Wikipedia:Peer review/Walter Model/archive1

Walter Model

I've listed this article for peer review because this article became a Featured Article back in 2007, when it was promoted by SandyGeorgia (talk). It was stricken after a review in 2015. I have rewritten the first couple of sections, and gone through the article and fixed up the most obvious issues (ie referencing). However, I think it probably needs more work beyond that. Pinging @DrKay, Hchc2009, and Nick-D:, who commented on the FAR, and @MisterBee1966 and Hongooi:, to see if we can generate a list of needed changes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:58, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I was not a FAC delegate until 2008 :) But I'll peek in here this week as I find time; if I forget, pls do not hesitate to re-ping me. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't on Wikipedia at all, hence no FACBot. Instead, the promotion work was done by the GimmeBot. I don't understand what triggered it; there is no mention of a coordinator. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Back then, Raul did all promotions, and closes before GimmeBot were just a template on talk. Then GimmeBot, Maralia and I worked an AH on every single FA in 2008. Then later in 2008, GimmeBot added in which person had promoted. But anything before early 2008 is Raul654. An article was officially an FA when Raul added it to WP:FA. That switched in 2008 to addition to the Featured log by a delegate or Raul, which triggered GimmeBot. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:57, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I've been retired now for a bit, User:Hawkeye7, so won't be able to assist you, @DrKay, MisterBee1966, Nick-D, and SandyGeorgia:. Hchc2009 (talk) 22:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment This is a complex topic, above my level of expertise. I will make an attempt to support. Cheers MisterBee1966 (talk) 05:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comments
  • In the lede, the term "hard-driving" is used to describe his tactical style. I would recommend either getting rid of it, as it's followed by aggressive, or finding a more appropriate term. This is the first example of a few terms that could, arguably, be considered peacock words in the article, or at the least are non-encyclopedic and imprecise terms. See also, "...a whirlwind of energy...,""...threw himself into the task with his usual energy," and others.

    I was concerned about this too. I will do a pass through the article removing these terms. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 16:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

  • In the last sentence, first paragraph of the Early Life section, it notes that he graduated Domgymnasium Naumburg on Easter 1909. Recommend adding the actual date vs. a religious holiday that shifts dates based on the year. Also recommend adjusting the red link to go directly to the German Wikipedia entry. In the second paragraph, recommend defining faehnrich, or linking to an appropriate article on the rank.
  • In the last paragraph of the WW1 section, "IIb" is in parenthesis. What does this mean?

    German staff section. Will think about this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 16:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

  • Under the Battle of the Bulge, the term "Class IV outfit" is used, it's unclear what this means.

    I think I will remove this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 16:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

  • Throughout the article, there are numerous links to the German language Wikipedia page, but many of these articles have equivalents on the English page. Recommend using the appropriate English links when available. There are also a number of links to pages that are non-specific, when pages on the specific event are available (for instance, the link to the Ruhr Uprising went to Communist uprising, when there is an article for the Ruhr Uprising specifically...I fixed this one but there are probably others).
  • The discussions of Model's role in the various Eastern Front battles goes, I think, into unnecessary detail of the battles themselves that should be left to the linked main articles. Just my opinion there, though.
  • Under the Limitations section of his Generalship, Zimmerman and Newton appear to disagree. The first paragraph states about how he was universally disliked and was a micromanager, but the second paragraph states he was a 'thorough and competent leader.' Perhaps 'leader' isn't the right word to use here, maybe strategist or tactician? It also goes from saying he wasn't liked for being abusive and foul mouthed, but then says he was liked for his crude speech. It just comes off as confusing to me.
  • Dates of Rank is missing his appointment as Faehnrich.
  • One note on the sourcing. A significant source of information for the article comes from Steven Newton's "Hitler's Commander." I don't have a copy, and I'm having trouble finding an academic book review for it, but the Publisher's Weekly review in the Amazon page notes that the objective of the book is specifically to rehabilitate Model's reputation. I'm not saying Newton isn't a reliable source (he actually appears to be, as he's apparently a university history professor) but it's worth considering when using his writings.

    The reason is that I have a copy of Newton. I will acquire one of the other biographies. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 16:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Hope this all helps! nf utvol (talk) 14:02, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@Nfutvol: Thanks for that! I was particularly concerned about the long sections at the end about "Generalship" and "Leadership". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 16:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

• Comment The lack of mentions of his attitudes to Nazism in the lead is fairly surprising - it's a topic that heavily weighs on modern discussions of Wehrmacht generals. The lack of mentions of any war crimes is even more surprising - not committing any war crimes would be an extraordinary feat for a Wehrmacht general. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:48, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Jo-Jo Eumerus: I will add something to the lead about his attitudes towards Nazism. Because he committed suicide in 1945, he was never tried for war crimes. I have obtained a copy of Stein's biography, and he devotes a couple of hundred pages to it. In Germany, the big issue is the executions of deserters in the last weeks of the war; in Russia it is the use of "scorched earth" tactics; but I think that English-speaking readers would be far more concerned not about war crimes, but about crimes against humanity. On this I can write about Model's cosy relationship with Einsatzgruppe B. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

  Seems like we should have plenty of mentions of war crimes, then, right? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

  Not as much as we would like, but enough to work with. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:44, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

  Currently I don't see a mention of the Einsatzgruppe. I would probably mention all these things somewhere; we have a section for his generalship and Nazi affiliations, his approach to war crimes and crimes against humanity should probably get one as well. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:49, 13 June 2023 (UTC)