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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of NFL tied games/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 10:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of NFL tied games

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List of NFL tied games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Toa Nidhiki05 02:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it is an interesting topic that gives the reader a solid overview of not only the current rarity of tie games in the NFL, but the overall history of ties in the NFL. This article features two tables - one showing the number of ties each season from 1920-1973, and another detailing the tie games since then. Ties were once very common in the NFL (256 from 1920-1973, or about five a season), but this was mainly because overtime for regular-season games was not established until 1974. Since then, there have only been 18 ties, and there have only been six since 1989. Ties are so uncommon that many players were unaware that they could happen, and they are almost always due to all-around poor play from both teams. Toa Nidhiki05 02:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Astros4477
Comments –
  • Column heading "Ref." – replace with "Ref(s)", since some have more than one.
  • You're missing a comma after March 28 in ref # 3.
  • Make sure all tables have scope rows. It looks like only the "Tied games (1974-present)" section does.
  • "Season" as well as the "Refs" should be centered.
  • "Note(s)" shouldn't sort.
  • Make sure your consistent in what your calling a team. In most of the article, your saying "team" while in the "Total ties per club (1974-present)" the section and column refer to them as "Club".
  • "Due to the rarity of tie games, some players who have been involved in them , such as former Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, have recounted that they did not even know NFL games could end in ties." This sentence sounds kind of funny, maybe you can reword it? Also, there should be no space after "them".

-- Astros4477 (Talk) 19:52, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed all of the concerns except for the 'club' issue; strictly speaking, a club (or franchise) and team are not the same thing. For NFL purposes, the two are different - the league rulebook refers to 'teams', as those are the players participating in a game, while the league bylaws refer to 'club's, which are the organization. The word 'club' is therefore used on this page to refer to the organizations involved, because the teams are not static, while 'team' is used to refer to the group of people that play games. Toa Nidhiki05 20:31, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The "Notes" column still sorts and the refs in the "Ref(s)" column should be centered. There's also no period at the end of "Ref(s)".-- Astros4477 (Talk) 22:40, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Those should be fixed now. Toa Nidhiki05 23:49, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

I believe I've fixed the first and third issues. As to the second, it is a sister site of RealClearPolitics, a well-regarded and reliable polling firm. Additionally, the cited claim is extremely minor - it is common knowledge that Gus Ferrote was injured while headbutting a wall, the citation merely links it to the tied game. Toa Nidhiki05 14:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:22, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on lack of completeness amongst other things...
  • Perhaps introduce the fact we're talking about American football in the lead.
  • "tied games occur when a regular season game has" -> games ... game.. yuck, maybe "a tied game occurs when ... both teams... equal score .... in regular season."
  • No images at all?
  • Is it "Tie games" or "Tied games"? You use both.
  • " since 1989" perhaps "since the 1989 season" appropriately linked (etc).
  • Instead of soccer, say "association football".
  • "They have been described as the least wanted result that a football game could produce, but a deserved outcome for the participating teams due to the poor play they exhibited" I find this whole sentence really awkward. "least wanted" and "due to the poor play they exhibited" are really awful phrases!
  • "finished the season 8–7–1" what does that mean to a non-expert?
  • " field goal tries" do you mean "field goal attempts"?
  • "Total ties per club (1974 to present)" not sure this is relevant. You could add these to the main table I suppose with (1), (2) etc for the number of times they've tied....
  • "Huffington Post" is The Huffington Post.
  • Ref 10 needs an en-dash.

The Rambling Man (talk) 17:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My responses to the issues
  • I've added American football.
  • I've modified it a bit. Does it work now?
  • I honestly can't think of an image to include... Ties are a team occurrence, not due to any one player, and there aren't that many free images out there of tie games since they aren't very common.
  • I was trying to vary the terms up a bit to be less repetitive. Do I need to stick with just one?
  • Although the topic is in American English, I've added the term - 'soccer' is retained in parenthesis since many Americans are unfamiliar with the term 'association football'.
  • I've shortened it to 'ties are the least desired outcome a football game can produce'.
  • To any American, the term 8-7-1 would mean '8 wins, 7 losses, 1 tie'; I forgot the term would mean '8 wins, 7 ties, 1 loss' elsewhere, so I've updated the upper-alpha note to note that.
  • Fixed to address that.
  • I've removed it since it is not too important.
  • Fixed.
  • Added. Toa Nidhiki05 18:36, 15 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]


  • I understand if we listed all the tied games pre-1974 we'd have a huge list, but I don't really see a justification for not doing it.... Without those ties, this list appears to be incomplete to me. Perhaps you need two articles?
    • I have no issue making another article for pre-1974 ties; part of the reason I didn't was I was not sure if it would be notable, since ties were a standard result back then. I'd be perfectly fine working on an article about that, but could the FL status of this nomination be retained under a rename? I have a basic template of a pre-1974 ties page here.

Note this nomination appears to have stalled. Suggest the nominator contacts relevant projects or editors who may be interested in reviewing this for FLC, or else we should archive the nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Although I can see an argument for including all of the pre-1974 ties in the list, the argument against including them is stronger, in my opinion. The whole point of this list is that a tie is an unusual occurrence in the NFL nowadays – this was not the case prior to 1974. Therefore, to limit the main list to the post-1974 ties makes perfect sense to me, and there is even a list of pre-1974 seasons with the number of ties included for interest value. Other than this, the list meets all of the other FL criteria and should pass this nomination. – PeeJay 20:45, 5 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: I don't know a thing about football, but I have a couple comments.

  • please add line breaks between citations (some cells in the second table have more than one); also, center the column since the Ref column in the above table is centered
    • Done.
  • is there no image that could be incorporated into the article? no game stats sign displaying the same score? (not a big deal, just curious)
    • While such images do exist (see here), I can't find one that is free use.

I would support the promotion of this list as long as all other reviewers' comments are addressed. (Disclaimer: I did not complete any source- or fact-checking; I looked for style and consistency.) --Another Believer (Talk) 03:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • Given that references ten and eleven are used as the primary references for the two tables, I would suggest removing the "Ref" columns and placing the primary reference in a "General references" section or similar. The references for the notes can be easily placed at the end of the note. This is only a personal preference though.
  • I would remove the bolding of "tied games".
  • Support I have no concerns with the way the list is split to only give details of the recent ties; the reasoning seems sound, and it would be an unnecessarily long and confusing list otherwise. My above comments are minor enough that I am happy to support irrespective of any changes made. Harrias talk 10:44, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from --K.Annoyomous (talk) 21:41, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from --K.Annoyomous (talk)
  • Note: I haven't reviewed anything in two years, so bare with me.
  • So there was a "rule change in 1974 that extended the existing sudden-death overtime for post-season games into the regular season", but when did that rule stop? In the first paragraph, it explains that overtimes are only 15 minutes.
    • Not sure what you mean here. The basic principle of the OT system has stayed the same since it was implemented, the only difference now is a field goal doesn't win it.
  • In regards to the pre-1974 list, I'd say keep it as it is. I'd suggest you have the show and hide function for that list.
  • For the table, it would be nice if there are indications of the number of times a team has tied a game; an example of this can be shown in NBA MVP.

Currently, it's an Oppose. --K.Annoyomous (talk) 16:02, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Mention something about the NFL being the APFA for two years.
    • Done. Toa Nidhiki05 16:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Have this as a separate sentence instead. I would suggest, "The league was known as the American Professional Football Association (APFA) for its first two seasons." or maybe even include that they were the American Professional Football Conference during its founding, if you want. If you include a year(s), make sure to wikilink them to a respective season.
  • "since 1989 season" --> "since the 1989 season".
  • Don't add this into the article, but I just thought it was cool how the last six ties happened in the month of November. :D
    • That was actually reported by one of the sources as one of the oddities of NFL ties, but I didn't include it because it doesn't have much to do with the topic itself. :) Toa Nidhiki05 00:34, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

--K.Annoyomous (talk) 21:41, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been successful, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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