the internet, go outside, etc. until level of rage provoked by bugs in a small, specialized, noncommercial, intermittently-maintained piece of software fall to acceptable levels -- Gurch (talk) 22:09, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Butm, it would be helful if I could get some more insight into the problem. Montgomery' 39 (talk) 15:01, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Nvm abt that. I just downloaded 8.2, and I'm not having problems *goes into excitement mode*. Montgomery' 39 (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Queue selections

I'm trying to have the Filtered Changes in the queue to only display the Article, User, User talk, Wikipedia and User namespaces. I went to the Options and I don't see a Queue tab, which I last saw in version 0.7.12. Do I have to manually edit my Huggle configuration page, or do I have to open up ver. 0.7.12 and fix the queue changes there? SchfiftyThree 23:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Nope, it's under "Queue" --> "Manage Queues". Then click on the "page title filters" tab and you'll get the list of namespaces. Cheers. Chamal ^Talk ± 02:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

And is there a save button there? I don't see one, and "close" does nothing but close the window. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 00:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have this problem. When you close it, the changes are there until you exit huggle. When you log in again, it's back to the old settings. But I think this has been reported already by someone else. Chamal ^Talk ± 00:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Not incrementing vandalism reports

When reporting a user to AIV, it keeps adding the last one on as number 7 instead of incrementing to 8, 9, 10, and so on: example RainbowOfLight ^Talk 05:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Added to the google code bug tracker http://code.google.com/p/huggle/issues/detail?id=98&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Summary ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 09:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion reasons

Hi there! If I'd delete articles per Huggle on de:wp without adding a reason, the log would show the article's content (content was: … only contributer etc.). If there are some personal data, just a developer could remove it from the logs. Could you change the code please so that, if the Huggle deletion reason is empty, the (on Wikipedia) logged deletion reason will be empty, too? Thanks, —DerHexer (Talk) 10:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I have added this issue to the google code bug tracker here. I hope this will be fixed soonish and thanks for the report. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 15:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Localization in 0.8.2

Thanks for releasing this version. Unfortunately Huggle is not using translation page, at least in Portuguese Wikipedia:Huggle/Localization/pt. English interface it's OK, but in portuguese I see [login-start], [main-system], [main-tip-revert], [main-user-talk] and things like these all over the place. Mosca (talk) 13:55, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. I have added this is the google code bug tracker. You can now keep track of the bug here. This is not just a bug for the PT wiki but all languages except for English. Thanks for the report. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 15:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

that's because the localization code isn't finished yet... -- Gurch (talk) 23:01, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:19, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Blocking.

Was the blocking function removed from huggle? I'm now reporting users with 4+ warnings to AIV, which equates to wasting another admin's time when I could have easily taken care of it... · AndonicO ^Engage. 03:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It was disabled project-side because of the API/MediaWiki bug that made all blocks automatically have the "no-edit-talkpage" or whatever on, which is not the intention. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 04:06, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see... that wasn't an issue back when I was more active, I guess. · AndonicO ^Engage. 19:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:19, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Using it as an admin

Is there a special way to set it up for admins? I've tried adding admin:true to User:Trevor MacInnis/huggle.css, but it still wants to post the block requests to the WP:AIV page, and when I close the program it removes admin:true from my page, see this edit. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 18:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It's supposed to automatically detect if you are an admin :/ - but there is a known bug about configuration changes not working and all that – check back later for any progress. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 18:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I just checked tried using it again and now it seems to be working. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 18:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Blocking is disabled because it doesn't work properly. You should still be able to delete and protect pages -- Gurch (talk) 20:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:18, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Advanced reverting

Revert this revision > Advanced... doesn't work. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 03:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

You mean the custom edit summary or the "revert only the selected revision" or the whole thing? Monster Under Your Bed ^(talk) 06:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Custom edit summary. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 14:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

It hasn't been in previous versions, either, just to let you know. — neuro^(talk) 23:37, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Using a custom edit summary ('Y' shortcut) works for me if I tab to or click the OK button. Hitting Return from the summary field causes nothing to happen. Tuvok[^T@lk/_Improve] 01:30, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Then I suppose that's the problem :/ Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 03:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 23:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Bug when setting queue to go to the right of the page (0.8.2)

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex cannot be larger than length of string.

Parameter name: startIndex
at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
at Huggle.Main.SetMenuText()
at Huggle.Main.Configure()
at Huggle.Requests.WriteConfigRequest.Done()

at Huggle.Misc.CallbackInvoke(Object TargetObject)

Any ideas on this one? — neuro^(talk) 18:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Added to the google code bug tracker >here< ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 20:06, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version-- Gurch (talk) 16:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

AIV Reports

In this extended report by TheSuave, the number of the link to the vandalism edit was another 3, which instead should be 4. Is there any idea how it happened, or how it can be changed? SchfiftyThree ^(talk!) 23:38, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

This is a know bug and will hopefully be fixed in the future. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 08:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:18, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Can't login

Hi. Sorry about my poor english. I'm a registered portuguese wikipedia user since 14 december 2006, and yesterday I decided to test Huggle, doing all the required tasks before logging in ([2] and [3]), but when I try to log me in, the message Use of Huggle on this project requires an account at least 180 days old appears. Another user (actually a sysop, Beria (talk · contribs), registered there since 5 october 2007) is having the same problem. Thanks, Spoladore (talk) 15:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be a problem with the code checking the account creation date. (180 days to use it seems very high, though, as does 2000 edits... you may want to ask es:User:Mosca, who set those requirements, about that) -- Gurch (talk) 16:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Never happened before on portuguese wikipedia. I changed "require-time:180" to "require-time:0" and it seems is working now. Mosca (talk) 09:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 10:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Queue problems

In the Manage Queues menu, for the "All edits" Queue, whenever I select the second check box in the first tab (The one that says remove old edits the the same page), and click ok, then go back to to the same menu, the box is unchecked. It does this every single time. Is this a glitch? VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 06:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Configuration updating error.

Whenever I go to: File -> Options, Change the config, and then press ok, it gives me this:

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex cannot be larger than length of string. Parameter name: startIndex

  at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
  at Huggle.Main.SetMenuText()
  at Huggle.Main.Configure()
  at Huggle.Requests.WriteConfigRequest.Done()
  at Huggle.Misc.CallbackInvoke(Object TargetObject)

Anyone got any idea why it does this? VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 20:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

because I fail at coding -- Gurch (talk) 20:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Well stop failing at coding. Succeed at coding. Take your time. Don't try to rush. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 04:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

take my time? the public version of this has been in development for nearly a year now and it's still nowhere near finished -- Gurch (talk) 04:25, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The geeks at Microsoft took 6 years to develop Windows Vista. And even it has it's faults. Now, only 4 or 5 people are developing Huggle, a sophisticated program for reverting vandalism on Wikipedia. I'm surprised that after nearly a year that it's gotten this far. So, you guys are doing a VERY good job at it, but it'll only be great if you don't rush and don't make, eh, too many mistakes. If it were up to me, I'd make it take 5 years. But it's up to you to make it work good. So, don't rush, please. You will only do yourself a favor. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 04:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

4 or 5? If only. 99.9% of the code is mine, a couple of one-line changes from others is about it -- Gurch (talk) 05:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

No one said there were 4 or 5 coders... Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 05:57, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Uh, wow, my bad. 1 primary coder then, with a couple more that add things now and then. Now I'm REALLY amazed at the progress you've done on this. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 03:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

this is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 07:33, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect references to warning templates

Quite a few warning templates such as Template:Huggle/warn-1 have an embedded HTML comment such as <!-- Template:uw-huggle1 -->. I noticed these comments, but it took me a while to find out where these templates are really stored, since {{uw-huggle1}} is redirects to a warning template outside the scope of huggle. I clicked a few template links on Template:Huggle and they all had this problem. Maybe there is a good reason for it, but I would suggest that these HTML comments are corrected. Han-Kwang (t) 12:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there is a good reason. Various bots and scripts do not recognize a warning template as such unless it has a comment that starts with "Template:uw". If it was removed from the templates, they would not be recognized by these bots and scripts. This would result in situations whereby a Huggle user would leave, say, a level 3 warning, and then ClueBot would revert the same vandal and leave a level 1 warning, which is undesirable -- Gurch (talk) 21:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

That's all nice, but not a reason to make {{uw-huggle1}} redirect to a non-huggle warning template. Han-Kwang (t) 20:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If the templates were stored on pages with a "uw-" prefix, people might actually try to use them, which would be a bad thing, since they do not work like the other templates -- Gurch (talk) 20:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Then how about making {tl|uw-huggle1}} a noinclude'd explanation of your points above with a link to the huggle project? Han-Kwang (t) 08:18, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I tried that, and then DerHexer wrote a script which tried to warn people using whichever warning series was previously used, so that script tried to use these templates when warning on top of another Huggle warning, so I had to redirect them to the real warning templates to stop the script screwing up -- Gurch (talk) 11:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Possible bug?

Sorry if this is the wrong place to drop a bug report, but it seems that Huggle is doing something odd when providing diffs when warning users. For example, here, if you click, the article and talk links at the top are all redlinks- this is because the diff includes a plus instead of a whitespace character. It seems that I'm not the only one doing that. A user recently wrote on my talk page reporting this and said it was confusing. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 21:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 22:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks for the speedy reply! —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 02:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Problem with reporting

Huggle did not report 24.205.225.15 automatically when the IP had vandalised after a final warning. This happened to both me and User:Wysprgr2005. Trying to report manually (B) didn't work either. Any idea why this was? Chamal ^talk 03:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm having the same problem. At final warning it's not auto reporting any more. When I look at the options in huggle it's set to auto but then when I go to save those options it gives me an error that it can't save the user configuration... Sionus [talk] 16:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Deleting the local config files for Huggle seemed to work. At least so far... Sionus [talk] 16:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

New message bug

I got a message in Huggle telling me I had new messages, when it was actually MiszaBot III archiving some threads. That edit was not picked up in Wikipedia proper (i.e. in IE7) but was registered as a new message by the Huggle programme. It Is Me Here (talk) 14:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Huggle currently treats any edit as a new message, as MediaWiki used to but no longer does -- Gurch (talk) 07:17, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Bot edits are not treated as new messages in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 09:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

It would be cool

If someone made a Linux alternative for Huggle. - Unpopular Opinion (talk) 15:58, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

There's one called VandalProof. Problem being that it's currently broken. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 17:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

ok, thanks for the reply. - Unpopular Opinion (talk) 05:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Also I think gurch just managed to make an edit using huggle in mono. Who knows, there might be a release in the future that will run under mono!! ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 11:36, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Doubt it -- Gurch (talk) 07:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Another feature

Would it be possible to use {{Subst:Blank|article}} specifically for page blanking? -- IRP ☎ 17:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

You can, though you have to do it manually. For most cases, though, the normal warning or at most the removal of content warning should be fine. Note that in the 'standard' series of warning templates, {{uw-blank}} redirects to {{uw-delete}} anyway -- Gurch (talk) 20:01, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it possible to add the feature to the software? The warning looks like:

Please do not replace Wikipedia pages with blank content. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers.
If it is a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If the page has been vandalised, please 
revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please [[Wikipedia:How to 
edit a page|edit]] the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for 
how to proceed.

-- IRP ☎ 20:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

This is implemented in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 05:51, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Help

I have just got the rollback feature on my account and have downloaded huggle but when I open it, it says to check my user configuration page as huggle is not enabled. Can anyone help. Andy (talk) 18:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. You need to create a user config here (User:AtheWeatherman/huggle.css). It just needs to contain "enable:true" and then huggle should run. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 19:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Bug?

I got this error report twice after clicking the next edit button on the main toolbar. Is it a bug? Below is the error report:

EventType : clr20r3 P1 : huggle 8.2.exe P2 : 0.8.2.0 P3 : 48f9b1e9 P4 : huggle P5 : 0.8.2.0 P6:48f9ble9 P7 : cea P8 : 145 Thanks. leujohn ^{(talk, contribs)} 13:25, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Error in huggle

I keep getting this message:

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: StartIndex cannot be less than zero. Parameter name: startIndex at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy) at Huggle.Page.get_Owner() at Huggle.Queue.MatchesFilter(Edit Edit) at Huggle.Processing.ProcessNewEdit(Edit Edit) at Huggle.Irc.ProcessIrcEdit(Object EditObject)

Then I press continue and huggle goes back to normal. It's a bit annoying, so could someone tell me what's going on?--res2216firestar 23:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I've been seeing this error as well, running 8.1. --JaGa^talk 23:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

• Ditto on 8.2 as well. It happens to me when i try and add custom edit summaries. It doesn't work and instead i have to rely on going advanced and the summaries are there saved across sessions. If i try and add it, it states it worked im my config. but when i open huggle again, its back to the default. Monster Under Your Bed ^(talk) 06:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Active edits of vandals

Maybe I just didn't find it yet but is tehre a possibility to look for all active (=not reverted) edits an identified vandal has done in the past? You can of course look through recent edits but this includes reverted edits also. --Say Headcheese!--hexaChord² 17:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This is done automatically when a user is reported or blocked, and any edits found are added to the queue. To manually check all of a user's contributions, click the "contribs" button next to the display of their contribution history; those edits which are the last revision to the page are shown with a blue border around them. This is not done every time a revision is reverted as it would slow things down, and the vast majority of vandal edits are either the first by that user or, in the case of a shared IP address, the first by the person on the other end, where any older edits are usually months old and either constructive or long since reverted -- Gurch (talk) 19:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The next version will retrieve the user's contribution history every time a revert is done, but for reasons of efficiency will look at only the user's last 10 edits -- Gurch (talk) 05:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Messages

I found that he first time I opened Huggle when I turned my computer on, the messages when it first opens is not there. If I close Huggle and open it again, it works. Can someone tell me how to fix this? Thanks. leujohn ^{(talk, contribs)} 09:56, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been getting the exact same thing on any version past 0.7.12. It's just a blank white space. Sometimes it works, but most of the time, it doesn't. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 15:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 23:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Policy change not yet reflected in Huggle

The newly implemented A9 speedy deletion criterion should be added to the next version of Huggle. It is about articles on non-notable albums released by bands that have no Wikipedia article, or whose article has been deleted, either via AfD or A7 speedy. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 19:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. We have tried to add the new CSD into huggle via the config (well rather gurch has) but for some reason it does not seem to be working. We will try to fix this up for the next release. Thanks for informing us of this change. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 15:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Problem is I want to make it display as a subcriterion of A7 (because that's essentially what it is) but use A9, not A7, as the key. Seems when I came up with the config format I didn't anticipate wanting to do that so it doesn't work -- Gurch (talk) 19:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

This is now added. It isn't a subcriterion of the other ones though -- Gurch (talk) 05:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This bug's back :(

Was just reverting vandalism on Huggle and saw an anonymous IP revert vandalism - [4]. (Not me by the way, although it did happen to me in the past).

Seems like this bug is back :(.

TheSuave 14:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Interesting that the reverter is in the same /16 block as the vandal... -- Gurch (talk) 14:27, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I noticed that too. An anonymous case of sockpuppetry perhaps? TheSuave 17:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Pretty sure this is fixed now -- Gurch (talk) 23:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Feature Request - 2 queues

Could it be possible to be able to view 2 queues at one time? One in focus so that the "Next edit" button only goes to edits in that one, and another one in the backround, such as a new page queue? It might sound absurd, but it might be a nice feature to some people. VandalismDestroyer | Talk to me 20:42, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Might be able to have 2 queues rather than one (one left and one right). Then options to hide and show each queue individually and then the selection (what appears in queue) for each also. Then remove the option for which side the one queue at the moment is located on. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 20:45, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Depends on what you mean by "in the background". All of the 'live' queues are updated all of the time, but to actually view one or select a revision from it you have to switch to it -- Gurch (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

In the next version I have added an option to view two queues at once -- Gurch (talk) 03:46, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Portability

Any chance HG can work portably? (I'm assuming not since the framework is most probably attached to the OS.) Also it says that an IRC connection is optional, does that mean that HG can receive the feed from elsewhere as well? -- Mentisock 18:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes huggle can also take the "feed" from Special:Recentchanges. But in this case it isnt really a feed it just reloads the page every few seconds. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 19:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I've opened an issue in huggle's issue tracker on Google Code about config file locations that, if resolved, will reduce issues with running huggle from e.g. a flash drive. Unfortunately it won't solve problems with .NET being unavailable, but it will increase consistency of options like the startup "Messages" dialog between computers.

As an aside, I've gotten HG to run from a custom shortcut in U3; all you need is a shortcut creator (easily Googled). Tuvok[^T@lk/_Improve] 20:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The CLI is not attached to any OS in principle, but in practise the only complete implementation of it is Microsoft's .NET framework. A cross-platform implementation exists (Mono) but it is only a partial implementation and so far I have been unable to make Huggle run on it on any OS other than Windows -- Gurch (talk) 01:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It will work portably in the sense that it does not need to be installed. Currently configuration settings are saved to the user application data folder, so that is not preserved if the application is moved between computers. This is not the case in the next version, though this does mean it will not work without write access to the folder it is in -- Gurch (talk) 03:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion notifications

I haven't gotten all the way through this yet, but I have included the information about the {{hangon}} template in the messages. Does it need some more formatting? Explain your thoughts. SchfiftyThree^(Public) 15:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Copying text from another template and expecting it to magically have the same parameters doesn't work. If you want a separate parameter for the discussion page name, that will have to be implemented in Huggle first -- Gurch (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

.NET?

Why the hell is Huggle using .NET? I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be accessible by all. Relying on non-free software prevents that.

Because Wikipedia does not make, sponsor, help out, support, or even officially endorse huggle. The source itself, by the way, is free (both copyright-free and free of charge). The .NET Framework is also "free" in the monetary sense, although I don't think it is in the software sense. Oh, and Huggle uses .NET because Gurch programs in that language (and quite solely because of that reason). Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 04:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Huggle's source code is in the public domain; the CLI (of which the .NET Framework is an implementation) is an open standard; the .NET Framework itself is available under one of Microsoft's "Shared Source" licenses, which make the source code available but aren't considered "open source" under the definitions used by the OSI and others, as they impose additional restrictions, such as prohibiting derivative works and commercial use, making them more like Creative Commons' more restrictive licenses -- Gurch (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

It is the policy of the Wikimedia Foundation to use open-source software at all levels of their organization. Huggle is not a project of the Wikimedia Foundation. Let me know when they start allocating a portion of their funding to Huggle development, and your argument may make some sense. Even then, though, Huggle is hardly essential for the access of Wikipedia, in the same way that the MediaWiki/PHP/MySQL/Apache/Linux stack is -- Gurch (talk) 17:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Turn off new message notification

Any way to turn off the yellow notification bar that shows up whenever someone edits my talk page? I think its a bit distracting. I'd prefer checking for new messages manually through my browser. Unpopular Opinion (talk · contribs) 16:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

This is implemented in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 17:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Filter on diff text?

Recently, I've found the Manage Queues facility very useful, especially the ability to match usernames/IPs by regular expression. Would it be possible to implement a regex filter on the content of the current diff? By leaving Huggle running in the background, this would be useful to find persistent spammers who are using dynamic IPs to insert the same or similar text on various pages, like this and this, which could be spotted with a regex. I have a vague idea that this has already been requested and you've said it isn't possible, but I've looked back to September and can't see it.  —SMALLJIM  00:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not impossible as such. The problem is that, at least on the English Wikipedia, loading every diff for every revision isn't really feasible, even with whitelisted users filtered out. Because of this, Huggle only loads a few diffs in advance, so the filter would only be run on those. Options to force loading of all diffs and/or change the preloading limit for individual queues might be possible, but has other problems, not least of which is its unfriendliness to the server end of things, which Huggle places a very high demand on as it is, especially if one were planning to run such an arrangement in the background -- Gurch (talk) 01:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I was forgetting that the IRC feed doesn't include diffs and they have to be fetched separately. What I didn't make clear was that I wouldn't want to look at all diffs, only those coming from the known IP range, i.e. it would be used in conjunction with the username filter. The recent ranges I've been working on have been throwing up a handful of edits a minute at most. Maybe it could be implemented but limited to a /10 CIDR block or something? It would be good if it could go "ping" or pop up a messagebox when it matched too! Just some thoughts, really - I suppose I'm trying to use the tool for something it wasn't designed for.  —SMALLJIM  14:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Implemented in the next version:

* Option for each queue to load diffs for all revisions in that queue when it is active.

* Revision content filter for each queue. Diffs will be loaded for all revisions that match a queue's other filters, then diff content will be checked and the revisions shown in the queue only if the revision content filter also matches.

* Option for each queue to show a notification in system tray each time a revision is added to that queue, if "show tray icon" option in System -> Options is enabled.

Gurch (talk) 06:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks for adding this. It sounds excellent and I look forward to trying it out. Your first bullet point worries me a bit though, because it sounds like it would have the potential to cause the excessive server load that you were concerned about. What am I missing?  —SMALLJIM  21:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Nothing. Just don't enable it for the "All edits" queue. Or at least, don't expect me to accept any responsibility for the consequences if you do -- Gurch (talk) 22:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Block?

I haven't used Huggle in ages and have just installed the new version. The old command of Report a User (B) does not switch to Block a User when I operate the command in Huggle. Has the command changed?¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 00:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Temporarily disabled as it's defaulting to "do not allow user to edit their own talk page" and hence preventing incorrectly blocked accounts from posting {{unblock}} requests. – iridescent 00:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah I see...Better start hitting R instead of Q on the 5th revert :/.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 00:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Standard practice seems to be let it report to AIV rather than keep flipping programs to block; then, every so often hop over to AIV and clear out a batch of someone else's reports (to cancel out the additional strain you've put on the long-suffering AIV-monitors). Seems to work. – iridescent 00:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

This is fixed in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 03:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Rollback?

When I try to log on, it gives me a message saying "Use of Huggle on this project requires Rollback.". Is there a specific thing I need to do to enable rollback? Lazylaces (Talk to me 19:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

You don't seem to have the rollback user right, which is required to run huggle in order to prevent abuse. You can request it here. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 19:26, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I now have Rollback rights and <3 Huggle ;-) Lazylaces (Talk to me 15:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Button not available (0.8.3 - pt.wiki)

Button "Revert this revision and issue a user warning" (shortcut "Q") is not active. I can use "Revert this revision" and "Send template message to user" buttons but not the first one. Mosca (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Configuration change that I forgot to copy over to pt.wikipedia. Should be fixed now if you restart Huggle -- Gurch (talk) 16:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Visual indication for the namespace

In some cases the proper response to an edit varies with the namespace—what should be reverted immediately in the article can be acceptable for the article's talk page. Earlier Clark89 mentioned that specific template should be used for reverts in a sandbox. How about some visual indication for the current context (main space, article talk, user, sandbox, …)? Say, colorful icons or different background color for the page title? It will help to prevent mistakes, especially in a hurry—when vandalism is high. Skarebo (talk) 12:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

If you're making mistakes because of hurrying, then slow down; there is plenty of vandalism to go round. But yes, I will do that -- Gurch (talk) 16:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Not with me :) but I've seen it happen. Skarebo (talk) 22:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What Gurch said. People making honest mistakes is one thing; if anyone's really making mistakes because they're "in a hurry", there's a nice shiny "enable-false" headed their way. (Every time I see a post removed from my talkpage with a "reverted edits by xxxx (HG)" summary I cringe, and I'm certainly not alone in that.) – iridescent 23:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

implemented in the next version -- Gurch (talk) 09:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

0.8.3

The newest version seems to be rather laggy for me. It takes up to 10 seconds for some change pages to load. Going back to 0.8.2 most of them load instantly. I'm not sure if this is an issue on my side or Huggle itself. Sionus [talk] 16:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

must be Huggle I am having the same issues . Alexnia (talk) 18:21, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Same here. Using 0.8.2 again. --♠Dspradau♠ ^{♠talk♠ ♠contribs♠} 22:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

+1 ditto --Unpopular Opinion (talk · contribs) 05:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Hate to pile-on, but I will anyway :P ^Law _shoot! 07:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 Works for me, new version's about a hundred times faster than the previous one. --Closedmouth (talk) 09:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

...

... -- Gurch (talk) 09:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay maybe not a hundred, but it's faster. --Closedmouth (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)