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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Minute Man/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 20 June 2020 [1].

The Minute Man edit

Nominator(s): Guerillero | Parlez Moi 01:53, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I bring an article about a statue to your attention to be reviewed. In January when the Lexington–Concord Sesquicentennial half dollar had its day on the front page, I noticed that the statue on the obverse of the coin had no article. Over the past 5 months, I have dug into the literature and have moved the article from a DYK, to a GA, and now here. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 01:53, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SG review edit

  • The statue was unveiled in 1875 for the centennial of the battle of Battle of Concord.
  • Since then the statue has been a Suffragette symbol and a symbol of the United States National Guard and Air National Guard. It has also been used on coins such as the Lexington–Concord Sesquicentennial half dollar and the Massachusetts state quarter.
  • Since when? How about just ...
  • The statue has been a Suffragette symbol, a symbol of the United States National Guard and Air National Guard, and has been used on coins such as the Lexington–Concord Sesquicentennial half dollar and the Massachusetts state quarter.
  • It received critical acclaim and continues to be praised by commentators.
  • This feels like a vague catch-all ... is there any way to tighten it up?
  • noticed that the pose is very similar to the pose of the
  • Very similar = similar: redundant?

I see Ceoil is still ceing, so I'll pop in after he is done for more. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:10, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing
  • because he was a local and had family connections.
  • Had family connections to what or whom? The battle? The committee?
  • The pose of The Minute Man was made more natural in the enlargement process by working with models.
  • passive voice ... in fact a lot of passive voice in that paragraph ...
  • In the audience during the unveiling were dignitaries such as Ulysses S. Grant and Ralph Waldo Emerson.
  • Reverse? Dignitaries were ... in the audience ?
  • The movement of the new statue was made more fluid and natural.
  • Passive voice again ... French did this, right? It's not clear why passive voice is used.

That's all I've got. Ceoil is a more competent writer than I am, so I defer to him on all aspects and will wait to hear from others on comprehensiveness. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS, just curious, why is an American article using dmy rather than mdy dates? Do you want me to run a script to switch? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:55, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have been a fan of dmy, but I wouldn't object to it being moved to mdy --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 03:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning support, pending resolution of additional source from Wehwalt; please ping me if I forget to weigh in once Wehwalt is satisfied. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • "It was created between 1871 and 1874" - body suggests that the 1871 version was related but not the sculpture under discussion, so on that basis I'd suggest not making this claim
  • FNs 25 and 26 should use |pp=
  • The Concord Saunterer is stated to be a journal of Thoreau scholarship; can you elaborate on why it was chosen to be cited here? Seems a bit odd. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Nikkimaria: The article came up in my JSTOR search and the reported story about the appropriation of the statue was interesting to me. Several people who intersect with French, including Ralph Waldo Emerson and Louisa May Alcott, were friends of Thoreau and are considered Transcendentalists or closely related. While he had died by the time the statue was created, this connection and the fact that the events happened in Thoreau's hometown of Concord makes the journal fit. The story isn't unprecedented in the sources; Holzer 2019 mentions the scuffle during the unveiling that lead to the appropriation. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 00:07, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ceoil edit

Placeholder. Have read about half, and made trivial edits. Impressions are good...well written, short but to the point. Ceoil (talk) 13:17, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All sources are first rank and high quality; impressively are all from dead trees. Ceoil (talk) 18:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support. On prose and quality of sources. Any quibbles i had were fixed directly. Nice work. Ceoil (talk) 22:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wehwalt edit

I can hardly not review this, given your numismatic introduction.

  • "only considered Daniel Chester French for The Minute Man because he was a local" I would simply say he was from Concord.
  • " Several architects submitted designs to the town, including French's brother, but the design was won by James Elliot Cabot.[19][20" I would say "competition" rather than "design".
  • "On the front, it is inscribed with the third and fourth verse of Ralph Waldo Emerson's Concord Hymn.[21]" It's the whole first stanza isn't it?
    • This is what the sources say

      "The statue's includes an inscription of Emerson's 1837 poem "Concord Hymn" with the famous lines "Here once the embattled farmers stood, And fired the shot heard round the the world" (3-4)." Richardson 2015

      "The pedestal inscribed with the tag from Emerson's "Concord Hymn" thus memorializes these "embattled farmers" confronted and oppressed by an unwelcome presence from the start: "By the rude bridge that arched the flood,/Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,/Here once the embattled farmers stood,/And fired the shot heard round the world." Kowalski 2007

      "As a finishing touch, artisans "chiseled and lettered" the pedestal's front panned with the stirring first stanza of Emerson's beloved July 4, 1837, poem, "Concord Hymn": "By the rude bridge that arched the flood,/Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,/Here once the embattled farmers stood,/And fired the shot heard round the world." Holzer 2019

      I will change it to the first stanza. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Apparently, the statue is meant to represent Isaac Davis (soldier)? Our article on him goes into some detail on this and the use of Davis's descendants and plow as models but I see no mention here.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:29, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The claim that Davis was the model did not appear at all in my research. The sources I have claim that he worked with unidentified models in Boston or himself for the statue. It appears that the claim comes from a rare 1945 pamphlet (that we would consider self-published today). I have searched, and there are no digital copies. I guess I could go down to the Library of Congress (the closet loction to me with a copy) when COVID-19 clears up, but if it were true I would expect one of the books or journal articles to mention it. --In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 03:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • LoC's copy is tagged as missing. The closet copies are in Princeton and NYC. Unless someone can get me prints from the New York Public Library's microfilm version or a library is crazy enough to ILL it, I think the book is unobtainable. I find it hard to believe that the article's author had access to such a rare book. All but 1 copy (of 14) is east of the Mississippi River according to worldcat. There is what claims to be a reprint on Amazon, but it has a new copyright date, an additional author, and is published by a weird press in Montana which has an unhelpful website. --In actu (Guerillero) Parlez Moi 04:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      Fair enough. This source goes through how the statue came to be in some detail and does not mention Davis as the inspiration.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      There is a report from the Secretary of the Interior in 1959 that discusses the history of the Concord monuments if you are interested (I got it from Congressional Pro-Quest) you can send me an email.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      Emailed --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:13, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      The source was helpful with some dates and names. Thank you, Wehwalt --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 21:16, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A few more things on second look.

  • "Battle of Concord" is not linked on first usage.
  • It might be helpful in the history section to have a few words explaining the battle. British sought to prevent Americans from crossing the bridge, Americans fired, First American victory, possibly a mention of Lexington a few hours earlier.
  • Do we have an explanation as to why the sculpture is bronze while the cannons were brass? I realize they are basically the same thing.
  • How solid is the source that says that the cannons were donated because the Town of Concord lacked money? There's no mention of it in the resolution or in the (very brief) congressional debates) and they authorized a lot of money to be spent on the centennial celebration, judging by this. Copper prices in 1874 seemed to be about $500 a ton, and given what Concord spent on the centennial, I suspect they could have afforded the cost of metal.
    • It appeared in several sources. I can give you the quotes if you would like --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 04:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The image in that source may be of the model and is certainly the best rendering showing such things as the minuteman's facial expression. Regrettably it is perforated but possibly you can find it elsewhere. Also, there is some useful background in there.
  • "The statue is 7 feet (2.1 meters) tall and depicts a minuteman at the Battle of Concord." He is not at the battle, he is on his field (thus his plow) and is about to go to the militia assembly that preceded the battle.
  • "and stepping forward toward the impending battle.[5]" Similar point.
  • You might explain how the minutemen got their name. The subject of the statue is, after all, leaving his plow at a moment's notice to go assemble for battle.
    • I will put together an expanded background section. I find it hard to balance our summary style with wiki links with the need to provide information --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 17:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think that would be helpful. I suspect that Lexington and Concord are less learned about than they used to be.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Looks OK. I might mention Paul Revere. Also why the colonials sought to cross the Old North Bridge.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:06, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Steve Maas of The Boston Globe suggests that French avoided the celebration in case the statue was panned by contemporary critics.[4]" colorful, but you're using a recent bio of French. What does that say?
  • In your description of the 1836 ceremony, I would mention that Emerson was part of it, as he recited or sang "Concord Hymn", which was, I believe, composed for that purpose. I would nail down for the reader that fact and a mention of the first stanza, especially "fired the shot" etc.
  • "The Minute Man has been depicted on United States coins since it debuted. It appears on the obverse of the Lexington–Concord Sesquicentennial half dollar which was minted in 1925.[34] The statue also appears on the reverse of the 2000 Massachusetts state quarter next to an outline of the state.[35]" The first sentence of this passage seems a bit off. It appeared on coins 51 and 126 years after its debut.
    • Switched to The Minute Man has been depicted on United States coins twice. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 17:56, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hopefully that's everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks good.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:00, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note edit

Hi Guerillero, I gather this would be your first FA if successful, so I'd like to see a spotcheck of sources for accurate use and avoidance of plagiarism or close paraphrasing. Any of the above reviewers can volunteer for this, or you can place a request at the top of WT:FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wish I could help, but they are all hard print sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:05, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have most of the articles, Gross 2011 and Ganz, and can access the newspapers; the question is, have I got a conflict of interest at the moment? ——Serial # 18:25, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
IF you think you might, declare it for the Coords and let them decide :) Methinks you can be trusted to check sources :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:11, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. Serial if you can do a source review that would be great. Ceoil (talk) 21:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I must be slow on the uptake because I don't know why they'd be a COI -- of course with SN anything is possible... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:07, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a kind of Schrödinger's cat COI  :) ——Serial # 11:39, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would be happy to have you do spotchecks, SN --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 22:59, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review (pass) edit

Formatting
  • I've never quite understood why some things (usually websites, newspapers I think) omit the sfn-citation style when that's otherwise prominent, but that's not an opposable concern: too many other seasoned FACkers do it for me to complain! Yet, it always seems a shame to spoil the clean lines of the "Citation" list for no reason.
  • Zarzeczny's entry should show the chapter's page range.
  • Earwig's copyvio detector raises no concerns ([2]): the similarities are all nouns, titles or quotes (with the minor exception that I'd suggest making "in case the statue was panned" into a direct quote).
Source review
Reference # Article claim Source Found on source page Notes Pass/needs attention
2 Gross 2011, p. 58 Powder Alarm, Sept 74, Minute men name Powder Alarm, Sept 74, Minute men name None
4 Gross 2011, p. 69 "drilling two and a half days a week" "One shilling, eight pence for their time drilling three times a week" Slight anomaly with the drilling time?
5 Gross 2011, p. 68 "emergency stockpiling…had fixed on Concord as the principle arsenal" "designated Concord as the stockpile for patriot cannons, gunpowder, and ammunition" Doesn't actually mention "Patriot cannons", but that can probably be intimated by context
7 Gross 2011, p. 112 "the spies report...Dartmouth...demanded action" "reports from spies and instructions from…Dartmouth, Gage ordered a preemptive strike on Lexington and Concord" Mostly OK, but can't see a mention of Lexington in a specific instruction, only "what neither side expected was the explosive combination of events", etc.
10 Gross 2011, p. 117 "Based on alerts from Prescott and reports from Lexington, 150 minutemen from Concord and Lincoln mustered on the Concord Common under the command of James Barrett." "alerts from Prescott...reports from Lexington, 150 minutemen from Concord and Lincoln mustered...Common under the command of James Barrett." Everything cited, but at this point I discovered that my hardcopy is slightly out of sync with the kindle edition used by the nominator! As such, this information is all contained in the source, but spread over a three-page range. Can the nom either confirm the material is all on one page or adjust it to a range? In any case, a couple of pages may always vary between editions, and that's insufficient to violate WP:V.
13 Gross 2011, p. 122 f. "cannon, musket balls, and flour...rendered unusable...gunpowder was removed before it could be seized" "Regulars thæw 500 pounds of musket balls into the millpond, broke open sixty barrels of flour, knocked the trunions off...cannon ", and the gunpowder is on a guy's back None
16 Gross 2011, p. 126 "minutemen who participated in the Battle of Concord went home after the British retreated from the bridge" "the British...panicked and ran...the militiamen dispersed" None
22a Holzer 2019, p. 41 "To the dislike of Emerson, the obelisk stands on the bank of the river where the British stood during battle" "Ralph Waldo Emerson, often complained, the hallowed site had been marked only by an obelisk situated 'on the ground on which the enemy stood'" I've got the Kindle edition of this too, but with no page numbers. This is the first page of Ch.2, so should easily be verified. Incidentally, if you have a way of creating page numbers for kindle, etc., editions, I'd love to hear it!
22a Holzer 2019, p. 41 "Unlike the earlier monument, it was to be placed on the bank where the Massachusetts militia stood" "to erect a proper statue 'on the identical ground occupied by our minutemen and militia,'...and employed Daniel French to prepare a statue to be erected on the specified spot" None
24a Maas 2015 "The statue was French's first full-size work; previously French had produced a bust of his father and one additional statue" "'the guy had never done a [full-length] statue'...His previous work had included a bust of his father, Judge Henry Flagg French, and nature-inspired sculpture" None
26 Holzer 2019, p. 44 "French researched The Minute Man by studying powder horns and buttons from the era" "Keen on accuracy, twenty-one-year-old French purchased a genuine antique musket and borrowed an authentic eighteenth-century powder horn, copying both props faithfully"/"Neighbor Jacob Green lent...coat adorned with coin-size pewter buttons" None
27 Richman 1972, pp. 99–100 "In 1873, his second clay model of the statue was accepted by the statue committee" See note. My reading is that this refers to the first model? And by the time the cttee saw it, hasn't it been cast in plaster? There is a second, lifesize, covered on p.101 and following; apologies if I've missed something.
29 Richman 1972, p. 101 "The pose of The Minute Man was made more natural in the enlargement process by working with models. By September 1874, the statue was completed and a plaster version of the clay statue was sent to Ames Manufacturing Works in Chicopee" "Judd stood for me...the full-sized plaster was completed and it was then transferred from Boston to the Ames Foundry in Chicopee None
32 Eaton 2019 "The statue was unveiled on April 19, 1875 during the centennial celebration of the battle of Battle of Concord, in a ceremony attended by Ulysses S. Grant and Ralph Waldo Emerson" "The Minute Man monument...dedicated on April 19, 1875, the 100th anniversary...speeches by Emerson and other dignitaries. Sitting in the audience was President Ulysses S. Grant." Can't see what n.33 brings to the table? (I can't access it, but Eaton seems to cover the essentials.)
35 Kowalski 2007 "The reworked statue cleaned up some imperfections in the face of the original statue and incorporated elements of Beaux-Arts. French made the movement of the new statue more fluid and natural" "French endowed the smaller version with much smoother, more assured movement" The reference to beaux-arts (note lower-case and italicised) is on p.49. Fluid and natural is fine, there's nothing specifically stating that there had been "imperfections in the face of the original statue" that needed cleaning. If it's on another page, could this be checked, otherwise reworded.
37b Richman 1972, p. 43 "A powder horn, mistakenly, sits on the man's back instead of on his hip where it can be used" Richman 1972's page range is 96-115.
38a Bergeron 2013 "His face is alert while his eyes are transfixed on the battle that he is ready to march into" "His hat tilted at a jaunty angle, the Minute Man holds his rifle in one hand and plough in the other, gazing toward the coming battle at 'the rude bridge' in Concord with a farmer-turned-warrior’s heroic resolution" Nothing about his alert physog though  :) and is "gaze" really synonymous with "transfixed", I wonder? You could quote the whole "farmer-turned-warrior" thing for much the same effect. FWIW, Richman 1972 p.102 refers to teh minute man as "full of determination and fire", if you want to use that.
40 Howard 1906, pp. 549–550 "Eighteenth-century and nineteenth-century art critics, such as Lorado Taft and H. C. Howard, have suggested that the pose was directly copied from the Roman sculpture. Howard in particular trivializes the sculpture as "little more than an Americanized rendition of the Apollo Belvedere" "As a matter of fact, the young farmer is little more than an Americanized rendition of the Apollo Belvedere" The reference to 18th/19th-C. critics, and Raft, in particular, needs referencing. Taft is mentioned by Howard 5/6 pages later, but that's in connection with another piece. (You could use Richman 1972 p.99, who quotes Taft "with the exception of the left arm, the pose is almost identical"). Neither of them were 18th century.
42 Holzer 2019, p. 45 "Beneath the pedestal is a copper time capsule from 1875 that contains items from past celebrations of the battle, maps, and photographs of both the sculpture and sculptor" "Installed over a time capsule—a copper box stuffed with maps and relics from previous battle commemorations, along with photographs of the statue and its sculptor" None
44b Minute Man National Historical Park "In 1975, a second time capsule was placed beneath the pedestal that included Girl Scouts USA pins, the United States Bicentennial's flag, and a cassette tape" " Contents of this second time capsule are: microfilm containing images of letters, photographs and scrapbooks made by the Girl Scouts; a cassette tape with “The Sounds of Concord”; an American flag; a Bicentennial flag; military patches; Girl Scout pins; and money" You could've added more items, by the way: a plain list is not an original work!
47 Seaton-Schmidt 1922, p. 3 "Anna Seaton-Schmidt referred to it as "the most inspiring of our solder monuments" in her 1922 biography of French in The American Magazine of Art" "one of the most inspiring of our solder monuments". It should be clarified either that she was writing in the 20s, or that—even then—she said it was "one of". There are, after all, other pretty inspiring soldier monuments, so as a statement it's not likely to go unchallenged  :)
49 Richardson 2015, pp. 35–39 "Alcott and other suffragettes appropriated the statue as a symbol of their struggle for voting rights, and the suffragettes made pilgrimages to the statue in the 1880s" (general treatment over a section) None.
52 Tower 1975 "In 1925, the United States Post Office Department released a five-cent stamp depicting the statue and verses from 'Concord Hymn'" "n 1925, however, there were two additional stamps: a 1‐cent showing Washington at Cambridge and a 5‐cent showing Daniel Chester French's statue of the Minute Man at Concord and quoting part of Ralph Waldo Emerson's poem." Nothing to do with source reviewing, but while I'm here, since you're not overburdened with images: how about the 1925 stamp to which you refer?
53 Holzer 2019, p. 57 "The United States Treasury has used the statue on both war bonds and savings bonds" "Less controversially, the statue graced US savings bonds as well as World War II victory bonds" None
55 Ganz 2008, pp. 88–98 "The statue also appears on the reverse of the 2000 Massachusetts state quarter next to an outline of the state" "statue of the Minuteman, after the statue by Daniel Chester French" Pp.88—89, not 88—98.
@Ian Rose: Partly due to what I can access, it's only about a third of the ~70 discrete citations, but there were no red alerts or issues raised. These are mostly minor tweaks of wording, page or date etc. Otherwise, the sourcing and its usage is sound; I found no major works unused that one would otherwise expect to see here.
Incidentally—source rev. hat firmly off—it's probably worth mentioning that Kipling visited the statue in the 1890s and declared himself "very near to choking" at the symbolism of the battlefield: "Much was at play for Kipling as he contemplated the statue of the minuteman", notes Christopher Benfey. Must've made an impact.
Anyway, nice article; give us a shout when you've been able to look over the points above. ——Serial # 15:54, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:06, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is one hell of a comprehensive spotcheck, tks SN! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:01, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Serial Number 54129: Kipling has been added my replies are here

  • Zarzeczny: Done
  • Quote: done
  • 4: I took the "two and a half days a week" as having to show up three times a week. I can move it back towards the source if that seems off to you
  • 7: Changed to ordered a preemptive strike on Concord and changed to 112-113
  • 10: I don't own a physical kindle. I read books through read.amazon.com; at the bottom of the screen shows a page number. I've been using those numbers. The pagination is weird, but they were as good as I could get. The format doesn't make it easy. I wish the classicist got their way and we had line numbers. I rechecked my page numbers and I stand by them.
  • 27: Since it was the approved clay model and both Tolles and Holzer mention the second one was approved, Richman was talking about the second model. I'm going to replace with Holzer because he is the most explicit
  • 33: The exact date is in Boston National Historic Sites Commission 1959
  • 35: This came from Tolles 1999 "If the Minute Man statue reveals protean elements of the Beaux-Arts style, the reworked statuettes reflect a confident command. The result bespeaks the sculptor's added years of experience and recent tenure in Paris: sharpened, more expressive facial features, greater attention to textural variation, and a more animated play of light and shadow on fluid surfaces." I added the citation and made Beaux-Arts in italics.
  • 37b: I have no idea and the edit that added it isn't helpful. After some more searching, this is from Holzer. Changed.
  • 38a: I will take another look
  • 40: This is what taft said about the statue "It is interesting to note what this statue, so alert and so American in character, owes to its senior colleague of the Belvidere [sic]. One can hardly believe it, yet with the exception of the left arm, the pose is almost identical" (Richman 1972, p. 99) meta culpa on the centuries
  • 44b: Today I learned
  • 47: I already sate that the article was published in 1922. "One of the" is a one of the Words to Watch so I tried to attribute it. (I can walk to the monument from my apartment in 15 minutes or so. No image does it justice)
  • 52: I added a gallery
  • 55: Done

--Guerillero | Parlez Moi 00:10, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good work, nice selection of images, Kipling a bonus, all queries resolved. Thanks very much for this. ——Serial # 14:53, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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