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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 21:10, 31 May 2015 [1].

Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year edit

Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Harrias talk 12:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is modelled from PCA Player of the Year, which looks like it will be an FL soon. The most noticeable difference is that this list includes international appearances of the award winners in the list. This is a statistic often mentioned alongside this prize, and reflects amongst others, the presentation given in Wisden, so I think the inclusion of the appearances is justified, though it does mean I will have to put more work in to keep the list up to date! As I mentioned, I have an FLC open at the moment, but it has received significant support and has no outstanding concerns. As always, all critique will be welcomed. Harrias talk 12:07, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Seattle (talk) 17:46, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • All images need personality rights templates at the Commons
  • File:Nasser Hussain.JPG: Needs an information template at the Commons
    • Added a template, can you confirm I have done so appropriately? Harrias talk 10:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "14 [b]" excessive space in note
  • Note that Wisden Cricketers of the Year... you could cut "Note that" here and be no worse off, see Wikipedia:It should be noted
    • Cut, always good to remove redundancy. Harrias talk 10:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • This list seems like good case where ! scope="row" tags could be used in the "Player" column
  • All player profile URLs link to one non-ESPN page
    • No idea what I managed to do with the template there, it worked for me before. Still, should be fine now? Harrias talk 10:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are these statistics for the rookie season or overall? If overall, why overall and not just the first seasons for which this award was presented?
    • Overall; this is the statistic generally presented with this list in other sources. I think it is basically because the CWC consider the list a good indicator for whether a young player will go on to have a successful international career. I've been trying to find a good reliable source to present this in the article. Harrias talk 10:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you state what "Tests", "ODIs", and "T20Is" mean in the key?
    • Added, and clarified above point there. Harrias talk 10:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year is an annual cricket award. It is presented to the young player who is adjudged to have been the best of the year in English county cricket. I think you could merge these sentences and cut the "it". Can you link "county cricket" somewhere?
  • Archie Ledbrooke, a sports reporter for the Daily Mirror and the first treasurer of the Cricket Writers' Club, came up with the idea for the award, which was first presented in 1950, when Roy Tattersall of Lancashire was the recipient. I'm not sure of the focus of this sentence– is it Ledbroke's idea, or the first recipient? This is a comma splice.
    • Split into two sentences, which hopefully makes more sense. Harrias talk 10:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In recent years, the winner has often this is vague, can you be more specific? Since which year and how often?
    • Clarified; the PCA have only recently published their list, so I couldn't be specific before! Harrias talk 10:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Semi-colons should not be used as headers per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Headings. Seattle (talk) 00:47, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Seattle: Thanks for your comments. Some stupid misses from me, and some interesting MOS points that I'd seen alluded to without ever finding the actual guideline, thanks! Harrias talk 10:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments from ChrisTheDude
    • In the key, to the left of the yellow box, I can see some small text that says "see tfm" - is that meant to be there?
      • It's because the template is nominated for a merge at the moment. Don't think there is anything I can do about it until that's done, one way or the other. Harrias talk 16:49, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • The rows for current players look a little odd with all the cells yellow except for the player's name. I realise this is something to do with row scopes, but is it possible to use the colour in any other way, such that we don't wind up with one odd non-coloured cell on an otherwise all coloured row? Just a thought
      • @ChrisTheDude: Based on Seattle's note above as well, I've tweaked this, how do you find it now? Harrias talk 09:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Other than that it all looks good -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:36, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from Miyagawa
  • Before I give the full run-down, what is the bracketed information in the international appearances columns (this is just my lack of cricket knowledge I'm afraid)? I ask, because right now the sorting on those columns are making anything with a bracket sort lower than those without - so for instance when sorting by Tests, Ian Bell is above Geoff Boycott. Depending on what those brackets signify, this may need need to have some sort templates inserted to make it appear the other way around. Miyagawa (talk) 17:02, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Weird, for me the sort gives no preference to either, so whichever was listed first before is listed first after. To be honest, it makes little difference; as noted in the key, that denotes the number of times the player captained England - so the 4 times Boycott did so is contained within his 108 appearances. So they both made 108 appearances, with neither necessarily deserving to be forced to sort higher in my opinion. Harrias talk 18:06, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ah, I see. Just from personal preference I would sort them so that where there are equal numbers, the bracketed ones appear higher. There should only be a couple of instances of that (easiest way to do it is to use the sort template have add a .1 to the ones with brackets so that they get sorted as 141.1 instead of 141, for example). Otherwise it just looks odd from a presentation standpoint. Miyagawa (talk) 10:19, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Miyagawa: How's that? Harrias talk 10:26, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yep, that's better. The only other comment I would have leads out of this - it might be a good idea to explain what the brackets are in the key. Miyagawa (talk) 12:47, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • @Miyagawa: The key already states Number in parentheses indicates number of international appearances as captain. Harrias talk 13:37, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
              • Sorry, missed that! In that case, I Support promotion. Miyagawa (talk) 16:49, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from —Vensatry (ping)
Comments from —Vensatry (ping)
  • Alt text needed for images
  • "Mark Ramprakash won the award in 1991, and one of three winners of the award to have scored 100 centuries in first-class cricket." Who are the other two?
    • Off the top of my head, Boycott and Cowdrey, but they aren't really relevant for Ramprakash's caption? Harrias talk 07:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's what I was indirectly pointing out. Scoring 100 centuries in first-class cricket isn't really relevant to his list, no? —Vensatry (ping) 11:55, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not really, but it seemed a more interesting thing to put, but I've cut it out now. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Geoff Boycott->Geoffrey Boycott. He being a recipient of the Wisden Cricketer of the Year is not noted in the table.
  • "On ten occasions, the Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year has also been named one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Year for that season" Per above update this
    • For both these points, Boycott won the CWCYCotY in 1963, and was a Wisden Cricketer in 1965, so the years don't equate. As noted as a) "Wisden Cricketers of the Year are awarded for the previous year. For the purposes of this list, being named Cricket Writers' Club Young Cricketer of the Year in 1950 is equivalent to being named a Wisden Cricketer of the Year in 1951." Harrias talk 07:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ah, I missed this point. Can't you rename "Other awards that year" as "Other awards that season" and do the adjustments, so that it will clear up the confusion. That said, has this award got any relevance to Wisden Cricketers of the Year? —Vensatry (ping) 11:55, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Given that all the awards are in the format "XXX of the Year" I think year works better than season. Both awards are rewarding players for their performance in English cricket during the season, and given ten players won the two in the same year, I think there is a clear connection. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
          • The players are awarded for their performances in the previous year or season? You say "The award has been presented since the 1950 season" in the lede, but mention year in the table. I think a description of "year" should be included in the key. Also, Wisden awards cricketers based on their performances in the previous season and not year as the article says. —Vensatry (ping) 18:32, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
            • @Vensatry: You make a good argument! I've now changed it a bit to reflect your comments, how do you find it now? Harrias talk 07:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Cricinfo links (to player profiles) are not working. I think you need to do some adjustments here: Template:ESPNcricinfo player entry
  • I know the facts in second para are verifiable in the table. But we need some sources to back up the prose part. It shouldn't be tough to find.
    • The first part of the paragraph is all sourced to ref 3, as noted inline, while the end of it is mostly sourced to the general reference given at the bottom, and indeed to the table. It is common for the lead in a FL not to include references if it is only replicating information from the table. Harrias talk 07:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's fine, but is the fact that we have 18 counties verified in the table? —Vensatry (ping) 11:55, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • Good point, I've added a reference to support that. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

—Vensatry (ping) 08:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Vensatry: Thanks for your comments, I've responded to each above. Harrias talk 07:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vensatry: Tweaked things a bit more. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:46, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Image captions which are complete sentences need a full stop.
  • "a joint award was made, the award" might be a struggle but try to avoid repeating "award" so rapidly.
    • Changed the second to accolade, which I think works. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you probably need an "As of 2015..." in there somewhere for the latter stage of the lead.
  • Is it worth noting how many didn't go on to represent England in any shape?
  • Is Paul Franks really not still active? His article says he plays for Nottinghamshire...
    • He hasn't played since 2013. I'll update his article to reflect that shortly. I suspect Flintoff isn't going to play, but I'll wait for official confirmation (or him to not play a game all season) before changing this. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise good stuff. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: As always, thanks for your comments, I think I've dealt with each of them. Harrias talk 14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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