Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 December 24

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December 24

Dynasty

Why are Chinese 朝 Chao translated as dynasties in historiography? Dynasties in Chinese history doesn't seem to say. Obviously dynasty means a line of rulers but so does House. And most often in Chinese history, the dynastic name is the name of the regime not the ruling family so the Han dynasty was ruled by the Liu clan or the House of Liu. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:29, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

At least in the UK, "house" can sometimes exclude a cadet branch of the same family. Consider James I of England, for example; like his predecessor Elizabeth I, he was a descendent of Henry (VII) Tudor, but a different branch, so he's considered the first English monarch of the House of Stuart. "Dynasty" does a better job of conveying the concept of a two groups of completely unrelated rulers, like the distinction between the Sung and Yuan dynasties. Finally, remember that this isn't necessarily a matter of translation — anglophone historians may have learned about the general situation and chosen to use "dynasty" to represent the concept, regardless of the standard meaning of the Chinese term. Nyttend (talk) 18:10, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Nyttend -- in English history, there's a basically a new "House" whenever the royal succession goes through a woman to one of her children or descendants. (By contrast, when royal succession merely goes to a woman, as from father to daughter, then that doesn't mean a new House.) So when Henry II the son of Matilda becomes king, that's the beginning of the house of Plantagenet, and so on... AnonMoos (talk) 02:02, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

That's what I was meaning. Your situation involves a change of house, but it's not really a change of dynasty, since the later rulers are descended from the earlier, and a ruler not descended from his predecessor is still related to him (or her) in some manner. The last real change of dynasty involved an arrow, not the marriage of an heiress to someone else. Nyttend (talk) 02:41, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

German translation

Hi Folks, Any idea what „Bund der Geistesschaffenden this would translate to as a kind of German intellectual society? Article is Red Orchestra (espionage). for de:Rote Kapelle. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 23:22, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Pretty much "Society of intellectuals". --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 15:28, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 23:08, 25 December 2018 (UTC)