Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 July 10

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July 10

Lloyd George, Thomas, Reading, and who else?

From left Albert Thomas, David Lloyd George, an officer, Lord Reading, another officer

Can anyone identify the two officers seen here with Albert Thomas, David Lloyd George, and Lord Reading please? The tall chap in the middle looks awfully familiar, but I can't place him. The photographer is Ernest Brooks. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 11:28, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

The tall one might be Archibald Murray? File:Murray wills.jpg He was Chief of the General Staff in late 1915, so would have had to deal with politicians, but went off to Egypt in January 1916. The smaller one might be Julian Byng? The scruffy cap certainly fits. Moustaches were compulsory until 1917, so they're all a bit similar-looking. Alansplodge (talk) 11:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

There's a higher definition version of the picture here. Zooming in I don't think it's Murray, our chap has more of a toothbrush. I don't think the other fellow is Byng (tho' I see what you mean). He's got one row of scrambled egg on his cap, so not a general, either a brigadier or a colonel, I think the shoulder-boards look like a colonel's, but it's hard to say. DuncanHill (talk) 13:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, meant to add the picture is dated 1916 in the book I saw it in. DuncanHill (talk) 14:02, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Here we have Thomas, Reading, and Lloyd George "at 14th Army Headquarters at Meaulte on the Somme" on 12 September 1916. DuncanHill (talk) 14:13, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Not wishing to contradict the sages of the National Army Museum, but we don't appear to have had a Fourteenth Army (United Kingdom) until 1943. Perhaps a typo for Fourth Army (United Kingdom), which was formed in 1916 for service on the Somme? Alansplodge (talk) 16:33, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

If so, the local great panjandrum would have been Henry Rawlinson. Looks similar perhaps? Alansplodge (talk) 16:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Possibly, it also struck me it might be a slip for XIV Corps, under Cavan, who in some pictures looks a bit like scruffy-cap man. DuncanHill (talk) 16:53, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe, here he is in 1929 after his moustache had gone grey and he'd bought a new cap. Alansplodge (talk) 17:11, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

This says XIV Army Corps. DuncanHill (talk) 17:20, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Which seems to have been part of Fourth Army. Alansplodge (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Birthplace of Edwina Mountbatten, née Ashley

I need a reliable source for the birthplace of Edwina Mountbatten. I believe it to be 32 Bruton Street, her parent's London house, but neither Janet Morgan nor Richard Hough say this explicitly. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 16:18, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

According to this, the family also had a house at 13 Cadogan Square, but her actual birthplace eludes me. Alansplodge (talk) 16:54, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I kept on coming across "Broadlands", and a search for Edwina Cynthia Ashley Broadlands in Google Books returns the snippet "Edwina - Cynthia - Annette Ashley des barons Mount Temple, née à Broadlands, Hampshire, 28 nov. 1901. "And dark the Almanach de Gotha p. 372, and dark the sun and moon..." MinorProphet (talk) 22:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Richard Hough has her mother going into labour in their London house on the 27th, attended by two gynaecologists from Harley Street, and giving birth the next day. The thing is there were other London houses apart from Bruton Street available to them. DuncanHill (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Just goes to show you can't believe a thing you read, eh? MinorProphet (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Duncan seems unaware that the birthplace was amended to "32 Bruton Street" yesterday morning, citing the Mountbatten family website as a reference. 92.8.221.69 (talk) 17:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

DH asked for something WP:reliable. Have you visited WP:Helpdesk recently?— Preceding unsigned comment added by MinorProphet (talk • contribs) 18:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

I am aware it was changed, and I am aware the website cited which is NOT a family site is not a reliable source. DuncanHill (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Wow!! Richard Hough was Bruce Carter, who wrote Speed Six! "Once more unto the gates of hell, old friend, eh?" Best book about Bentleys and Le Mans ever. I shall sleep well tonight. MinorProphet (talk) 20:25, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

• I've found it! There was a notice in the Births column of the 7th December 1901 issue of The Queen, "ASHLEY - On the 28th ult., at 31, Bruton-street, Mrs Wilfrid Ashley, of a daughter." DuncanHill (talk) 01:56, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh, 31, no 32 - but they definitely lived at 32, there are numerous reports of that. Unlike The Queen to get something like that wrong. DuncanHill (talk) 02:31, 15 July 2021 (UTC)