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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Anachronox/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose (talk) 11:40, 30 June 2014 (diff).

Anachronox edit

Nominator(s): GamerPro64 21:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC), ZeaLitY[reply]

I've been trying to make this introduction sound interesting, but honestly I believe that the article being nominated has that taken care of. But I guess it doesn't hurt to try. Being made by Ion Storm, makers of the early 2000s classic Deus Ex, and Daikatana, infamous for being an overhyped flop and having founder John Romero wanting "to make you his bitch", Anachronox is amazing beast in its own right. While it received some positive reviews when released, it failed to keep the company's Dallas office from closing down and resulted in Romero and Tom Hall, co-founder of Ion Storm and the one behind Anachronox, leaving the company. There's many more interesting details about the game in the article, which I believe meets the FA criteria. But since not everything can be perfect, I expect some constructive criticism will present itself to help secure this article a bronze star. GamerPro64 21:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Glad to see this is finally up at FAC. Way back when, I helped User:Zeality dig up many of the sources that this article is based on, but I never got to see it taken all the way. I feel like I should mention, though, that several of those sources went dead when GameSpot enabled robots.txt. All of the GameSpot Designer Diaries are now gone, and (to my knowledge) they aren't available anywhere else on the Internet. Hopefully the information taken from those links is available elsewhere. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:51, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Review from czar edit

Please respond below my signature so as to leave the original review uninterrupted (see last FAC instructional bullet). Any questions below are rhetorical: I'm looking for clarification in the article, not an actual answer.

  • Not sure the portmanteau in the title is necessary for the lede. Also I recommend an audio file to go with your IPA pronunciation, if it was necessary to have the pronunciation at all
    • Agreed, moved the portmanteau explanation to the plot section. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are unnecessary cites in the lede—only need it for direct quotes and controversial stuff for which readers would want a citation anyway
    • Only one left now for the engine, which is probably the only notable fact requiring a cite up there. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "near the hub of the galaxy's star-lanes": this is unclear—what is the hub? the star-lanes? why not call them jumpgates instead of the in-universe term? I corrected this as I understood it, but I am somewhat guessing here
    • GamerPro fixed. 23:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Is Sly Boots human? What makes the planet alien? Worth a few words of clarification of this relationship if it's worth mentioning that the planet is alien
    • Fixed; now "once-abandoned" (since "aliens" doesn't even make sense in this context). Added a reference to Sly as human in his character section.
  • {{Infobox video game}} uses |media= only where the distribution is ambiguous—not sure it is in this case
  • The ibox credits need to be checked. E.g., per the prose, Hughes is not the main producer
    • Fixed producer issue. Also added Ben Herrera to artists section, since he designed all the characters. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for using list-defined refs
  • "shown in cutscenes": the shuttle or the travel? rephrase
  • "e.g., one where the player pilots a fighter spaceship ...": that's the action but what's the minigame?
  • "Certain maps": what is a map? a level? Also minimize and link the video game jargon on first use. And I think this line is best off as a footnote
    • Noted what a "field map" refers to in the gameplay section and rewrote as "certain field maps". The term isn't something we've cited in RPG articles before, but it's right on the border between what an uninitiated reader would understand vs. need a reference for. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A special feature of exploration is the use of the protagonist Boots's camera": doesn't make sense—the camera is a feature of exploration
  • "when the meter is full, the character can perform an action": such as?

I'm hitting way too many potholes so far. Can one of the noms give it a good read-through for these types of concerns before I come back to continue the copyedit? czar ♔ 16:05, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: Zeality and I fixed your concerns now. GamerPro64 01:36, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Working on the issues raised so far but hit a bit of a snag as when trying to make all the credits the same with the prose, the reference used for it is down. This is from the fact that Gamespot has done robots.txt on their older references. So I may have to look for another reference which may be difficult. GamerPro64 02:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC) Update - The robots.txt issue for GameSpot references have been taken care of and can now be read. GamerPro64 22:56, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]


  • Were there once other gameplay images here? I vaguely recall a spacestation or something. I have no idea what's going on in the GroundPound image—it either needs to be explicated in the caption or tossed out for a more representative screenshot. This whole huge game is best summarized by this sole image of an empty battle screen?
    • I don't remember a picture of a space station. I'll talk to Zeality about possibly getting a new image for the article. GamerPro64 19:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • For a ~40kB article, the lede is unproportional. It should have more about the actual gameplay than that it compares to Chrono or FF. Comparatively, a whole paragraph is spent on story. Trim some out of that one and expand the others to be fully representative of the article
    • Added more to the lead and trimmed up the part on the story aspect of the article. GamerPro64 00:51, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the expansion of "APE" italicized?
  • Infobox individuals need to be either cited in the article or have their own citations nearby. Are there really three artists or is there one lead?
  • {{Infobox video game}} uses |media= only where the distribution is ambiguous, which it isn't in this case
    • @Czar: Maybe I'm not understand the issue. What exactly is the problem with the media part of the infobox? I don't know what you mean by the distribution being ambiguous. GamerPro64 18:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Distribution CD-ROM, digital distribution: per Template:Infobox_video_game#media, I don't think the field is necessary czar ♔ 23:10, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So you're saying that section of the infobox should be removed? GamerPro64 01:03, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lot of those development quotes need paraphrasing, and consider MOS:Blockquote regarding the three longer ones
  • non-compliance with MOS:ELLIPSIS
  • The dev section is too long with too much inconsequential stuff: "(booth 7345)", the names next to the maps, etc. Spin-out into its own development article isn't a bad idea, but I wonder how much will be left after trimming the stuff that shouldn't appear in any article
  • "ION Storm" → "Ion Storm"
  • wfy "RV"

czar ♔ 06:01, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Review by SnowFire edit

  • Comment. I realize that obtaining accurate PC sales figures is a dark art, but just verifying - you looked and couldn't find any? Also:
  • "The game developed a cult following." This doesn't appear to be referenced or elaborated on in the article itself though.
  • "its developers were disappointed with producer support." Yet later in the article you quote a developer saying "I sing the praises of Eidos for sticking with us through all the craziness—they were amazing." I'm sure the developers would have liked more time / support, but they sound understanding about the amount they did get, not disappointed...
  • "Use of MysTech and equippable shield cells require NRG, a separate energy reserve" - What's NRG stand for? Or is it just NRG? (I realize that this may be in-game trivia but I was puzzled on seeing the acronym first without having had something like a "Natural Resource Grade (NRG)" earlier.)
    • NRG stands for "Neutron-Radiated Glodents". Funny how that's a thing. GamerPro64 16:30, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hall also drew dramatic inspiration from a scene in Trigger in which the characters discuss the theme of regret around a campfire." - Go ahead and spell out "Chrono Trigger", it's just one extra word. Also... I haven't played Anachronox, but I have played CT, and I'm not sure I'd really call it a "theme of regret" in that scene. Is that really what the source says? (The passage is fine if that's what the Anachronox developers really thought it was about, of course.) SnowFire (talk) 12:30, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I wasn't the one who put the reference in so I don't have the magazine. So I may need to find the one who did to see if its correct. GamerPro64 16:30, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Here is a scan of the page that talks about it. It's Tom Hall's interpretation of the scene, it seems. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 00:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Interesting. Any thoughts on my first two comments, though? Lots of games claim to have "cult" followings simply because they have fans - I'd be skeptical of including the claim without a really good reference, and there appears to be no such reference at all at the moment. SnowFire (talk) 20:27, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I removed the mention of developers being disappointed and mentions of "cult classic" in the article. GamerPro64 21:28, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I could have sworn there was a citation for that disappointment that specifically referred to the limited marketing of Eidos as the point of contention. But I can't find it, and the game probably wasn't going to get huge sales numbers anyhow with the outdated engine and offbeat genre. So yeah, I agree with just leaving it out. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:23, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@SnowFire: I myself checked to find sales figures on the game with no results. But besides that I believe all your comments you raised have been addressed. Unless you have more you spotted. GamerPro64 01:35, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm still here. Sorry, been meaning to give the article another closer once-over but haven't gotten to it. Call it a weak support then for now, I'll try and come back later and either upgrade to full support or else comment on other issues. SnowFire (talk) 03:09, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Image review from PresN edit

Polished the rationale on both of those with references to the article. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 19:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Now passed. --PresN 23:34, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion pack: File:Anachronox gameplay.jpg - non-free screenshot, with problems- 1280x960 is not small enough, please get it down to 300x225 or thereabouts like the image you were replacing. Also, the FUR is weird- your minimal use statement says no, then gives a further purpose of use, you don't say why it's not replaceable with free media (no such free media exists for this game), and you don't answer the commercial oppotunities (just say that the image is too low-res to be used for commercial purposes, once you resize the image. --PresN 01:38, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. I made the image 300x225 and updated the FUR. GamerPro64 02:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, passed for that image as well. --PresN 06:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Crisco 1492 edit

    • Don't think I've played this one. Anywho, here are some prose comments from me.
  • Some puzzles require skills such as lockpicking, and each playable character has a unique skill. - rework to remove the duplication of "skills"? Perhaps "Each playable character has a unique skill, such as lockpicking, which may be used to solve puzzles."
  • several pictures for memories or minor quests. - unclear what "memories" is in this context. Player memory, or "memories" in a gameplay context?
  • For playable characters and computer-controlled enemies, each attack reduces their number of hit points (a numerically based life bar), which can be restored through healing items or MysTech slags. - could be misread as the act of attacking another character reduces hitpoints (which would be an interesting gameplay mechanic, to be fair), rather than being hit by an attacker
  • levels - I'd link this, even if the right target is a subsection of XP
  • awakens across the galaxy. - Don't think this is an encyclopedic turn of phrase
  • colored bugs - insects? I don't think you'll find much support for "bug" here, as it can be ambiguous (even if that's the term used in the game)
  • can be found scattered throughout the world of Anachronox - it was a galaxy one second, and now it's a world. Another reason for nixing the galaxy above
  • it is here that Boots runs his detective agency in the storage space above a bar. - since you haven't introduced Boots in the body of the text, this may not make much sense. I'd have the characters before the setting section, but that's just me
  • Due to a freak of galactic commerce, this has become the standard unit of currency for the galaxy. Some areas still use non-digital money. The one-dollar coin is called a "loonie", because it has a loon on the back. - this isn't explicitly the Canadian coin
    • Re-wored to have nothing to do with the Canadian coin.
  • Other planets number Sunder, Hephaestus, Democratus, and Limbus. - Are these in Sender one? Also, I don't think "Number" works best here
    • Fixed and removed "Numbers".
  • crtystalline - spelling?
    • I have done a couple of the comments you raised above but I have no clue where this one is in the article. GamerPro64 04:24, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • One of the direct quotes in your references. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:26, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • I looked to see where to find a quote from this and came across this. Seeing that this Let's Play had some dialogue written out instead of showing every screenshot, I assume that it was an error and that it was also copy-pasted for the reference. And seeing how Krapton appears to be a parody of Krypton, its possible the correct spelling is "crystalline". GamerPro64 04:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
          • Hmm... I'd guess so. Someone could check it, but considering this is a 70+ hour game... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • hotshot - not encyclopedic
  • 29 years old - best not to start a sentence with a numeral
  • The team then gains support from Democratus, an eccentric planet boasting a planetary ring and brilliant technology. - the second half of that sentence is redundant to the "setting" section. Or does the entire planet become one character, which could be noted a bit clearer (it is later on, but not in this section)?
  • We shouldn't use acronyms like "isn't" in Wikipedia's voice. In quotes, okay, but not in the article proper.
    • This one I am also at a lose. Do you mean the dialogue that is quoted for the references? GamerPro64 05:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Commment. Assuming you meant "contractions" not acronyms, I'm strongly opposed to this advice. Wikipedia's voice is not some stuffy 1960s BBC announcer. It's perfectly professional English to include contractions. SnowFire (talk) 20:27, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the next universe, - next as in time frame, or next as in spatial position? Ambiguous. And if it is next universe (time), how can it already have happened? Or is previous a mistake?
  • Fatima his office one night to leave a note of resignation. - missing a verb. I'd split this backstory into its own paragraph
    • Add verb and split the backstory into own paragraph. GamerPro64 05:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll stop here. Good read. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Watch for an overabundance of sentences starting with "he"
  • "Anachronox" should be Anachronox per WP:WORDSASWORDS
    • So are you saying every time Anachronox is mentioned in the article it should be italicized? GamerPro64 05:38, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • 32-bit color - link
  • Artist and programmer Travis Doggett agreed that there should be no "elitist" distinction between artists and level designers. - This seems disconnected from the rest of the paragraph
  • funk - link
  • all-nighters - is there a more encyclopedic way of phrasing this?
  • The game would suffer serious delays in its production. - might want to go into more detail
  • Panelists at E3 nominated Anachronox in the "Most Promising Game" and "Best RPG" categories. - nominated for what?
  • Jeff Wand of Ion Storm remarked that Anachronox was being written with female players in mind. - Also feels disconnected from the surrounding sentences
    • I couldn't find a place for the sentence so I removed it. GamerPro64 20:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hall listed some of his inspirations for Anachronox in mid-2000: "In movies, some inspirational people are Spielberg, Hitchcock, George Roy Hill, Rob Reiner, and now Sam Mendes. Also a big fan of Chuck Jones, who directed Warner Brothers cartoons. Novels: Gateway, Ender's Game, Snow Crash, Hitchhiker's, so many more. Games: Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, LucasArts adventures (Ron Gilbert and Tim Schafer rock), Ape Escape (buy it now), Mario, Ultima III, Wizardry I, oh, I'm sure I'm forgetting some!" - Although chronologically in the right place, thematically it's not tied in with the remainder of the paragraph
    • Moved the sentence near the end of the "Conception" section. Does that work out better? GamerPro64 00:35, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The whole section on the creation of the game reads fairly disjointed.
    • Part of this is because it's been condensed from a much lengthier original write-up. The rest is owed to my training in the school of Tony1, haha. I try to condense prose into the richest chunks possible without sacrificing readability, and it's a constant struggle. I'll look at it and see what I can do. There was also the usual issue of a temporal write-up forbidding the grouping of similar topics; I tried to strike a balance between both. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 23:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • A bit of work on the Segue between sentences and paragraphs may help reduce this impression. Right now it feels a bit untidy. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Make sure links are on first mention in the body. For instance, Ion Storm is located in #Reception, but your first mention is in #Development
  • Check the order of your footnotes after sentences (ex: [124][109][123][116][116][117])
    • Combed over the article two or three times. I believe I got this one taken care of. GamerPro64 04:46, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are the giveaways really part of "Legacy"? I'd classify them as "release"
    • Moved some info from "Legacy" to "Release". Even moved some info into "Reception". GamerPro64 04:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Though received well, the game's success did not prevent the closure of Ion Storm's Dallas office in July 2001; - no sales figures, which are what companies care about…
    • Took out "success" to make it read "Though received well, the game did not prevent the closure of Ion Storm's Dallas office in July 2001." Also, as mentioned above, finding sales figures bore no fruit. GamerPro64 04:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The work was considered the genre's first feature-length production - what genre? You haven't said in the running prose yet
  • Might want to have the name of the film near the beginning of the paragraph, not the end
  • As of 2003, Machinima.com planned to release the film on DVD with extra footage and artwork. - this is really old (11 years). Any more recent information?
    • I checked to see if they even released it on DVD and can only find forums. I don't even think a DVD of it officially exists physically. Seeing how Machinima.com is stepping away from machinima itself, this one may be a lost cause. GamerPro64 04:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hall remarked in 2010, "If I don't do the game in the next 10 years, I'll just write up the rest of the story and put it on my website for closure, how about that?" - and did he do it?
    • Seeing that he said that in 2010 and its 2014, and we may have to wait six more years for it to possibly happen, I'm going to say he didn't do it yet. GamerPro64 21:28, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Har har, I assumed as much... but it would be nice to have an RS stating as much. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • I added the line "As of 2014, a sequel has yet to be announced." if that works. GamerPro64 04:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Might want to mention that the sequels were nixed before saying "He later stated that he did not regret ending Anachronox on a cliffhanger, as most characters had resolved their inner turmoil.", otherwise it doesn't make much sense. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:10, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Looks like my major concerns have all been addressed, and the prose is nice and tight. Thanks for writing this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:26, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments from Hamiltonstone edit

  • Why is there so much primary source text being quoted in a bunch of the footnotes 6 through 29? Per MOS:PLOT, it does not appear necessary, though perhaps it is because extracting information from a multilevel game is more complex? Can an editor explain the rationale?
    • I honestly don't know how to answer this concern. I wasn't the one who added all those source text to the article. Though I do believe that having so much source text helps with the context and understanding what happens in the section of the game it is used for referencing. GamerPro64 03:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Have you compared this to some other FA game articles? I'm not a game article reader; as an occasional reader of articles about movies or books, the plot section already seems pretty long, with its three subsections. To then find yet more text in the footnotes seems overdoing it. If someone actually wants to play the game, they don't need the encyclopedia article. I would delete all footnote content that is not required by MOS:PLOT.hamiltonstone (talk) 02:27, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • So comparing it to Halo 3 and Final Fantasy XIII, the text in the footnotes are longer than the both of them. I removed a few sources that I thought to be expendable and unnecessary. However I do believe that the ones for the "Setting" section to be necessary and helps source the section well. Also, I noticed that two of the larger footnotes have used more than once as a reference in the article so I think that it's okay for them to be the size that they are. GamerPro64 03:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
          • It looks to me that if this point is resolved, and someone can deal with the fact tag at the end of the Characters section, then this nom might be ready to promote. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:10, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
            • I honestly have no clue on what to do with that Citation Needed. It was added by Crisco who himself supports the nom. I personally think that having a citation for that part is not necessary but I'm not going to removed the tag mainly because someone else thought it did need one. GamerPro64 04:22, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
              • I added the {{fact}} tag as you are referencing all of the other characters, so I figured it would be best to standardise. It's not quite required by conventions on plots, but since you've already referenced everything else... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:27, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
                • Hmm. Well the references used for the other characters was taken from the Anachronox website which has one blank space in the gallery. Makes me wonder who that was for. Wouldn't overall know what to use as a citation for that part in the article. GamerPro64 04:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
                  • The game proper? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:56, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
                    • Okay. So I used the first meeting of the character Detta as the reference for that part in the article. Does that work out? GamerPro64 22:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
All right. Now I just need to hear back from Hamiltonstone go see if the sourcing has the all clear. GamerPro64 06:37, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The only possible sourcing issue I can see is the text in those early footnotes. I don't have the experience with game articles to call that particular point one way or the other, but the delegates probably do. I certainly think you've explained the rationale, and you've gone over them and trimmed where you think appropriate. That's good.hamiltonstone (talk) 11:39, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think Hamilton and Gamer both have valid points: perhaps the quotes in the sources are more than is needed, particularly given they're in a plot section; OTOH other FAs (not just game articles) have used quotes in citations to help establish the veracity of the sourcing. I'm comfortable going with it as is for the purposes of this review. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:39, 30 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't think the bolding is called for in these notes.
    • I agree with you about the bolding for the platform part of the citations. But for Template:Cite video game, the example shown kinda implies that it's all right to bold the names of the characters. GamerPro64 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually I checked the citations for the footnotes and I have no clue on how the platform part of the citations are bolded. I'm not sure if it's automatic or not. GamerPro64 21:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Footnote 80: "Anachronox Rumors Find Some Fact". IGN. 2000-07-12." - looks to me like it has an actual author (see bottom of item) who should be cited.
  • Footnote 100: re o b l i v i o n level: is this OK as a reliable source?

References are otherwise generally excellent. Unrelated to source comments: Caption (and indeed the picture itself) for first image (other than one in infobox) "Paco uses the GroundPound BattleSkill" is truly incomprehensible.hamiltonstone (talk) 13:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yeah, like I said in Czar's comment above, a more representative screenshot may replace the one currently shown. GamerPro64 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Mr. Gonna Change My Name Forever edit

Support The article looks great. Thank you @GamerPro64:, I'm happy with your work! =D }IMr*|(60nna)I{ 14:10, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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