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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Atlantic blue marlin/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 21:50, 2 May 2009 [1].

Atlantic blue marlin

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Nominator(s): Grander13 (talk) 02:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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I am nominating this for featured article because I want to make this article as good as it can be.--Grander13 (talk) 02:08, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tech. Review
  • zoo is a ref name that is used more than once, it should only be used once: checked with WP:REFTOOLS.
  • Fix the four disambiguation links, checked with the dab finder tool.

I think these are fixed.--Grander13 (talk) 15:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it not a reliable source?--Grander13 (talk) 15:17, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have never used Zipcode zoo in my FAs because it is not a reliable source. It is not an on-line version either of a book or of a peer-reviewed journal, nor is it published by a source that would itself confer reliability (for example, I've used the European Zoo and Aquarium Association as a reference on the captive breeding of Northern Bald Ibis because they clearly have dependable expertise in that specific area, similarly the BTO for egg details). Some of the zipcode stuff is referenced, but not the bits you have used. That's not to say it's wrong, but it's not properly sourced. jimfbleak (talk) 06:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Current ref 20 (Understanding...) is a book and should be formatted as such.
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will address that. --Grander13 (talk) 14:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC) I think I fixed it.--Grander13 (talk) 15:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • When mature, Atlantic blue marlin primarily feeds on a wide range missing the or should be feed. What's the point of primary does it eat things other than those stated?

It should be "feed." The point of "primarily" is because blue marlin will eat just about anything if it is available to them. --Grander13 (talk) 14:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it doesn't really make sense as written. I would either lose primarily or rephrase something like When mature, Atlantic blue marlin feed mainly on a wide range of fish (such as tuna and mackerel) and cephalopods (such as squid), but also take.... jimfbleak (talk) 06:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • rod and reel because of the catch's rarity. if it is rare, why does not currently consider it a threatened species.?

Of all the ocean species targeted by fishermen, atlantic blue marlin are probably the rarest. It is really good to catch just one in a full day. A lot of days you may not have a bite. --Grander13 (talk) 14:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    • The distribution of Atlantic blue marlin expands in a northerly direction during the warmer months and contracts towards the equator during colder months. I'm not clear what happens at the southern limit of its range

I'm not sure I know what you mean?

  • It's confusing to me. First, what are the warmer months - this fish straddles the equator, so are we talking about the warmer months in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere? Assuming the usual US-centricity, I suppose it's the northern summer, but that's not explicit. If it it is the northern summer, I understand that the northern edge of the range expands north as it gets warmer, then contracts as the seas cool. What is happening at the southern edge of the marlin's range? Does that contract north in the southern winter (northern summer) or does it stay put? Again, there is an implicit bias in that it only seems to be the northern range, accessible to the US, that matters, and what is happening south of the equator doesn't merit a mention.

First of all, this is more of a general statement, since the migrations of this species as a whole have not been mapped out very specifically. Either way, the "warmer months" are warm whether they are in the southern hemisphere or northern hemisphere. They are just at different times of the year. I am talking mainly about the northern hemisphere because almost all the good and famous blue marlin spots are located in the northern hemisphere, except for Brazil. I could mention this I guess. I still don't understand what you mean by what happens at the southern edge of the marlin's range. Do you mean where do they move to? or how they behave. I don't really know for sure how they behave in the southern hemisphere since I have not seen it mentioned in any articles. I assume the opposite of northern hemisphere fish. move south in the warmer months and north in the warmer months.--Grander13 (talk) 21:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are probably right, but if it is just an assumption could you state that movements in the southern part of the range are unknown/have not been studied? jimfbleak (talk) 05:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The movement between the Caribbean Islands and Venezuela and the Bahamas is presumably not a seasonal movement since it's a completely separate paragraph, but it's unclear when it is happening. Also the phrasing is unclear. First time I read it I assumed the movement was from the islands south to Venezuela and north to the Bahamas, whereas you probably mean from the islands and Venezuela north to the Bahamas jimfbleak (talk) 06:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are probably right about the direction of travel, it makes more sense. Also, I say there is currently not enough information to determine when the "migrations" occur.--Grander13 (talk) 01:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can make it part of Taxonomy and naming. Should it be under a sub-heading or just be a regular paragraph?--Grander13 (talk) 23:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I personally don't like one para sections, so I'd be inclined to just add as is jimfbleak (talk) 05:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The refs are a mess
  • 6, 7, 14 at least have both the binomial name and the English text italicised - this can't be right. If the English text needs to be italicised, the binomial should become Roman jimfbleak (talk) 06:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 14, 17, 18 why does every word start with a capital? - not MoS, not consistent with other refs
  • 15, 17, 19 urls visible because of white space/breaks in the ref text - I've fixed 17 to check what the problem was, but not the others, (and I've not fixed the caps in 17) jimfbleak (talk) 06:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The map is a problem. The map description claims that it is based on a tiger shark map
  • the map it is sourced to does not exist
  • Is it saying that the range is the same as the tiger shark's. If so, it needs a reference
  • If the non-existent Tiger Shark map has been adapted for this species, you need to say that with a source for the changes jimfbleak (talk) 06:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sasata (talk) 16:15, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I failed this article in its first GA review, and the article has improved by leaps and bounds since then. But at the FA level, I'm going to have to oppose on the basis of 1(c) "well-researched: it is characterized by a thorough and representative survey of relevant literature on the topic." Unfortunately, the article fails in this respect, as no attempt has been made to review the scholarly literature on this creature, and provide an overview about the research that has been done; instead the article relies largely on easily-accessible web sources. A Web of Science search turns up close to 150 papers that haven't been mentioned here; the judicious addition of choice cited tidbits from some of these article would make this a much better article, in my opinion. I realize of course, that I have the advantage of being able to access most of these articles with a couple of mouse clicks, and the work involved is going to be much more difficult for a high-school student, who would likely have to make multiple trips to a University library to access these papers. But that doesn't mean that the FAC standards should be lowered... There are some other minor issues like the length of some paragraphs, and reference formatting, but those can be dealt with later once more content is added.

I would just like to say that there is no University library anywhere near where I live or any library that is reasonably nice. Therefore, I do not have access to most papers of interest. However, I agree that the standards for FA should not be lowered.--Grander13 (talk) 01:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's too bad. How about you withdraw this nomination, I'll help the article by adding the information I have easy access to, and we can resubmit as co-nominators in a couple of weeks? Does that work with your class schedule? Sasata (talk) 02:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's a very good idea, I was beginning to feel that there was too much to do to get to FA this time, but it can get there with with a bit more time. I've no expertise or sources for fish, but I've written many FAs, so I'm happy to help with the technical and prose side if that would be of any value jimfbleak (talk) 06:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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