Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 July 24

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July 24

Pl. help confirm author of the quote and source, if different

Following is quote from the Guardian's this article by Afnan Khan. From previous paragraph it seems a quote of Pakistani professor Mubarak Ali; or at least so is also assumed by Pakistani journalist and diplomat Maleeha Lodhi in her this the Dawn article. There upon the opinion seems to have been cited in various WP articles.

The Pakistani establishment taught their children right from the beginning that this state was built on the basis of religion – that's why they don't have tolerance for other religions and want to wipe-out all of them. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is a very narrow definition of who a real Pakistani and real Muslim is. Once minorities are out of the picture, they turn on other sects.

Following questions arise

1) Whose (above) opinion is? Professor Mubarak Ali's ? or Afnan Khan's own?

2) As such Professor Mubarak Ali's intro suggests he is quite likely to hold such opinions that's the likely reason another Pakistani journalist attributed the same to Mubarak Ali. If Afnan Khan is quoting from any of Urdu writings of Mubarak Ali identifying will be more difficult is understandable; but If it is Mubarak Ali's and from any of his English articles or books then please help identify the same.

Pl. help identify author of the above quote and source if that is different than Guardian

-- Bookku (talk) 07:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

HI Bookku, found on page 440 of The Vedic Core of Human History: And Truth Will Be the Savior, By M. K. Agarwal, where it is presented as a quote from either Gen Zia-ul-Haq or an editorial in the Dawn, not quite clear which as can't see page before...70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:16, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, just noticed how old the Guardian article is. Seems likely this book borrowed from the Guardian rather than the other way around. Will come back if find another answer. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Sure, would remain interested to get better clue as and when possible. Thanks for helping out. Bookku (talk) 05:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

The typography of these sentences in the Guardian article, an indented block in italics, is the same as for an earlier quotation ascribed to "an English Language textbook", making it clear that here we also are dealing with a quotation. In the context, three people are mentioned, the historian Professor Mubarak Ali, the former president Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, and the former military dictator Gen Zia-ul-Haq. The opinion expressed in the quotation is very obviously not that of either of the latter two; they cannot be the source. Our article on Mubarak Ali states that his main theme is that some history books written in Pakistan have been 'dictated' by the Pakistani establishment and represent a 'perversion of facts'. The opinion expressed in the quotation is perfectly aligned with this theme. IMO the only reasonable conclusion is that these are Mubarak Ali's words.  --Lambiam 14:24, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Incivility and personal attack issues among academic authors ?

How do Universities and private publishers handle incivility and personal attack issues of otherwise high profile and experienced academic authors and speakers. (Just for clarity, here I am not discussing student behavior but faculty / professor behavior)

Any examples of any high profile cases and / or research papers? -- Bookku (talk) 14:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Can you clarify what you mean by incivility? What examples from universities or private publishers do you have in mind? In general, universities have established codes of ethics and/or codes of conduct for professionals, and have means of sanctioning such professionals if they fall astray of those codes. Here is an example of one that I found. You'll likely find similar policies at other institutions. If a professor at a University publicly berates, insults, or harasses another professor, I would expect there to be consequences, and the involvement of the human resources department. --Jayron32 16:47, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

• Can you clarify what you mean by incivility?

Employing Ad hominem with purpose to insult and denigrate other persons.

• What examples from universities or private publishers do you have in mind?

No specific one. I asked this question since it's human to make mistakes and celebrity intellectuals too would be as much subject to misdemeanor from their side. Few of them may be commanding respect with their knowledge same time using bad language disrespecting others then how do institutions and their peers deal with the situation. Bookku (talk) 05:30, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Mostly what happens is that everyone else tries not to look like they're staring (but we're definitely staring). Formally, it will almost certainly be ignored. Informally, everyone will be spreading the goss about it at the pub later. Alternatively, everyone gets really mad on Twitter for a while and then the outrage dies down. -- asilvering (talk) 11:57, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

What the usual "trump is hell" type of people think of JFK?

What the usual "trump is hell on earth" type of people think of JFK?

Do they usually like JFK or not?~~ 168.227.189.254 (talk) 19:21, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

• Given that JFK usually ranks as one of the most popular presidents in US history, I would be willing to bet that the majority of those who strongly dislike Trump think well of JFK. I would also bet that a lot of Trump supporters think well of JFK. Blueboar (talk) 19:52, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

You can find rankings and other evaluations of the presidents by historians and by the public here:Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States. --Amble (talk) 19:56, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Who are 'the usual "trump is hell" type of people'? DuncanHill (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Does it matter? We can (and have) answered the question by assuming the OP has an idiosyncratic way of saying: “people who strongly dislike Trump”. We don’t need to parse it further. Blueboar (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The use of "usual" has a connotation that this is a well-known type with a uniform political view, while the Trump haters, if we may call them that, vary wildly in their political views. So it is really unclear what is being asked. It is like asking, What do the usual "cheese eaters" think of electric vehicles?  --Lambiam 09:42, 26 July 2023 (UTC)