Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international cricket five-wicket hauls by Sydney Barnes/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 00:08, 2 February 2013 [1].

List of international cricket five-wicket hauls by Sydney Barnes edit

List of international cricket five-wicket hauls by Sydney Barnes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): Harrias talk 18:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another cricket nomination to clog things up! This one is a bit further back in time than most of those coming through recently. Sydney Barnes is almost certainly the best "pace" bowler to have played Test cricket. He completed bamboozled Australian batsmen who otherwise dominated the English bowlers, and had he been a bit more courteous to the amateurs who ran the game, he would surely have played more Test cricket, and hold even more records. As it is, he took 24 five-wicket hauls in just 27 Test matches, and this list is long overdue. It's a while since I've nominated one of these lists, so there might be a few foibles, but as always, I invite all comments and advice. Harrias talk 18:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Zia Khan 22:43, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Image needs a suitable caption instead of his name.
  • "Barnes had only played seven ............................. suffering from burnout.[6]" → is totally unrelated to the list.
  • Similarly "At the start of his career, ........................ and being suitably paid.[6]" is less significant for a fifer's list
  • They are only marginally related to the list itself, but I think both sentences gives vital context to how remarkable his international figures are, given the small amount of first-class cricket he played. Harrias talk 07:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still not agree with you. You may include this in his biography. Zia Khan 22:41, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...it was in this match that his took his first..." → 1st "his" should be "he"
Changed as suggested. Harrias talk 07:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Barnes collected six wickets in the first innings, and seven wickets in the second innings" → no need of comma, I guess
  • ....collecting eight for 56 in the first innings and 9 for 103 in the second.[17] → nine?

Zia Khan 05:03, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Although the lead is very long, but well-written by Harrias. Zia Khan 22:43, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 14:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • I would split the first para and potentially the second one as well, as they are quite large
  • Split the first paragraph, I can't find a natural place to split the second one, and I think it flows better as one, though I can try and rework it if you feel it necessary. Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding the burnout details above, I see no issue with it, adds to the context of the list and helps the reader understand why he played so few matches
  • "He based his decision upon two main criteria – playing for first-class counties was less financially rewarding..." Is that right he wanted to play minor counties cricket because it was less financially rewarding? Sounds a bit odd in today's climate and when reading later on that he didn't play more for England because he didn't get paid enough
  • I meant it the opposite way around, he would have got less money in first-class cricket, so he played club cricket instead. I have rephrased this, is it clearer now? Harrias talk 07:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yep much clearer now. NapHit (talk) 13:37, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "seven occasions on which" should this be in which instead?
  • Hyphens in date ranges should be en dashes

NapHit (talk) 03:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from —Vensatry (Ping me) 07:12, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • He was simply irresistible."[15] -> Period should be the end of everything.
  • I have followed MOS:LQ, which states "On Wikipedia, place all punctuation marks inside the quotation marks if they are part of the quoted material and outside if they are not." Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Headingley, Leeds", "Lord's, London", why "Melbourne Cricket Ground" and "Sydney Cricket Ground"?
  • I can add them if you really feel it is necessary, but given that they are both based in the city mentioned, it seems redundant to list the city twice. Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • While sorting the table by date, entries for the same matches doesn't sort correctly. It would be good to extend the sortability to the No. column as well.
  • This should work now, courtesy of a handy little fix. Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

—Vensatry (Ping me) 05:38, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

  • In his last fifer (7 for 88), you've listed eight batsmen in the table. —Vensatry (Ping me) 05:41, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed, I'd forgotten to delete one when copying! Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Either link "Result" or add an explanation for "Drawn" matches in the key. A person who is not comfortable with cricket may not have an idea about drawn matches. —Vensatry (Ping me) 05:43, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have expanded the key, which hopefully solves this issue. Harrias talk 18:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:40, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "and only played 47" -> "and played only 47" would read better for me.
  • Our article on minor counties cricket capitalises it to "Minor Counties".
  • "being over-bowled " no way on earth a no-expert will get this.
  • I'm not sure why they wouldn't. It works in the same way as over-worked, over-paid and a number of other well understood phrases. I further clarify the meaning by stating "..and suffering from burnout." That said, if you still wish, I could change it to "..worried about being bowled too much in first-class county cricket..
  • Problem is "being bowled" works as a bowler and as a batsman, doesn't it?! The Rambling Man (talk) 08:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a good point. How about "..worried about having to bowl too much in first-class county cricket.." ? Harrias talk 15:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He is generally regarded" -> "Barnes is...
  • "and cutting the ball" jargon.
  • "Barnes did not play any Test cricket between July 1902 and December 1907, as he was considered a "prima donna"" so was it (a) his choice not to play or (b) he wasn't selected? The sentence suggests the second (unless you change "as" to "and") but your previous commentary suggests the first.
  • "match scorecards see [16][17][18][19]" would at least put a colon there, but this is clumsy. Why not just place the individual scorecards as in-line refs?

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:28, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support as picky as I could be, all comments addressed with a modicum of actual enjoyment! This is what FLC should be about. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:40, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support looked through it a couple of times and can see no glaring issues! Perhaps the mention of playing Minor Counties cricket could name the county he played for, but once again another fantastic list from Harrias! Howzat?Out!Out!Out! (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • "his average places him amongst the top-ten bowlers in Test cricket." "amongst" → "among"? There's also another similar usage later in the lead.
  • "After his recall to the England side, he played regularly until the outbreak of the First World War in 1914, as was named by the Wisden Cricketers' Almanack as one of their Cricketers of the Year in 1910." "as" → "and". Giants2008 (Talk) 00:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_international_cricket_five-wicket_hauls_by_Sydney_Barnes/archive1&oldid=1090670370"