Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 January 14

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January 14

Ouker/Ochre vs. Oquirrh

OK, the Indians gave us the name of the mountains and the pronunciation. However, they probably didn't know how to spell at the time, so where did we, essentially the invaders of the territory, decide the spelling should be Oquirrh? Do we know the originator?

You have many requirements to be fulfilled just to ask a question. Hope this gets through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.202.252 (talk) 01:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I have altered the formatting of this question to remove the boxes around it. Matt Deres (talk) 03:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps someone was thinking of myrrh. —Tamfang (talk) 03:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

See Shoshone_language#Writing_System. --Sean 16:49, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how that link answers the question, Sean. Or are you saying that one of the references therein discusses it? --ColinFine (talk) 18:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it deepens the mystery, since Shoshone apparently has no "r". Adam Bishop (talk) 19:43, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

According to Oquirrh Mountains, it's a Goshute word. Goshutes are apparently a tribe within the Shoshone tribes, and speak/spoke a variant of their language. The link I gave gives pointers to two different writing systems for Shoshone, which will presumably elucidate the spelling. I agree it was not a stellar response. --Sean 20:01, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Thames Valley Eggs

What happened to Thames Valley Eggs? One used to see their lorries all over the place, and their eggs in the supermarket, but apparently no more. Did they change name, go bust, or what?

This says that they were taken over by Stonegate. I found that by doing a search at Google News for "Thames Valley Eggs" (quotes included so that it searched for that specific phrase). Dismas|^(talk) 04:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Hat

Why is it disrespectful to wear a hat inside a restaurant? jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 03:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

It is disrespectful for men to wear hats inside, period. It's a cultural norm. The phrase "cultural norm" is sociologist-speak for "It's just what we do". --Jayron32 04:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Right. See this Yahoo Answer - manya (talk) 04:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Someone should tell sportspeople like Lleyton Hewitt et al about this rule. They have a very annoying habit of conducting news conferences with a cap on, often hunched over the desk, and their face is virtually invisible. What are they hiding, or hiding from? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 04:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Judging by the pics in the article, he only ever wears them backwards. Dismas|^(talk) 04:39, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That's on court. At the media conferences, it's like this. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 08:48, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Regretfully one of those old fashioned courtesies that has fallen by the wayside, especially by the young. (ignorant slobs, badly brought up!)--85.211.160.26 (talk) 08:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Bear in mind that many professionals in sport are sponsored by a multitude of enterprises. These companies want to see their logo displayed when such a sporting person is interviewed. As a result they wear caps, blazers and probably even underwear which is adorned with the commercial symbols of the sponsoring enterprise. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

NOTE: such a cultural norm is culture specific, of course. Orthodox Jewish men who wear hats do not take them off when they are inside, and if they're not wearing a hat but only a yarmulka, they do not remove that either. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 10:10, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect you would know: The theory behind the head covering in the synagogue is humbling oneself before God. Women as well as men are expected to wear a head covering in the synagogue or while praying, right? In churches (as with most any indoor setting), men doff their hats, but women usually keep theirs on. I expect that's more cultural than religious - as well as practical, in that women's hats were often held in place by pins, and re-pinning later would be a nuisance. This trend of wearing hats indoors (especially baseball caps) is hard to figure. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:49, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

FYI, the men covering and women uncovering during worship is explicit in 1 Cor 11:2-6. It's worth saying that not all churches follow this rule anymore. Staecker (talk) 13:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, earlier I almost said that men uncovering and women covering was religious-based, but it occurred to me it seemed more culturual. But the scripture you cite does indeed give a religious basis... along with a bunch of sexist drivel, but that's another story. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:17, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Why is it disrespectful though? it may be "the norm" or "tradition", to do so, but why? I can't say that anyone has ever told me to take my hat off indoors, and in fact in one of my jobs (in a kitchen) we have to wear our caps whenever we are in there... gazhiley.co.uk 13:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

An exception to the rule would be when wearing a head covering is part of the "uniform" of the job you're doing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That's my point - what "rule"?!! Just one of those things I suppose... gazhiley.co.uk 14:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

This article [1] (found via hat) says that as recently as the 19th century, hats were worn indoors, for instance in offices. I wonder if that includes private homes and churches, though, and of course what about restaurants? (The thought occurs that there must be 19th c. paintings of restaurant scenes which could be checked for hats.) Headgear#Headgear_etiquette mentions the traditions but doesn't explain them (or cite anything). Britannica claims [2] a connection to knights wearing helmets. (Similar knight-based explanations exist for shaking hands with the right hand, and the chirality of men's buttons.) Not sure how a helmeted knight would behave in an office. 81.131.18.187 (talk) 15:23, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Legend has it that in the late 19th century, electric utility switch operators in power stations and substations were expected to wear hats. When they interrupted a circuit by pulling out a plug from a switchboard, they used the hat to fan out the arc. This was found to be an unsafe way to switch high voltage AC circuits, so oil switches were later introduced. Edison (talk) 17:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

(OR:) Many rules of ettiquette are essentially arbitrary (as can be seen by the way they change with both place and time) and I would argue have the primary purpose of distinguishing those that follow them from those that don't. They often have a strong rationalisation in the culture, though. "Respect" is often part of this rationalisation. I can see that some behaviours (eg kneeling, looking downward) may be universally construed as showing respect, but in many cases nothing but the cultural norms specify that some action is respectful or disrespectful. So to me "we do that to show respect" often means no more than "we do that because that's what proper people do here". --ColinFine (talk) 18:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The Quakers and other radical Protestants used to look upon the custom as idolatrous "hat worship", and would pointedly refuse to remove their hats before authority figures or when going indoors. This rebellion was once widely known and associated with Quakers, such that if Mr. Jones were to absentmindedly wear his hat indoors he would be sarcastically addressed as "Friend Jones", in the Quaker style. LANTZY^TALK 18:44, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

"I can't say that anyone has ever told me to take my hat off indoors" ... In the USA, you will be removed from a courtroom if you refuse to remove your hat, unless there's a religious reason to wear it. 63.17.73.245 (talk) 03:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

That was already a well-established rule when this comedy was made. Go about 45 seconds in:[3] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:09, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I have seen men asked to leave Royal Canadian Legion halls in Canada for refusing to remove their headgear. Bielle (talk) 04:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

It is also common to forbid hatwearing inside American schools or some other youth culture areas where fears of hats indicating gang allegiance exist. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 15:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)