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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Stephen Crane

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 02:58, 21 October 2008 [1].

Stephen Crane

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Nominator(s): María (habla conmigo)


After nearly a year's off-and-on work, one successful GA review, full copy-edits by two uninvolved editors, and two peer reviews, I believe this article is finally ready for Featured status. Crane is one of my favorite authors, so I quite enjoyed researching and writing this article, both of which presented various difficulties along the way. All constructive criticism and advice is welcome, no matter how minor, as I'm only interested in improving the representation of such an important American writer. I'll endeavor to answer comments as quickly as possible. Thanks! María (habla conmigo) 17:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
  • Ref #177 has a screwy endash.
  • Per here, Asbury Radio is a weekly radio show about restoration projects in Asbury Park. This subpage is the official website for The Stephen Crane House, the only museum in Asbury Park. I hope this helps establish its notability. María (habla conmigo) 19:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems good enough for me; additionally, the information it cites isn't of a controversial nature. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 21:24, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • IMDb is being used just to prove that the film exists, so for that purpose, yes, it's reliable. María (habla conmigo) 19:04, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - I think the article can use further copyediting. Here are some issues I found with the prose, or things that I found confusing, in the lead and the first section:

Lead section
  • Should "Impressionism", "Realism", and "Naturalism" all be capitalized in mid-sentence?
  • "his father was a Methodist minister ..." - I think this part of the sentence is overly detailed for the lead. Instead, "highly devout parents" is nice and succinct. Instead, I suggest simply saying "The eighth surviving child of highly devout parents, Crane was raised in several New Jersey towns and Port Jervis, New York."
  • Point taken; changed.
  • "Stylistically, Crane's writing is characterized by descriptive vividness and intensity as well as distinctive dialects and irony." - I think a comma is missing to set off the "as well as ..." part of the sentence.
  • I think it can go either way, but just to be sure I added one.
Biography
  • "His mother was an eloquent spokeswoman for the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, but although she was a highly religious woman" - this sentence is awkward with "but although" written together. It could use copyediting. Maybe, say "Although his mother was an eloquent spokeswoman for the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, and was a highly religious woman, Crane did not believe..."
  • "His father wrote in his diary when the young boy was not yet two that his youngest son..." - can this be copyedited, so the sentence is not repeating the words "young" and "youngest"? Maybe instead say "When Stephen was not yet two, his father noted in his diary that his youngest son..."?
  • I didn't want to use "Stephen" in back-to-back sentences, so I used your suggestion but substituted his name with "the boy".
  • "His first known inquiry" - what do you mean by "inquiry"? I think you mean it's the first question he asked? I would be tempted to remove the "His first known inquiry, recorded by his father, dealt with writing;" part of the sentence, and just start off saying "At age three, while imitating..."
  • Hm, I think "first known inquiry" (i.e. question) gives this sentence context; otherwise, does it just seem random?
  • "Dr. Crane died on February 16, 1880" - instead of noting Dr. Crane's age, it might be more useful to the reader to note Stephen's age when his father died, for understanding Stephen's life. Also, it seems trivial to me to mention the size of the audience at the funeral. Perhaps not essential.
  • Added his son's age (8), but I vote for keeping the number of mourners; it demonstrates Dr. Crane's popularity.
  • "After her husband's death", "After living with his brother William" - I don't like starting off two sentences in a row with "after". Try varying the wording.
  • I agree, and I'm usually the first to point this out to others. :) Fixed.
  • Also, I'm confused about how you mention Mrs. Crane moving the family to Roseville, and then jump into saying that Stephen lived with his brother. Did Stephen live with his mother after Dr. Crane's death? how long? when did he start living with his brother?
  • In short, Stephen was "rootless" (his word, not mine) for a few years after his father's death. I've tried to make this clearer.
  • "In the fall of 1885 he enrolled at Pennington Seminary" - I think a comma is missing.
  • Added.
  • "One of the most important events" - how about "A defining event in Crane's life was meeting Hamlin Garland in 1891, who would later serve as an influential adviser and mentor."
  • Much better; changed. Although I moved the "in 1891" until the end of the sentence.
  • Despite being "frail", "undernourished" and suffering from "a hacking cough", - why are these words put in quotes?
  • These are quotes from Munroe herself, but I suppose it's not necessary to attribute a few random words. Removed.

Aside from prose issues, I have to say this article is highly informative for someone not that familiar with literature. The sources all look good and reliable to me, though I'm not really qualified to review on comprehensiveness, factual accuracy, and neutrality. --Aude (talk) 20:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll take a closer look at the prose later on with your suggestions in mind. María (habla conmigo) 21:17, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on images - images check out. Awadewit (talk) 13:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support (Note: I have peer-reviewed this article.) This is an excellent introduction to Crane and his works. It is comprehensive, well-researched, well-written, and well-illustrated. Nice work! Now all of those high-school students reading The Red Badge of Courage will be able to find reputable information about Crane - I think they will be fascinated! ;) Awadewit (talk) 13:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Query In early life it refers to him being a 14th child, with 8 surviving siblings and four dead. What happened to the 13th? ϢereSpielChequers 13:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A middle child had died in infancy, as well; I wasn't sure if this required mentioning, however, since this "exposition" paragraph is already so long. What do you think? María (habla conmigo) 13:58, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Infoboxes are not mandatory nor part of the Featured Article criteria. The very first sentence adequately defines who Crane is and what he's notable for, so I don't think one is necessary. María (habla conmigo) 11:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Comments. I found this a fascinating, thorough, well-written, and well-structured article. The articles I most enjoy reviewing are ones where I discover at the end of the review that I've had a pleasant time learning something I didn't know; that's what happened this time. I copyedited the article somewhat; please revert anything you don't like. I also have a few questions and concerns, mostly minor, before I support.
    • "Although she apparently recovered, the fourth death...": the first clause doesn't work. I think it's intended to give some flow from the previous sentence, about Mrs. Crane's temporary mental debility, into the tale of Luther's death, but because of that "although" I found myself searching for the referent of "she" in the rest of that sentence. That sentence turned out to be about Luther, and I had to read the two sentences two or three times to get everything straight. Here's a possible copyedit -- I couldn't be sure what bits came from which source, so I didn't make this edit to the article: "She had apparently recovered by early 1886, but later that year a fourth death in six years occurred in Stephen's immediate family when the twenty-three year old Luther died after falling in front of an oncoming train while working as a flagman for the Erie Railroad."
      • Great suggestion; updated sentence to your version.
    • "Shortly after attending a Delta Upsilon chapter meeting on June 12, 1891, Crane left college for good." This juxtaposition tends to imply causation; was the meeting the cause of his departure from college? If so, can you say why? If not, I think a rephrase might be in order; perhaps "He attended a Delta Upsilon chapter meeting on June 12, 1891, but shortly afterwards left college for good."
      • The meeting itself didn't spur the end of his college career, so I've implemented your suggestion.
    • Lily Munroe's "family opposed the match because Crane lacked money and prospects": these seem odd reasons to oppose when she was married. Was there really serious discussion of her getting a divorce, and the family was involved in those discussions? If you're following your sources, then I guess it's OK, but I'm surprised -- I thought in those days divorce was both hard to get and scandalous if achieved.
      • Munroe and her husband had been estranged for several years before she met Crane, and she eventually divorced him in the late 1890s. She then remarried soon after. I think the less money you had the less scandalous a divorce was. :) I've added that they were estranged, so hopefully this makes more sense now?
        I thought of the money issue, but a family likely to oppose because of Crane's prospects seems reasonably likely to be middle-class, so I think it needed a fix. What you've done works fine. Mike Christie (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The description of the typewritten title page of Maggie indicates that it said "Stephen Crane", but then a line or two later you say that Crane used the pseudonym "Johnston Smith". Am I missing something?
      • Gah, that was just a silly mixup on my part; Wertheim says that the typewritten title page that includes Crane's name is from the LOC copyright application, while Johnston Smith was of course used initially for publication. I've fixed it, sorry about that.
    • The description of how the publication of The Black Riders was arranged doesn't explicitly say that publication was delayed till after the publication of The Red Badge of Courage. The sequence, if I have it right, is that he first gets a publisher to accept Black Riders; then he writes and publishes Red Badge, and gets some acclaim for it; then Black Riders appears. I think it would make it easier on the reader if you point out at the earlier mention of Black Riders that it would not appear until after his next work was already in print.
      • Good idea; done.
    • "foundered off the coast of Florida for a day and a half": not sure what you intend here -- perhaps "floundered"? -- but "founder" means to sink, which is evidently not correct.
      • Quite right; changed to "floundered".
    • "He undergoes the threat of death, misery and a loss of self." I'm not sure of the meaning here, but should this be "threats" rather than "threat"?
      • I'm fairly certain that "the threat of death" is correct here, but to make it more clear I've changed "undergoes" to "experiences".
    • "this story keeps me in internal despair": is it known which story Crane is referring to here? It seems to be The Little Regiment, but the lead-in to the quote refers to "these tales", so I'm not sure.
      • The quote was written in an 1895 letter, during the time he was writing The Little Regiment, but it doesn't refer to a singular story, no. I think by "this story" he means war, but if this isn't clear I could always just remove the quote?
        If the ambiguity is his, not yours, I think it can stay. If you can think of an effective way to indicate that it isn't clear what the referent of "this story" is, do add it, but I'll strike the objection regardless.
    • "John Berryman's 1950 biography of Crane similarly established him as an important American author." What is the similarity to? To the establishment of Crane by the earlier scholarly work? I don't quite follow, if so: if he was already established, how could he be established by Berryman's biography? Or did his reputation fade again?
      • I believe I meant that Crane's importance was further established by Berryman's bio; reworded to say as much.
    • There's no list of works, nor a link to an article listing them; nor does the "Primary Sources" section appear to be complete. I think a link to a Bibliography of Stephen Crane wouldn't hurt, perhaps at the top of the "Primary Sources" section, or in a "See Also" section, though I try to avoid needing those.
      • "Primary sources" are the works I actually used as sources; it's not meant to be a list of works. I'll see if I can stick something together, although time may be an issue for me.
    • It's usually recommended that images alternate from left to right, for variety. You do this towards the end of the article, but not at the top. It doesn't have to be rigid -- you can choose whether the quotes count as images, for example, and issues of the direction a portrait is facing may overrule the sequence -- but I think you have too many in a row on the right side.
      • I moved one of the quoteboxes to the left, but you're right in that left-facing portraits and Sandy's note from above have kind of tied my hands as to where the images can go. If you can think of anything else to switch around, be my guest!
    • Regarding the infobox, I agree that one is not needed.

-- Mike Christie (talk) 00:32, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the very helpful comments and copy-edits, Mike. I greatly appreciate the insight. Let me know if there's anything else you can think of, and I'll see if I can work on a LOW. María (habla conmigo) 12:37, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've added a short section of selected works by Crane here, and have begun work on the full article at List of works by Stephen Crane. This will be a WIP for some time, however, as "prolific" doesn't begin to cover it. :) María (habla conmigo) 14:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What you've done seems fine to me; the article listing his works obviously has a long way to go, but that's not this article's problem. I have switched to support above. Mike Christie (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I gave a peer review for this article. Well done. --Moni3 (talk) 15:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

 :)

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