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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 April 3

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April 3 edit

Template:Info/Ator edit

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The result of the discussion was delete, test page. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:08, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Info/Ator (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

no useful content, looks like a Portuguese infobox in a template The Banner talk 23:17, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Million Dollar Highway edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:57, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Million Dollar Highway (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unneeded. Contains information that has little/no relation to the highway itself. Molandfreak (talk, contribs, email) 19:14, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Serves no useful purpose. Dough4872 21:36, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Pike County, PA Roads edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 20:06, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Pike County, PA Roads (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Per past precedents at WP:USRD/P#Other debates, and the fact that this template is redundant to Category:Transportation in Pike County, Pennsylvania. Imzadi 1979 → 17:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Saline County, Kansas highways edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 20:03, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Saline County, Kansas highways (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Per past precedent against county-specific highway navboxes at WP:USRD/P#Other debates, and the fact that this box is redundant to Category:Transportation in Saline County, Kansas. Imzadi 1979 → 17:23, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:United States Squad 2002 FIBA World Championship edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:56, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:United States Squad 2002 FIBA World Championship (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Delete Avoid template creep for a non-medal finish in this international basketball event. FIBA World Championship, now known as FIBA World Cup, is not as popular as its football/soccer counterpart, or even the Olympics. For the accomplished pro NBA players that make up the US national team, a 6th-place finish is not worth cluttering with another navbox. Perhaps a 12th-place finish for Lebanon might be notable enough for Template:Lebanon Squad 2002 FIBA World Championship, but non-medal finish in this case for the U.S. does not warrant template clutter. —Bagumba (talk) 07:16, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - The practice of creating team roster navboxes for sports teams that win major national or international championships is well established. Sixth place? No, sir; no way. Bottom-of-the-page cruft. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • You're mistaken, @Dirtlawyer1:. There are always navboxes for national teams that made it to the FIFA, IRB, ICC and FIBA World Cups and World Baseball Classic, even if they didn't win any medals. –HTD 23:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Howard, that's exactly the point: such navboxes may exist, but they should not. They are bottom-of-the-page cruft. They are the worst kind of "banner-hanging": they're insignificant banners. No championship, no navbox is good rule for sports teams. If I am mistaken, it's only because the precedent has been unevenly enforced. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:19, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – So for example, would Template:Australia Squad 2006 FIBA World Championship be in the same boat? If so, there are many templates like these, like nearly every country to have ever competed in a World Championship tournament. Pretty much every team that competed in the 2010 FIBA World Championship has one, including Tunisia who came last – have fun deleting all of the "not medal" finished ones and removing all the dead templates from player articles! DaHuzyBru (talk) 17:17, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, I guess if it's just the non medal US ones that are deleted it wouldn't be taxing (not saying I agree to delete though). But for any other nation, I think it is too unreasonable to apply that logic as there are so many. DaHuzyBru (talk) 17:23, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is the only US team that didn't medal in either the World Cup or Olympics (at home floor, no less!) ever since the Dream Team was formed in 1992. I dunno how bad navbox creep is elsewhere, but it seems for half of the members of this first (and only) US team to compete in the US in a World Cup, there is an average of five navboxes per article. Other similar navboxes include "Three point contest winners", NCAA consensus all-Americans and things such as college conference MVPs. Now I dunno if any of this is as big as a national team call-up in the U.S., as compared to achievements while they were in college. For example, this seems to be the only national team duty in a World Cup or Olympics for the likes of Jay Williams, Paul Pierce and Raef LaFrentz. Well, it pays that these guys didn't win loads of NBA titles like Kobe; I could only imagine how many navboxes are there; good thing he skipped college! –HTD 17:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is intentionally not a mass-nomination. I am allowing that FIBA World Championship might have different significance for different countries. For U.S. players, not medaling in a sport they are expected to dominate is not notable. For the American players in this case, it fails WP:NAVBOX No. 1 "The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent", and No 5. "You would want to list many of these articles in the See also sections of the articles." Perhaps for other countries, those points may be met.—Bagumba (talk) 19:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • For those not familiar with the low interest level of the basketball world cup in the US, this is from Orlando Sentinel: "As much as we might love our NBA stars, few of us are paying attention to the FIBA World Cup — the tournament that serves as a qualifier for the 2016 Olympic Games. It's a big deal….for other countries. Not for America."—Bagumba (talk) 19:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, the 2002 FIBA World Cup lost so much money, USA Basketball taught other organizers how not to run a World Cup.
      • I'd say it passes #1; they refer to each other, to a reasonable extent. We do this to World Cups (and even continental championships) of other (major) team sports, whether or not they won medals. As for #5, we all know the US is mad about college basketball, but would listing every conference MVP award and consensus all-American be a violation of that too? I mean, AFAIK, there aren't any similar navboxes for all-NBA teams. I don't people remember Jay Williams as a college conference MVP all these years ago. Heck, there's even a navbox for the IBM Award. These national team navboxes are mostly composed of NBAers since the open era, not college kids, which isn't the top level of the sport. –HTD 19:53, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Regarding the other college awards, I'm not sure if you are arguing WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, so this should stay, or why do those other ones exist if this is going to be deleted. Navbox creep is rampant in sports, and I can speculate on the reasons why. All I can say is we can remove them one at a time, inasmuch as we can, which is better than nothing. Otherwise, sports editors will essentially have free rein to turn any list of people into a navbox.—Bagumba (talk) 23:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Aside from perhaps the 1992 "Dream Team", I'd expect very few FA/GA quality bios of American NBA players to discuss much about other national team teammates, unless it is related to NBA play. Thus, I'd argue they don't "refer to each other, to a reasonable extent" (#1).—Bagumba (talk) 23:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Those college awards absolutely fail criterion #1, don't you think? I don't think there'd be something about Jay Williams' College Player of the Year award at Bill Walton's article, right? But it does include a tiny sentence about his participation at the 2002 FIBA World Championship. National team navboxes are standard fare at major team sports. Heck, there's even {{United States Squad 2011 Rugby World Cup}}. These awards are better handled by a category, not a navbox.
          • Having a separate standard for the U.S. basketball team and another every other team in every other sport doesn't make sense, don't you think? Even NBA.com's and ESPN's profile of George Karl mention him as the coach of the 2002 team. This isn't just an afterthought. The Bill Simmons even wrote about this. If it's not notable, it should not be notable at all cases, whether or not they won a medal.
          • I guess you'd also have to give some importance on other countries' interest, not just the U.S. when it comes to considering things such as this. After all, some countries competed against the U.S. in this tournament, which means there has to be some interest on who made up the US team their team was playing against. Americans don't usually care about Cristiano Ronaldo, but was jokingly acclaimed as a "great American hero" when his goals secured USA's qualification to the 2010 FIFA World Cup knockout round. Same thing here. –HTD 11:35, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • Certainly there are other templates that are candidates to be deleted too, but let's focus on the one nominated here. Putting this discussion into proper context, this is not whether the subject is notable for an article, it is whether a navbox in this specific case is worthy of compounding template creep. I don't believe it is improving Wikipedia for it's readers by giving carte blanche to editors to churn out any and all national team navboxes.—Bagumba (talk) 22:11, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
              • I'd certainly it'll be of massive help for readers to find out that Raef LaFrentz played for Team USA alongside Reggie Miller, don't you think? Like, who would have thought? Simmons? Besides, out of all of the FIBA World Cups and Olympics, this is the only US team that didn't medal, and leaving this out because of "lack of US interest" means we should ditch the all remaining FIBA World Cup and FIBA Americas Championship navboxes because there wasn't much interest anyway even if the US won a medal.
              • I haven't made a hard count, but it looks like the average number of navboxes for each player is five. That could be a lot, but certainly not a lot compared to Kobe Bryant nineteen navboxes. If we're making an exception to the universally accepted rule elsewhere of having navboxes for participating teams in a major world cup for "lack of interest in the US" despite some interest elsewhere, and the fact that we have one (or should have one), there has to be a better argument. Like "some players don't have articles", or "this isn't mentioned at all in the subject's article". If any of those is true, then there truly is lack of interest. –HTD 23:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: There are 16 participating teams at the 2002 FIBA World Championship, and all but one (poor Algeria lol) have a navbox. Similarly, all 20 2011 Rugby World Cup teams have navboxes, all 16 2015 Cricket World Cup teams have navboxes, all 16 2015 World Men's Handball Championship teams have navboxes, all 16 2013 World Baseball Classic teams have navboxes (plus an all-star team!)... I could go on, and I don't even have to cite FIFA World Cup navboxes. You could call it WP:OSE, but readers expect to see navboxes such as this in World Cups/Championships and it would be disservice to our readers, American or not, if it's deleted for a flimsy reason "as lack of interest in the U.S.", as if that's our only criterion. –HTD 23:38, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For those who fashion "other stuff" arguments, Template:Infobox basketball biography only has medal_templates to list medals earned on national teams. There is no capability in the infobox to exhaustively list all national teams, because there has been no consensus it is notable for basketball infoboxes. I don't know why we would force template creep for items that aren't important enough for the infobox. Advise deleting for the American-basketball specific reasons in the nomination, as opposed to blind OSE application from other domains.—Bagumba (talk) 19:38, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • FWIW, judging from the Lionel Messi article, the soccer (and probably other sports') infobox(es) also lists just the medal-winning national team appearances, but is inclusive in the navbox for national team appearances in the senior continental, Olympic and World Cup levels, and presumably just on those levels. Football biographies don't have navboxes for national teams on under-X tournaments; even club-level navboxes are pretty sparse. They do have plenty of individual award navboxes, but again, almost all for "end of season awards". –HTD 10:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete, navbox creep. Frietjes (talk) 13:46, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 13:07, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:DFTBA Records edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:54, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:DFTBA Records (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Rosters of record labels are not suitable for navboxes. Imagine if there was one for, say, Geffen Records artists. Rob Sinden (talk) 13:39, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That argument doesn't really work, seeing how other labels, such as Shady Records & Def Jam Recordings include their current and former artists in those corresponding templates. Soulbust (talk) 19:13, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFF. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:13, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 12:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete Rosters of record labels are far too fluid. The Banner talk 00:04, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Josh Trank edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. He may still be active, but given our notability standards and typical Hollywood time frames, it's very unlikely this will be expanded sooner than two years or so from now. --BDD (talk) 20:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Josh Trank (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Only 2 links. WP:NENAN. Rob Sinden (talk) 13:21, 25 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 12:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Africa Labelled Map Portals edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Africa Labelled Map Portals (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned template. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Acid2 edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:52, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Acid2 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Old unused testing template. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Abrahamic religions edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:51, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abrahamic religions (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned template. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Abortion law infobox edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abortion law infobox (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned template. Abortion_law#National_laws uses a table instead. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete no parameters are evident, making this a subst-only template. But it should not be so, and it should be written to use {{infobox}} but it doesn't. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 06:41, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Abkhazian railway edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abkhazian railway (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned template. Article uses Template:Adler-Sukhumi railway line instead. Ricky81682 (talk) 05:49, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Abidjan Basket Club 2011-12 edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:48, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abidjan Basket Club 2011-12 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Orphaned template Ricky81682 (talk) 05:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Florida Hospitals edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:47, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Florida Hospitals (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Large and clunky template, need is handled by Category:Hospitals in Florida. Dough4872 03:49, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Duval County, Miami-Dade County, Orange County, and Pinellas County could probably have templates of their own, if needed. --Molandfreak (talk, contribs, email) 05:25, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The template doesn't completely overlap the purpose of Category:Florida hospitals. The navbox notes hospitals by county and counties without any hospitals. I think the "chunky"ness of the template can be fixed by reformatting it, perhaps with collapsible embedded navboxes (not sure of proper term) for hospitals by region. AHeneen (talk) 18:29, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete, better served by a category or a list article in the current form. Frietjes (talk) 21:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not particularly useful for navigation, and also has quasi-undefined inclusion criteria. We have both Category:Hospitals in Florida and List of hospitals in Florida; the template is simply duplicative. Neutralitytalk 21:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Detailed List of Wikipedias edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Detailed List of Wikipedias (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

single use template. These tables can be included in the main article List of Wikipedias. The Banner talk 01:43, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral but leaning towards keep, I had separated it out from the main article to make it easier for me to update and edit, however if other users find that that makes it harder for them to edit it, then it can be merged back into the article, I'm ok either way, but I do think that it is easier to update as a template. Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 02:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I learn towards making it easier for editors (especially new editors) to learn how the wiki works. Per Wikipedia:Template namespace, a template should not used to store article text. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:47, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thats fair, I shall merge the template back into the article and you can delete the template. Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 14:49, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Puerto Rico Highways edit

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The result of the discussion was delete. --BDD (talk) 19:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Puerto Rico Highways (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Per WP:USRD/P#State highway system templates, these sorts of templates (for VA, WV, NY, FL, OR, NH, RI, VT, OH, HI, PA, MT, VI, IL, AL and IN) were deleted years ago. In those cases, they were judged to be redundant to the list(s) linked from the bottom of {{infobox road}} that appears on every highway article, as well as the appropriate categories.

In this case, there is List of highways in Puerto Rico linked from the bottom of the infobox, the same previous/next browsing system as used on the mainland (which can be seen on Puerto Rico Highway 2), and Category:Highways in Puerto Rico. Imzadi 1979 → 01:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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