Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 August 4

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August 4

Variety-speak

This Variety magazine review of I Walk Alone states "Lancaster belts over his assignment ..." What the heck does "belts over" mean? Clarityfiend (talk) 04:05, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps to move or act in a speedy, vigorous, or violent manner? --2603:6081:1C00:1187:B966:D27C:3753:543A (talk) 06:25, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Maybe a variation of "knocks/belts it out of the park", meaning "handily successful". --Khajidha (talk) 00:11, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

French translation requested.

Could any able French reader offer a translation of the text in the newspaper report shown in this image? Many thanks for your time. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:52, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

"For about the last three months, a Dutch painter named Mr. Van Gogh, who is the brother of the well-like agent from the Goupil company, resided in Auvers-sur-Oise, in a hotel next to city hall.

Since his arrival, Mr. Van Gogh worked feverishly and led what appeared to have been an uneventful life.

On Sunday evening, around seven, Mr. Van Gogh left the hotel, heading towards the castle, and at nine, he came back with a smile on his face and completely calm, even though his stomach had been punctured by a gunshot. Mr. Van Gogh had attempted suicide.

- Am I spitting blood? he asked while keeping absolutely calm.

- No, came the answer.

- Well, I missed myself again.

Indeed, it was the second time that he had apparently attempted to end his life.

In spite of the professional and devoted care provided by Drs. Mazery and Gachet, who were summoned quickly, Mr. Van Gogh died on Tuesday at one p.m. after enduring great pain.

Mr. Van Gogh was a protestant. His funeral took place on Wednesday, at three o'clock.

His brother and Dr. Gachet, a friend of the deceased who gave a deeply emotional eulogy, were the chief mourners. Many artists came from Paris, including Messrs. Pisaro (sic), Los Kios and Tom, and the entire artistic community of Auvers-sur-Oise, which is quite numerous at this time, wanted to pay their last respects to this man defeated by his art and by life, who was stranded in this blond and sunny hollow, where he had seemingly come to seek his final rest." Xuxl (talk) 15:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Xuxl. It's quite moving. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, nicely worded translation. Rather than "Dutch", it says he's "of Dutch origin". --184.144.99.72 (talk) 19:49, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

More idiomatic: "Since about three months, ...". Obviously, "well-like" above is a typo for "well-liked". I think French "plaine" correspond to English "plain": "who ended up in the middle of this blond and sun-lit plain".  --Lambiam 21:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

"Since about three months..." would not be correct English. --Viennese Waltz 21:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I suspect "plaine blonde et ensoleille" might be more usually rendered as "sunlit golden plain", as blonde is usually only for hair in English. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, one can imagine a plain blonde, but not a blonde plain. DuncanHill (talk) 21:43, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

**groan** Most Likely You Go Your Way and I'll Go Mine. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Regrettably, the only part that prompted this request was "l'estomache troué par une balle de revolver." The discussion in question may be found at Talk:Vincent van Gogh#‎Bullet wound: chest or abdomen? But having the entire translation is very useful. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Appreciate the help. I think English is unique in its use of blonde for only hair; Mexican poet Manuel Gutiérrez Nájera, according to [1], loosely translated the similar phrase "la plaine blonde" by François Coppée as "rubios trigales de espigas doradas" ("blonde fields of golden ears [of wheat]"). Hexcodes (talk) 03:55, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

This translator [2] used "sun-blanched plain." Hexcodes (talk) 04:02, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Um, "plaine" can be "hollow"? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:57, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps the interpretation should be made in the context of the actual local topography. Is Auvers-sur-Oise and its surrounds suggestive of a plain or a hollow? My impression from photographs is that the latter may indeed be more applicable. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.68 (talk) 18:28, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Well I guess we don't know who wrote that column or where he lived. I was probably assuming he didn't need photographs. But who knows. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you meant that "plaine" can mean "hollow." The report appeared in the local paper of the region, headquartered in nearby Beaumont-sur-Oise, so I agree that the columnist was probably familiar with the locality. My available French dictionaries do not support "hollow", and although the town seems from its article's photos to be in a steep-sided valley, van Gogh's paintings of the area often show flatter countryside with fields of cereal crops, consistent with "plain." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.68 (talk) 03:48, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

"Ça plaine pour moi". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:31, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Having a relatively flat plain with a country side of cereal crops set inside a steep-sided valley are not mutually exclusive. The Shenandoah Valley in Virginia would be described exactly like that. It's certainly a plain on the valley floor, but it is surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountains on one side and Massanutten Mountain Ridge on the other. I'm not as familiar with the geography of France as I am of Virginia, but being in a valley and being on a plain are not mutually exclusive situations. --Jayron32 16:47, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

We all seem to be furiously agreeing with each other and repeating the same things in different words. Although the actual ambiguosity (did the columnist mean "plain" as seems more natural, "hollow" as Martinevans123 first translated it, or indeed something better rendered by another English word or phrase?) isn't at this point critical to the contents of any article. If someone really wants to know, perhaps they could contact someone relevant in Auvers-sur-Oise, such as a staff member of the Institut Van Gogh, and ask for their assessment. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.68 (talk) 19:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Did I? I thought it was Xuxl. Never mind, good to get Jayron's angle. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

My mistake, it was indeed Xuxl. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.62.68 (talk) 23:26, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I see no ambiguity. French plaine means "plain", in the sense of a flat expanse of land. In English, it is not uncommon to use the plural form "plains" for this sense. In Quebecois French plaine can also mean "maple tree" , but I think we can rule this out. It just does not mean "hollow".  --Lambiam 17:12, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, although in my experience "plains" is not a word associated with the UK. What the French might describe as "une plaine dans le Somerset" we actually call the Somerset Levels! Martinevans123 (talk) 17:24, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

"Une plaine côtière dans le Somerset". Something entirely different. --Askedonty (talk) 19:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

There's Cheshire Plain, Solway Plain and Salisbury Plain. Alansplodge (talk) 22:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, of course. But any "plains", as in the scale of these or these? Salisbury looks quite quaint by comparison. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Salisbury Plain is 775 square km, so more than an afternoon's stroll. We're just a little island, so none of our landscapes are vast expanses, which is a good thing or so we like to think. Alansplodge (talk) 23:31, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. We've got Virginia Water. But not exactly Virginia Plain. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:09, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

plaine also means lowland (source), particularly when used in contrast with words meaning hills or mountains 70.67.193.176 (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, that makes more sense. Maybe that meaning was more common in 1890. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)