User talk:Tim riley/Archive20

Edward Elgar

There was a comment at Jimbo's talk page here about getting a survey after he read the Elgar article. I don't know if that is something you all set up, or something WMF does, or something in his settings. I checked and you are the biggest contributor to that article. Thought you might want to know. Jytdog (talk) 18:15, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Jytdog: it's kind of you to mention it here. This survey is news to me, and I don't know what it's doing on the Elgar page or who arranged for it to do so. The ways of Wikipedia can be passing strange. Tim riley talk 11:58, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Welsh National Opera

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Welsh National Opera you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ritchie333 -- Ritchie333 (talk) 13:20, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Welsh National Opera

The article Welsh National Opera you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Welsh National Opera for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ritchie333 -- Ritchie333 (talk) 17:21, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Fauré piano music

Sorry to bother you again. In this phrase "The manuscript (in the Bibliothèque nationale, Paris) is in Massenet's hand." does it means that the manuscript was owned by Massenet and nowadays belongs to the Bibliotheque nationale? It is not clear to me. Massenet died in 1912 whereas Fauré did do in 1924, so I don't understand this. Thank you! Triplecaña (talk) 13:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I am so glad you mentioned this! I am embarrassed to have to say that "Massenet" is a typo: I should have written "Messager", whose handwriting the manuscript is in. Now corrected. Best wishes, Tim riley talk 13:41, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Wow, so fast. I was about to write you about this source identifier for searching: MS 17769. All clear now. The section starts with Fons Bibliothèque Nationale so its clear. Triplecaña (talk) 13:45, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Images to Commons

Which of the images used in the article can be transferred to Commons? I have no idea regarding copyrights and I would like to know if I myself can upload them in Commons with PD-1923 licensing. I will understand if you don't have the time or the desire to do this. Triplecaña (talk) 14:23, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't give you an expert (or even half-expert) answer. The PD-1923 tag shows that a picture is not in copyright in the USA (and can therefore be used in Wikipedia) but for Commons the picture also has to be out of copyright in its country of origin. I have encountered problems in the past, if I recall correctly, with WP's strange rules that seem to insist that even if the Bibliothèque nationale de France labels a picture as "domaine publique" that isn't sufficient to satisfy the strict standards of Commons. But in truth I really don't understand the rules. If anyone who is kind enough to watch this talk page can throw any light on this I shall be very pleased if he or she chips in here. Tim riley talk 16:43, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

No, it's impossible for the lay person, as Copyright law is of Byzantine complexity, and the law has actually been changed several times retrospectively, so even reading up on it is fraught with danger. If you want to check the best people to ask are on Commons themselves. (Or you can try a copyright lawyer. ;-}) Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:13, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Which article are you asking about, Triplecaña? Happy to take a look. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:27, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The article is Piano music of Gabriel Fauré. Thank you Triplecaña (talk) 18:48, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

• File:Faure1907.jpg: unlikely, 20th-century creator with unknown date of death
• File:Fauré-1875.jpg: yes, author stated to have died in the 1800s
• File:John_Singer_Sargent_-_Gabriel_Fauré.jpg: yes, author died 1925 so fine under life+70 for France
• File:Fauré-9th-Nocturne.jpg: yes, anonymous design published over 70 years ago
• File:Fauré-in-Venice.jpg: unknown, not enough information
• File:Gabriel_Fauré_1896.jpg: unknown, not enough information
• File:Faure-manuscript-11th-barcarolle.jpg: possibly, depending on whether the copyright was transferred to the book author/publisher or not
• File:Gabriel_Fauré_en_uniforme_de_l'Ecole_Niedermeyer.jpg: yes, author stated to have died in the 1800s
• File:Gabriel_Fauré_dans_le_jardin_du_Conservatoire.jpg: unknown, not enough information
• File:Gabriel_Fauré,_devant_son_piano,_dans_son_appartement_boulevard_Malesherbes.jpg: yes, life+70
• File:Messager-by-fauré.jpg: yes, life+70
• File:Gabriel_Fauré_jouant_à_quatre_mains_avec_Melle_Lombard.jpg: unknown, not enough information
• File:Berceuse_by_Gabriel_Fauré_op56_no1.ogg: unknown. There are two copyrights to consider here, the composition itself and the recording. The recording is free, but the status of the composition is unclear without more information. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:03, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I say! That's service – thank you very much, Nikkimaria! Over to you, Triplecaña. Tim riley talk 12:08, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I really appreciate this! I've succesfully transferred to Commons four files. Check my latest contributions Again, maybe this should be moved to the article talk page instead. Triplecaña (talk) 12:20, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Welsh National Opera

The article Welsh National Opera you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Welsh National Opera for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ritchie333 -- Ritchie333 (talk) 14:41, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Congrats!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:10, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Excellent performance! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:33, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

ps: a delegate wants a source review for BWV 4, - anybody out there? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:12, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Precious again, your detailed constructive comments which helped to improve Christ lag in Todes Banden, BWV 4 to FA!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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File:Old-sadlers-wells-1879.jpg

Hello! I need this file for translate the page of English National Opera (ENO) in Italian. For your experience is it possible to put a license for using in Italy? Thank you --Brunokito (talk) 11:32, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I think you can use it in Italian Wikipedia: the pre-1923 licence tag applies to files hosted on WP's servers in the US, which, as far as I know, host the Italian as well as the English Wikipedia. The tag is not sufficient for the file to go into Commons, where the rules require the file to be in the public domain in the country of origin (the UK in this case), and I can't prove that this file is definitely PD in Britain. But I'm reasonably sure you can use it as it is. I look forward to reading the Italian version of the article (or at least trying to read it - my Italian is not good) in due course. Best wishes, Tim riley talk 16:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Maud Carpenter

Hi Tim, can you find anything on her?♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:25, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

By God! There's a great name from my childhood. My mother used to take us to the Liverpool Playhouse, reigned over by the formidable MC. It will be a pleasure to dig round for things about her. Tim riley talk 15:38, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Wow, you've heard of her! Great. She seems to have been quite a character, no doubt loved/feared by a lot of people!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Shaw

I've sent you a couple of emails relating to my drafted response to the PR criticisms of the Beliefs and Legacy sections, but I don't know if you've received the last one, which asked you to look at User:Brianboulton/Sandbox5 and comment. Have you seen this? Please let me have thoughts soonest. Brianboulton (talk) 20:07, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

@Brianboulton: All spot-on it seems to me: a lovely job. I've left two brief suggestions on your sandpit talk page. Tim riley talk 20:34, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

OK, I have transferred the revised Legacy section to the article. I intend to add a couple of sentences on Shaw's influence on American drama, using the Dukore source, and I'll then respond to Sadads on the review page. I won't be able to do that tonight as I have some heavy TFA stuff to get through, so I'll do it tomorrow. I'll also check through the PR for any outstanding issues. I'm not expecting any additional contributions, and we can potentially thinkin terms of a FAC nomiation this weekend. Brianboulton (talk) 20:10, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

@Brianboulton:I've left some further suggestions in your sandbox here over the past couple of days. By all means add anything that you think useful. Tim riley talk 20:43, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, missed these. Will comment tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Update on latest actions here, at the foot of the page. Comments? Brianboulton (talk) 20:10, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

@Brianboulton: Thanks muchly. I've commented there, and I think we're very nearly ready for FAC. Tim riley talk 21:50, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I've been through the PR, can't see any outstanding points. I suggest give Sadads 24 hours to comment further, then go FAC on Sunday. Brianboulton (talk) 23:48, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Good. We are of one mind. I did the introductory spiel for the PR: do you want to do the one for the FAC? – Tim riley talk 00:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

I suggest you adapt your PR blurb for FAC, & that you do the nom with me named as chief supporter. Brianboulton (talk) 16:36, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

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Fauré piano music (2)

I know you are engaged on several other projects, but I have 2 ideas. To use {{Harv}} in all book references and to add a Google books url to each book. For example I was able to check Liszt expression "I've run out of fingers" in [1]. What do you think? I can help you out! Triplecaña (talk) 22:10, 9 March 2016 (UTC)�

What you do in the translated version is of course up to you, but personally I should be fiercely opposed to changing the refs to that loathsome, complicated, clumsy Harv system in the English article. Adding a url to an online copy of the books sounds excellent, though, as long as we are sure the links work all over the world. (I mention this because I have run across links to Google books added by American editors who assumed the texts would be readable everywhere, but in fact in other countries were only snippet views or no view at all.) Tim riley talk 22:41, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Also, please, if you're going to add GBooks links to an English article, (a) use an English-language Google site, whether that's .com, .ca, or something else so that the interface is in English, (b) use a page link where possible, a quote link where not, rather than that very long and cluttered search link, and (c) don't include an accessdate. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:50, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 Done following Nikkimaria's instructions per above. Just urls added. Triplecaña (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Toys out of perambulator

 There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.   Thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hubertgrove (talk • contribs) 16:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC) 

I don't think this really calls for any response, in all honesty. Tim riley talk 20:00, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Left out in the cold

Can you please add my name as co-nominator of Shaw at FAC? Brianboulton (talk) 12:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Too late! Already done. Now let's see what response we get. Tim riley talk 12:54, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

George Bernard Shaw

To anyone who is kind enough to watch this page: Brianboulton and I have put the article up for FAC here, where comments from all interested editors are earnestly invited. Tim riley talk 12:52, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

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Another PR request

Hi Tim, I have another article up at PR, should you have the time and inclination. This is the Senghenydd colliery disaster, a sad episode of some corporate mismanagement which led to the deaths of 339 miners and one rescue worker. All shocking stuff, and the event is still the worst mining disaster in the UK. If you could pop in to the PR at some point to comment, I'd be delighted to hear from you. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 14:10, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Of course! Be there during the week. Tim riley talk 21:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Shaw FAC

I've just added Shaw to the FAC page (you didn't finish the process!) - but this is mainly to tell you that I am feeling distinctly off-colour at present (not booze-related) and will probably not be able to contribute much to the FAC review for a day or two. Please hold the fort – will emerge when I can. Brianboulton (talk) 17:37, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Brianboulton: Sorry to hear you're not well, and wishing you a speedy recovery. I'll mind the FAC te absente. Thanks for repairing my sin of omission: not the first time I've made that mistake, daft old thing that I am. Tim riley talk 21:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I "emerged" today feeling distinctly better, but the powers that she be have decreed a day of rest and watching the ICC T20, so I probably won't be very active until tomorrow. I'll keep a furtive eye on tshe FAC. Brianboulton (talk) 10:27, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Remove material

The Requiem (Faurè) lead: count me among those who think that line is no lead material. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Then by all means remove it, Gerda. I am less inclined to give the benefit of the doubt when changes are made without any edit summary, but we can rely on you. Tim riley talk 09:25, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I try to keep what editors before found worth having, just don't know the reason in this case. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

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Pillar

The one-eyed adulterer awaits his fate at FAC. Surely they won't blow him up again, but who knows? Still hoping to make the date. Re GBS, I have almost fulfilled my promise to upgrade List of works by George Bernard Shaw; a few more licks of paint and it'll be done. It's frugal, but useful; in the future someone may wish to embellish it with first night details, or other extra info, but that someone is not me. Brianboulton (talk) 22:31, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

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Nocturne No. 4 review

In this sentence "a Nocturne which Cortot found rather too satisfied with its own languor" from Morrison's notes to a Fauré recording, can you help understanding its meaning? Is it a bad thing or good? Satisfied in this case could it mean fed up? (any page stalker that is an English native could probably solve this) Sorry for bothering you (again). Triplecaña (talk) 15:48, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) (By invite!) I started to answer but could not without sounding patronising. Anyway: I might be fluent in the language, but not the language of music! Sorry about that. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 16:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

My best attempt at conveying what I think Morrison means would be "...which Cortot thought was leisurely in a rather self-indulgent way" or "was self-indulgently drowsy/sleepy/relaxed". Sorry not to be more precise, but in English there are seldom any exact synonyms, and I can't pin down "languor" any more precisely than this. If anyone happens to see this and would like to suggest a better rendition, please feel free. Tim riley talk 17:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I understand langour (its languidez in Spanish, meaning "feeble" and "from low spirit, value or energy") and know how to describe it. The problem is with satisfied. Maybe it means that Cortot founds the piece to slow or relaxed in a fake way, meaning Fauré made it too drowsy or relaxed on purpose. Is Cortot describing Fauré's approach to the piece or the piece itself? Sorry for my stubbornness. Triplecaña (talk) 13:44, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Would like to know the original French. "Satisfied" sounds like taking something French too literally. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:44, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

The same phrase in French from Morrison notes PDF, un Nocturne dont Cortot pensait qu’ilse complaisait un peu trop de sa propre langueur, and German, einem Notturno, das laut Cortotzu sehr in seiner eigenen Trägheit schwelgt. The original reference comes from p. 155 La musique française small preview by Alfred Cortot, but I cannot read all of it. I found the book is available at the Médiathèque from L'Insitut Français in Madrid. Stay tuned! Triplecaña (talk) 13:44, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Here is what p. 147-148 of 1981 edition of Cortot's La musique française de piano in French:

Le quatrième et cinquième Nocturnes, op. 36 et 37, paraissent tous deux en 1885. Ils se rencontrent dans l'expression d'un sentiment commun, qui est, una fois encore, amoureux et nourri de désirs.

Le cinquième Nocturne, il est vrai, oppose à la tendre interrogation de son thème initial l'agitation d'un intermède pathétique. Mais c'est moins par l'assombrissement momentané qui pèse sur ses premières mesures que par la passion chaleureuse de son développement qu'il prend sa véritable signification.

Et la nostalgique rêverie qui emplit le quatrième Nocturne, qui se mêle aux lentes vibrations des cloches vespérales, qui porte en elle tant de regrets et d'élans, à quoi aspire-t-elle si ce n'est aux délices perdues d'un amour exilé?

Nous pressentons ici à nouveau ce mystérieux travail d'élaboration, qui, sans toucher à la nature des sentiments, en modifie portant l'accent, leur prête avec una noblesse plus grande une sorte d'inquiétude, une ardeur grave et soutenue et qui par deux fois dans l'œuvre de M. Fauré caractérise un moment de sa production que nous pourrions nommer de transition. Puis, s'affirme derechef, la serine plénitude d'une pensée maîtresse de ses moyens d'expression, justifiant par de nouvelles (next page) œuvres, plus hautes encore et plus belles, le choix réfléchi d'un style et d'une forme.

I don't find anything related to Morrison's quote about Cortot.Triplecaña (talk) 19:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Senghenydd

Hi Tim, Thank you once again for all your comments on the Senghenydd colliery disaster. This is now at FAC, should you wish to comment further. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2016 (UTC)