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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of id Software games/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man via FACBot (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of id Software games edit

List of id Software games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): PresN 22:49, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

id Software burst onto the scene in 1991 as one of the most influential video game developers of the era: their first game, Commander Keen in Invasion of the Vorticons, showed side-scrolling games as viable on the PC, and they followed it up with essentially inventing the first-person shooter genre with Wolfenstein 3D in 1992, only to eclipse themselves the next year with Doom, which was so popular that for years shooter games were called "Doom clones". After another hit with Quake in 1996, they slowed down, focusing mostly on further games (though high-selling ones) in the Doom and Quake series ever since. id's a ways away from being the face of the industry and run by rock stars like they were in 1994, but they're still a big name in the industry, and developed quite a few games over the last 25+ years. I started this list from scratch a couple months ago after I did the list of games by their first publisher, and I think it's ready to go. Thanks for reviewing! --PresN 22:49, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Courcelles (talk) 21:44, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
*Not sure the first "id Software" should be in bold.
  • De-bolded
  • Citation for founders names and founding date.
  • the first citation is for both sentences
  • " GT Interactive.[3][4][5] GTI" Define the acronym formally if you're going to use it.
  • De-acronymed
  • "series by Raven Software in 1994—97" En, not em, dash.
  • Fixed
  • "variations on "It runs Doom" or "Can it run Doom?" are long-running phrases about the widespread porting of the game" Shouldn't Doom be in italics there?
  • Italicized
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 12:23, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Seems selective on references in the lead.
  • Added references to what was missing (it was stuff that was referenced in the table(s), but I see your point)
  • "1994–97" 1997.
  • Done
  • "The company's latest major release" probably needs an "as of".
  • Done
  • It seems wrong, unless of course you're defining your own "major", since "Doom VFR" appears to have been released after that.
  • Rather than debate over 'major', I've just changed it to 'latest release' and Doom VFR
  • I would also cover Quake Champions in the lead.
  • Done
  • MOS:DASH fails all over the ref titles, e.g. "Doom - PC" should be "Doom – PC"....
  • BeatlesLedTV fixed this.

The Rambling Man (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Responded to all of your concerns. --PresN 21:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:49, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from BeatlesLedTV
  • Thank you very much!
  • Based on your 3D Realms list, I think the lead for this could be longer. That's just my opinion. Definitely doesn't have to be as long as that list but I do think it seems a little short.
  • I've lengthened it a touch, but the 3D Realms list was so long because they had both more titles and also a much more complicated story- one guy self-publishing, then inventing a shareware style, then expanding into a company that developed and published, then transitioning to retail, then switching to just a publisher but with 2 long-running dev projects, then dropping publishing for licensing, then cancelling a famous game, then getting sold. Id, on the other hand, is just- founded, invented FPSs, made a few famous ones, continued to make FPS games.
  • I do agree with TRM I think more sentences in the lead should have references
    Actually, I meant that either the lead needs full citation or the facts need to be expanded and cited later on, so no need for any citations in the lead. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:18, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I've added citations to things that are more complicated than just counting rows in the table anyways.
  • Add "business manager" in front of Jay Wilbur
  • Done
  • IGN should not be in italics
  • In references? Actually, the consensus at WPVG (still unevenly applied) is that websites that have original content/writing should be italicized- the line between websites like IGN and "digital magazines" is a blurry one at best. The latest of several conversations about that is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 135#Odd question from only a couple weeks ago.
  • Pretty sure "Quake II Netpack I: Extremities" should be in italics
  • Actually no, as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines#Name formatting: "For DLC that mostly adds new content (characters, maps, weapons, vehicles, gameplay modes) but little new narrative, the DLC name should follow standard English capitalization rules but otherwise left unformatted." Netpack 1 was a collection of mods/maps, but did not have a story (large or small), so it's left unitalicized
  • As per above, it can get hazy, but I've followed the guidelines I linked- expansions/DLC with a "significant add-on story, often handled separately from the main game's story and not integrated into it" are italicized (like a novel or stand-alone novella), DLC that "may add additional narrative along with additional content to the main game, integrating that story alongside the existing narrative" are in quotes (like a short story inside a larger work), and DLC that just adds weapons or maps (like the Anarchy Edition pack) just get capitals. It's not an exact science, but I'm fairly confident in the formatting I've used.
  • Done

That's all I got. Great job on this! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 00:01, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@BeatlesLedTV: responded to all of your comments. --PresN 21:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Alright everything looks good to me. Great job on this! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:49, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Comments by The1337gamer

I've glossed over the list and it looks solid. I will take a more thorough look this weekend if I have some free time. Might write some more comments.

  • Should Master Levels for Doom II by italicised in the Doom II notes as it is the name of an expansion?
  • I guess; as per the above it's a little awkward since it's not really a new plotline, but Doom II itself doesn't really have a plot either... I guess it's more than a set up unconnected levels, and not intended to be extra levels before/during/after Doom II itself, so... italicized.
  • Should Final Doom be mentioned in the Doom II notes?
  • Yes, that was an ommission. Added
  • Rage had a third DLC pack called The Scorchers.
  • Added
  • Doom 3: BFG Edition was released for Android (Nvidia Shield exclusive) in 2015. [2]

--The1337gamer (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Added
@The1337gamer: Responded to all comments, thanks! --PresN 20:08, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They also released Quake: The Offering and Quake II: Quad Damage, which were the mission packs bundled with the main game. Might be worth adding these in if you can find reliable sources on them. Regardless though, this list is good and I'm happy to support its nomination for FL. --The1337gamer (talk) 20:40, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Found sources, added. --PresN 18:24, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The1337gamer have your concerns beend addressed? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ye. --The1337gamer (talk) 17:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by Ritchie333

Crikey, this takes me back to long-forgotten days of playing network deathmatch Doom and Quake with friends. Looks like a fine list to me, given the comments so far, so just a few questions:

  • Should Doom not give a brief mention to the WAD culture, which (IIRC) was groundbreaking at the time, to have a game that was so customisation
  • The game's article should definitely do that as it was a big part of the game's legacy, but this list is focused on the official/semi-official releases by the company in question (id); the modding scene is outside the scope of the list or else all of these lists would have to go into detail about the legacy of every game in them.
  • Doom was ported to Linux by 1994, I remember playing it on kernel 1.1.59
  • It was, however, that was an unofficial port by a fan that id unofficially supported until/after id released the source code because Carmack/Romero were cool with that. id never actually published a commercial Linux version like they did a Mac version, so it's not listed in the same way that there's like 20 other unofficial ports (that Carmack/id devs personally helped out with at least somewhat) but id itself never publishing anything for that aren't listed
  • I'm pretty sure I was playing Quake on Linux no later than 1997; I seem to remember getting a Python script to patch a file in pak0.pak so it would run. I think 1999 was when the source code generally was released. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 18:56, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same as above, with a twist- there was an unofficial version made for Linux that id was unofficially fine with, but unlike Doom id released an official Linux version in 1999 to correspond with the Linux ports of Quake II and Quake III at the same time
Ritchie333 replied inline. --PresN 20:08, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think the unofficial ports would be useful as a footnote - otherwise other people like me might look at them and think "that's wrong!" Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:11, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ritchie333 are you content with the responses? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I think so, but I'd still like to see the footnote about the Linux ports I mentioned, because as I recall (which is not a reliable source, of course!) the Linux ports of Doom and Quake were major news in the community at the time. There was a Linux book (sorry, can't remember the title and my google-fu on WorldCat is not up to snuff today) by Que Publishing c. 1994 which included the Doom port as a stock package on its CD and made a big song-and-dance about it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Ritchie333: footnotes added! Both ports were done by Dave Taylor, who was a programmer at id during Doom/Doom II/Quake. --PresN 16:42, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In which case, it's Support from me Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: That's a support from everyone, then. --PresN 16:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PresN I'll trade it for my Habana list...! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Haha, roger that, I'll do an FLC pass this afternoon and make sure to hit that one. --PresN 17:48, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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