Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 December 4

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December 4

Pants

What is the origin of the phrase "I am pants at (X)" meaning "I am bad at (X)"? 138.192.86.254 01:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

England? Recury 19:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

As a Brit, this is a phrase I use a lot (much to the amusement of the Americans I now live with). I'm not exactly use of its origin, but British language has a long standing tradition of both absurdity and toilet humour, which may be applicable here, as pants in British English refers to underpants, rather than the American meaning, which is what Brits would call trousers. Often the phrase "It's pants" will be embellished to something like "It's a load of stinking old-man pants. With skidmarks." (apologies for the mental imagery that may bring up, but it's kind of the point. And I've deliberately not wikified the term 'skidmarks' because if you don't already know, you don't want to. ;P) --Monorail Cat (talk) 00:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a red link anyway... —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 05:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Not any more ... Neil ☎ 14:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

What is it with Brits and clothing idioms? One of my favorites is "oh don't be such a big girl's blouse." --LarryMac | Talk 15:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I would rather you answer this question correctly

The question in question is: What is the part of speech of the word "rather" in the above heading? -- JackofOz 02:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It's an adverb meaning "on the contrary". "Would" is a stand-alone verb here meaning "wish". There's an elliptical "that" in there. "Answer" is subjunctive (and we thought it was dead). An equivalent sentence is "I wish on the contrary that you might answer this question correctly." Did I pass the test? --Milkbreath 02:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

We're you hoping I'd reply with "Ra-ther!"?  :) -- JackofOz 12:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Gosh, I'm not a native speaker, but here are my thoughts: Take the phrase: "I'd rather go now". There, rather is clearly an adverb.

I guess the whole phrase "I'd rather" has crystallized into a fixed expression. Hence, it's difficult to analize one of its elements alone.

Take for instance because: Many years this expression was bi cause [1]. And cause was a noun in it. But now such analysis has no sense. Pallida  Mors 02:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that "I'd rather" is now a fixed expression (an idiom) and that its origin is with "would" as a stand-alone verb (the subjunctive of "will", I think) and "rather" as an adverb. However, I suggest that the adverb did not mean "on the contrary", but rather, something like "preferably". It is not quite the same sense that "rather" has in the previous sentence, since the latter sense implies a sort of comparison, but it is related. --Anonymous, 05:00 UTC, December 4, 2007.

So, what you're saying is that fixed idiomatic expressions stand alone, if you like, and cannot be parsed word for word? I certainly accept that the meaning comes from the whole expression rather than from the individual words, but the syntax ....? Interesting idea. Let me think on that for a while. -- JackofOz 12:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

"Rather" can be directly replaced by "sooner" which seems to be its synonym. (O.E. hraþor "more quickly, earlier, sooner," also "more readily," comparative of hraþe, hræþe "quickly," related to hræð "quick," from P.Gmc. *khrathuz (cf. O.N. hraðr, O.H.G. hrad). The base form rathe was obsolete by 18c. except in poetry; superlative rathest fell from use by 17c. Meaning "more willingly" is recorded from 1297; sense of "more truly" is attested from c.1380. [2] Surely you can safely parse it as an adverb? SaundersW 16:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

UN Resolutions in English

Do resolutions passed by the United Nations use British or American spelling in English?--Sicilian-American 02:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

See United Nations#Languages.--K.C. Tang 03:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Shorthand?

I was doing some work in an archive today and among a bunch of regular writing I found this:

shorthand?

shorthand?

The author was an old-school American scientist (—I am pretty sure it is shorthand? But I wasn't able to really figure out what the heck it meant, and I've never really done anything with shorthand before. Note that this is my re-copying of the original (as best I could!) so there might be little errors in it that are imperceptible to me.

If anyone had any suggestions as to what it might say, I'd be very interested. I'm intrigued that it's the only thing in these archival papers that was written like this (everything else is just in English) and I'm pretty curious as to what it says. Thanks a ton. --Panoptik 07:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It looks like Gregg Shorthand (example). I can't read it, unfortunately, but there is a lot of information about older forms of it on the Web. --Cam 20:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

It also looks like the scribbles of someone writing in Cursive Hebrew. Reading right to left, the first two letters look like unintelligble scribbles, but the rest could read, "רטמיעירלח", or R-T-M-I-E-I-R-L-KH. That's probably gibberish, but it might mean something to somebody. Was your scientist Jewish or an Orientalist by any chance? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 05:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

No. I find it pretty unlikely he is writing in Hebrew—he's not Jewish and I didn't get any impression that he'd know the language. --Panoptik (talk) 18:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Could you upload a photograph of the original with some surrounding text? TheMathemagician (talk) 16:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have the original. It looks pretty similar to that, though. There is no surrounding text except for "Re: Section IX:" making it clear that he is quoting someone's comments on Section IX on some report. No context, which is part of why I'm so intrigued by it... --Panoptik (talk) 18:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

attributable

Our results provide evidence that two mechanisms are attributable to the induction of tolerance by transplantation; or Our results provide evidence that the induction of tolerance by transplantation is attributable to two mechanisms. --Seans Potato Business 15:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

If I understand that gobbledygook, the second one. It says that two mechanisms seem to be responsible for the induction. The first one says that the induction seems to cause two mechanisms, which seems unlikely given the ordinary meaning of "mechanism". --Milkbreath 15:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

That's right. The mechanisms cause the induction, not the other way round. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Latinise this title please?

Will someone translate this to Latin, please? It's meant to be the title of a scholarly 17th century treatise.

"Botanical Prodigies of the Middle and Lower Heavens"

Thank you very much.

Adambrowne666 19:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Assuming that here "prodigy" is meant to mean "something marvelous" and not a young person with some exceptional talent, you might use De Prodigiis Botanicis Cœlorum Mediorum ac Inferiorum. I have changed the title to "On Botanical Prodigies...", since that would be the typical way to express the title in a Latin scholarly treatise.  --Lambiam 20:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

that's beautiful, and amazingly quick - but very rudely, can I crave your indulgence a little more and ask if it's possible to come up with a word for Heavens/Universe/Cosmos that's more like its English counterpart, and so more easily guessable by those (me) who don't know Latin? Thanks again, lambiam Adambrowne666 21:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Cosmorum would fit, but I don't know whether it has any subtler meanings that might be inappropriate (my dictionary gives it as universe or one of the chief magistrates of Crete). Daniel (‽) 22:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

If the recipient of the fruits of your labour may be expected to be familiar with the word "sphere" meaning one of the transparant orbs around the Earth serving as the mode of transport for the heavenly bodies, you could go with Sphærarum Mediarum ac Inferiarum. The word cosmos, meaning "world", is really Greek and (as far as I know) not used in Latin texts, which would have used mundus (from which "mundane" is formed) instead. Maybe "celestial realms": Regnorum Cælestium Mediorum ac Inferiorum? Or "heavenly bodies": Corporum Cælestium? If all else fails, you could use Universorum. If understandability is an issue, you can also replace the word ac by et.  --Lambiam 03:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I love you guys. Adambrowne666 (talk) 18:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Two very minor tweaks to the excellent suggestions above: (1) inferorum and inferarum (not inferiorum and inferiarum; the former could be a comparative form [3rd decl.], but the latter could only be the genitive of "rites for the dead," and inferus a um by itself means "lower"). (2) Atque and not ac before a vowel, if you want your 17th c. scholar to be more classicizing (ac is freely used before vowels in postclassical Latin, so this is hardly essential). Wareh (talk) 19:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - so if it begins De Prodigiis Botanicis Corporum Caelestium ..." can I ask what the rest of it would be, with your tweaks? - sorry, bit confused now. Adambrowne666 (talk) 11:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

De Prodigiis Botanicis Corporum Caelestium Mediorum atque Inferorum. Wareh (talk) 14:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, wonderful! Adambrowne666 (talk) 21:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Wash your mouth out!

Inspired by this page, and its mention of an Inverted Jenny, I was wondering, what's the most dirty sounding, but in fact completely innocent phrase you can think of?

I don't mean euphamism, just something that sounds like some kind of perverted sexual act, but is in fact something completely different, such a a technical term.

Some candidates that spring to mind are:

• "When I told her I was into philately, she offered to give me an Inverted Jenny" (from page above)
• "I needed to flash his dongle"
• Probably just about anything involving mastication

I know this is really childish, but hey, I'm easily amused. Sorry ;) --Monorail Cat (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

From Claude Pepper:

• Part of American political lore is the Smathers "redneck speech," which Smathers reportedly delivered to a poorly educated audience. The "speech" was never given; it was a hoax dreamed up by one reporter. Smathers did not say, as was reported in Time Magazine during the campaign: "Are you aware that Claude Pepper is known all over Washington as a shameless extrovert? Not only that, but this man is reliably reported to practice nepotism with his sister-in-law, and he has a sister who was once a thespian in wicked New York. Worst of all, it is an established fact that Mr. Pepper, before his marriage, habitually practiced celibacy." The Smathers campaign denied his having made the speech, as did the reporters who covered his campaign, but the hoax followed Smathers to his death. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've heard he was a known heterosexual, too. --Milkbreath (talk) 00:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

And a homosapien! Is there no end to the man's depravity?! --Monorail Cat (talk) 00:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

How shocking!! -- JackofOz (talk) 01:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought that matriculate sounded, well...like another word starting with "m" and ending in -ate. :-) So, take a college course that sounds naughty, a college whose initials might be a little off, say you're matriculating there, and that will work well.

As an alternative, the town of Kissimmee, Florida, really did have to change the name of the minor league baseball team, once they changed affiliates to the major league Houston Astros. So, there are some good places to start there, or with a Kissimmiee astronaut (who is matriculating somewhere). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.3.19.1 (talk) 23:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

When I went up to Durham, the entire new first year matriculated en masse in the cathedral! DuncanHill (talk) 15:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Just about anything involving the word "moist".

Insert a word from a foreign language, especially French - "She kissed me on my bouche". Steewi (talk) 00:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

You can also play the alternative game of using little-known words that actually have a genital/sexual connotation but the listener isn't aware of that and thinks they mean something else. For example, after meeting your old teacher, a Catholic nun, in the street and exchanging pleasantries with her, you could depart with "A merkin for your quim, sister. Good day".  :) JackofOz (talk) 01:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Does it say something bad about me that I knew both of those terms without having to look them up? --Monorail Cat (talk) 01:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Certainly not. There's absolutely nothing wrong with either merkins or quims. People who like this sort of thing will probably find this is the sort of thing they like. To each their own. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 13:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Who was the poet who memorably mistook the meaning of twat? DuncanHill (talk) 15:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Robert Browning in Pippa's Song. [3] Marnanel (talk) 12:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

One day at university, many years ago, I was talking to a friend about something or other, and he said, 'Oh, how cunning of you!', and as I was and still am a linguist, this now well-known expression combining these words became my day-to-day nickname, all of 14 years ago. It's impossible to get that user-name on practically any website now. --ChokinBako (talk) 01:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

See also festinate and defenestrate, pedantry, Wang Computers, homosocial, heterosocial, ... Steewi (talk) 02:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention the old playground favorite, "Your epidermis is showing!" —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 05:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I am jenticulating as I read this.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Cunning linguist reminds me of Mr Spooner and his cunning stunts. Lanfear's Bane | t 11:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

What about the comedian Kenny Everett's 'Cupid Stunt' character?--ChokinBako (talk) 04:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought "Your Eminence" was an inappropriate form of address for one who is supposed to be celibate. Nowadays, though.... --Milkbreath (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Just so long as you kiss his ring... DuncanHill (talk) 15:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

One could always congratulate a builder on his magnificent erections. -- JackofOz (talk) 13:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Captain, Your coxswain is stuck on the poop deck! Well, get him unstuck and then have some seamen thoroughly swab that deck. hurrr Azi Like a Fox (talk) 14:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought her name sounded like some sort of sexual perversion, Pippa Funnell - X201 (talk) 15:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Tittle, which is the proper name for the dot on a lowercase i or j. Natalie (talk) 18:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Formication gives me a gentle tickling sensation. Adambrowne666 (talk) 18:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Along the lines of mastication, there is Maceration. You can ask someone "What do you think about when you macerate?" Marco polo (talk) 20:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Anything said by Jules and Sandy..hotclaws 03:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

That's Julian and Sandy. Marnanel (talk) 12:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The children's cartoon from the 1970s, Captain Pugwash, was well-rumoured to have two characters called Seaman Staines and Master Bates, but I read recently on a random website that they were actually called Seaman Bates and Master Staines. --ChokinBako (talk) 04:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Our article on Captain Pugwash covers the existence of this myth quite well. Marnanel (talk) 12:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

When at church, make sure you congratulate the vicar for his magnificent organ, he may weel appreciate the offer of giving it a good polish from time to time. DuncanHill (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

On meeting a Scotsman, one should always ask how often he tosses his caber. DuncanHill (talk) 12:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Many Italians like nothing better than a mouthful of tentacles. DuncanHill (talk) 12:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

No-one ever forgets their first seven incher. DuncanHill (talk) 23:06, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Attempting to translate a term like bilabial plosive could lead to trouble. Matt Deres (talk) 02:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If your coccyx hurts, give it a rub. DuncanHill (talk) 04:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

There's a joke that goes like this: John, a teenage boy is sitting on the couch at his girlfriend's house, waiting for her to come downstairs for their date. Her parents are also sitting in the room with him. The girlfriend's mother speaks up and says, "We have been wanting to tell you something important about our daughter, John. She has acute angina." "Well!" says John, "That's a relief! I've seen her breasts, and they ain't nothin' to brag about!" Saukkomies 05:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)