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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Donald Forrester Brown/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 14 March 2020 [1].

Donald Forrester Brown edit

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk) 21:46, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Donald Brown, a New Zealand soldier of the First World War who was a posthumous recipient of the Victoria Cross. Only the second New Zealand soldier to be so recognised during the war, it was awarded for his actions during the Battle of the Somme in the First World War. The article was submitted to FAC last year but was closed without promotion due to a lack of comments at the time. Source and image reviews were done by Brianboulton and Nikkimaria respectively; it passed the source review and I have actioned the comments by Nikkimaria. Thanks in advance to all those who participate in the review. Zawed (talk) 21:46, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from AustralianRupert: G'day, Zawed, thanks for your efforts with this article. I have the following comments/suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 07:47, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest linking draper
  • is there potentially a link for Totara?
  • link trench warfare?
  • link company, battalion and division?
  • Done - I linked the second mention of battalion, not the first which was part of a unit name. I thought it could be potentially confusing otherwise. Zawed (talk) 03:45, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link commission
  • link second lieutenant
  • improving the existing defences: is it possible to very briefly explain this? I know what it means, but potentially "improving the defences" might be unknown to the general reader
  • Have added a bit and expanded from another source, the one I relied on initially didn't shed much light on this. Zawed (talk) 03:45, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Otago Regiment was back in the front line on 1 October -- is it possible to very briefly explain what they did in the intervening period?
  • seizing of an enemy machine gun --> "seizing of a German machine gun"?
  • in the References, The New Zealand Division on the Western Front 1916 – 1918 --> "1916–1918" (remove the spaces?)
  • in the References, Official History of the Otago Regiment, N.Z.E.F. in the Great War 1914-1918: endash
  • "October 26, 2009" --> 26 October 2009, for consistency
  • McGibbon is probably overlinked in the References
  • (brief biography details) --> not sure that the italics are necessary are here
  • external links work (no action required)
  • there are no dabs, all images have alt text (no action required)

Thanks for the review AustralianRupert. I have responded as above and my edits are here]. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 03:45, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, added my support above. I made a couple of minor tweak also - please check you are happy with those changes. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 04:03, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Coffeeandcrumbs and source review edit

  • Please make it explicitly clear where I can verify middle name
  • Have recited his name in full in the early life section, which is supported by the cite at end of that sentence. Zawed (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • At least 1 link to First World War, in either the body or lead, would be nice
  • Source says McFarlane was her birth name (maybe {{nee}}?)
  • Ref #3 has the notable fact that he was the youngest son. May I suggest "...was youngest son and one of 10 children..."?
  • I've tried a variation so I didn't have to move cites around. How does it work for you? Zawed (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "should Switch Trench" → "should the Switch Trench"
  • I disagree but can see why you raised. In hindsight, the introduction of Switch Trench in the narrative wasn't handled well. I have rephrased it, is the current form acceptable to you? Zawed (talk) 10:07, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't understand what you mean by "With Brown's death". Are you suggesting he would have otherwise advocated for his own nomination?
  • No, not the intention. The issue here is that officialdom wasn't moving very fast to recognise his gallantry and it may have been different if he was still alive. I suspect that it was easier to take a go slow approach for a dead hero than a living one. I have rephrased this section. Zawed (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Zawed: "... recognise Brown's gallantry wand it was not until the officers ..." --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 10:39, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. For some odd reason, my brain could not figure out that it was a misspelling of "and". I feel stupid. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 11:26, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be easier to read if Arthur Foljambe was the subject of the sentence
Done. Zawed (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have checked every online source cited and AGF on offline sources. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 09:30, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coffeeandcrumbs: thank you for taking the time to review the article. I have responded to your points above and with changes to the article. My edits are here. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley edit

  • "Brown's company lost 123 men from its initial complement of 180 during the opening day of the battle." Is it known how many were wounded and how many killed?
  • No, there is no breakdown of casualties within the company in the sources. I did find one for the battalion's casualties for the opening 24 hours but that probably won't be that helpful here. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a contradiction between your account of his death, which says by a sniper during the action, and that in the VC citation, which says later while sniping at the retreating enemy.
  • I hadn't noticed that but don't quite see it as a contradiction, more a matter of detail about what he was doing at the time. I have expanded the article a little bit on this point. Funnily enough it was an older source that had the detail, not a more recent one. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest running the page analysis tool at [2], which generally finds some archived copies of citations.
  • Done, it archived seven citations. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do not see the point of an external link to a cropped copy of the lead image.
  • Neither do I! I'm surprised I didn't get my brain into gear and remove that one when looking at the external links. Zawed (talk) 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dudley Miles, thanks for looking at this, I was getting nervous the article might not get any more reviewers. I have responded to your points above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5 edit

  • Donald Forrester Brown was born on 23 February 1890 in Dunedin, New Zealand Pipe New Zealand to the Dominion of New Zealand.
  • The newly formed New Zealand Division was training in Egypt Pipe Egypt to the Sultanate of Egypt.
  • the Battle of Flers–Courcelette, part of the Somme offensive Somme offensive is a proper noun well that's at least what the article says.
  • Oops, have put offensive in title case. Zawed (talk) 02:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "1915–16" --> "1915–1916" in the infobox.
  • had to capture a series of German held trenches --> "had to capture a series of German-held trenches"
  • suffered very heavy casualties in officers and men from machine gun fire --> "suffered very heavy casualties in officers and men from machine gunfire"
  • I didn't do this one as how it is in the text is how it appears in the citation (also grammatically, I think making the change would be incorrect). This make me go back to the citation itself to doublecheck though and as a result I found a couple of slight inconsistencies which I have fixed. Zawed (talk) 02:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • it was again held up by machine gun fire Same as above.
  • He attacked, single handed, a machine gun which was holding up the attack --> "He attacked, single-handed, a machine gun which was holding up the attack"
  • This is one of the inconsistencies I found between the text and the actual citation. I have amended for consistency with the citation. Zawed (talk) 02:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:23, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • CPA-5, I have responded to your point as above. Thanks for taking the time to look at this, much appreciated. Zawed (talk) 02:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh another thing here (I've totally forgot this) After a period of rest, Brown's battalion moved back into the front line on the night of 28 September do you mean the night of 27/28 or 28/29? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 08:45, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is supposed to be the night of 28/29. To be more clear about which day, I've replaced night with evening. Zawed (talk) 07:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, looks good, support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias edit

  • File:Warlencourt British Cemetery -4.JPG needs a tag for the country of origin as well as the US for the gravestone.
  • As Totara is a red link, can you provide a brief description of where it is in the text?

That's it from me, a nice succinct article. Good work. Harrias talk 09:22, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Harrias, thanks for stopping by and reviewing this. Per your comments, I've added a PD tag for France to the image and made a slight tweak to the text to clarify the location of Totara. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, I couldn't find much wrong with this to start with. Please also consider this a successful image review; the images used are appropriately tagged and captioned. Harrias talk 10:26, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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