User talk:Spiderone/Archive 110

Vilikesa AfD

Just to address your argument there, since I am extremely surprised someone whose opinion I generally respect would !vote that way: the whole point of YOUNGATH requiring prolonged coverage is to prevent regional pieces on children's sports achievements from being used toward GNG. That he's so early in his career that prolonged coverage isn't possible is exactly why it's inappropriate to consider those two pieces SIGCOV. This is a child who has never played even semi-professionally and has only just been promoted to a tiny nation's U17 team; if that coverage was acceptable, I can guarantee every single state-level youth footballer would have a page, and that's clearly not in line with Wikipedia's scope. Please, please reconsider. JoelleJay (talk) 18:46, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

JoelleJay I can see what you mean. The main difference in our opinions, though, is that I wouldn't consider the coverage to be local. Fiji Times and FBC News are national level sources. In the same vein, Ethan Nwaneri clearly meets WP:GNG despite coverage not being prolonged and is the same age as this Fijian player. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

The "prolonged" clause applies to all coverage, not just local coverage. And I think there is an enormous difference between a kid who plays in the English premier league and a kid who isn't even on one of the semi-pro teams in a country of <1 million that has had little international success in football. We have no indication that this player on a youth team will ever play professionally, and we have plenty of evidence that playing professionally for OFC teams does not correspond reliably to GNG anyway. I just do not see how two interview-based articles (there's a strong consensus that content that merely reports what someone said or felt is not independent or secondary and does not count towards GNG, and at least the first source is almost entirely that) in regional media (how can we make a distinction in prestige between a "national newspaper" and a newspaper circulating within a city of the same population?) published in the same week can be enough to override YOUNGATH. Do you think we should have articles on every kid in Austin who gets a couple interviews in the Austin-American Statesman and the Austin Chronicle about their youth caps? JoelleJay (talk) 19:25, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I can't make a good argument that the coverage is prolonged because it just isn't. What I will say, though, is that it meets everything else that is required by WP:YOUNGATH. Given that the article does meet WP:GNG as well, I would say that's likely enough in this case. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:40, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Wait, how does the article meet GNG (YOUNGATH is describing what constitutes GNG for young players) when it's mostly just interview material? I just have a lot of trouble reconciling this argument with how you've !voted in the past...(e.g. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Oryan_Velox, which was a nearly identical situation). JoelleJay (talk) 20:07, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I felt that Velox failed both whereas I still see two decent sources with the other guy. I also thought YOUNGATH was tied to WP:NSPORTS rather than GNG so you can pass GNG but fail YOUNGATH. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:18, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

YOUNGATH emphasizes what is already stated in SUSTAINED/BLP1E. It doesn't introduce new restrictions, rather it clarifies that young athletes do not enjoy the (potential) exemption from BLP1E afforded elsewhere in NSPORT and gives quick-ref examples of the coverage excluded by NOTNEWS/ROUTINE (like routine interviews and local press). JoelleJay (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to strike my !vote for now. You're probably correct but I need to have a look at this another time when I can think straight. I'm currently spending a lot of energy fighting at AfDs for WP:V and WP:NOR. At least this Fijian footballer actually exists... Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Spiderone, and I totally understand the frustration with ridiculous AfD arguments, there seems to be an influx lately of people totally ignoring P&Gs to keep random low-level athletes (e.g. the Kaszuba one, plus Lihini and the newest activity at Robbins). JoelleJay (talk) 22:56, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

JoelleJay I think that we can both agree that we are at a crisis point when it comes to WP:N and WP:V. I hope that N and V emerge victorious otherwise the encyclopaedia that I fell in love with may meet its demise. I sincerely do not want that to be the outcome. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

BeritaSatu

Hello, and thanks for moving Berita Satu (TV program) to Berita Satu. Its website spells it BeritaSatu, but that name was protected and then temporarily salted after some sockpuppetry problems. What would you recommend? 2A01:4C8:49:B2A2:8453:DBFF:FE05:6E2F (talk) 10:40, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any salted titles. BeritaSatu is currently a redirect. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

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Some bubble tea for you!

For your ongoing efforts to clean up some unencyclopedic stuff. Cheers, Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

thank you Piotrus! Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Draft

Can you please have a look on this draft as it is related to football. Provide necessary suggestions and confirm does it meet football notability as the subject is involved in I-League 2, Indian Women's League etc KashmirValleyEditor (talk) 14:06, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest resubmitting it after improvements first. Please read the notes as to why it was declined. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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Question about drafting

Hello there, I've noticed that you have interacted with an editor recently that I have had some issues with for the past several months. The root of my frustration—and the question I have for you—is the editor's seeming unwillingness to use draftspace to create articles. Instead, they publish incomplete articles and proceed to update them in the same way that most other editors would update a draft before publishing it—start with a base, adding information as you find it. In this editor's case, they publish the incomplete article and then add information over the course of perhaps a dozen additional edits, leaving the article in a constant state of flux. In function, then, this editor is publishing drafts without review or adherence to standard article publishing processes. A good recent example of this is 1991 FC Desna Chernihiv season. I have left a message about this on the editor's talk page. They responded affirmatively but have not changed their actions at all. So, my questions are: a) Is this editor's process just the way things work, and I should just get over my annoyance with it? And b) if not, what steps can I take to make sure that this editor starts following the correct process and stops publishing incomplete, poorly written, draft-quality articles? I'm not trying to strong-arm at all. But this editor seems to operate with very little regard for proper practice, notability guidelines, and standards of language, and talk page messages have made very, very little difference. I appreciate any help you can offer. Anwegmann (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Anwegmann hi, there are quite a few editors who simply refuse to use draftspace. One possible reason for this is because articles in draft are not found in internet searches and also you're not allowed to link to them from other mainspace articles. The second reason is because draftspace is only really useful because of WP:AfC. If you have zero interest in working collaboratively and zero interest in getting feedback from other editors, then draftspace would have no appeal to you. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

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Seeking for help

I hope you understand the current situation of badminton biographies. Some of the WikiProject Badminton members misunderstand that SNG can supersede GNG, and believe that notability equals to achievements instead of coverage. Can you please look into some of the articles I nominated for AFD here? Only two people who do not seem to have read the notability guidelines participated in all of them. I believe this is hazardous to the Wikipedia community, as no one else is noticing the bad situation. Nowadays AFD participants don't refer to guidelines, which makes me very worried. Please help keep an eye on badminton articles, and notify me if you want any assistance. Thank you very much on keeping up the notability standards! Timothytyy (talk) 13:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Try not to be disheartened Timothytyy as this is normal reaction to any AfD for a sportsperson. It's a shame that sources aren't being submitted as that would resolve the issue and that the SNG (WP:NBAD) isn't even met in some of these cases. If you look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople you'll see a lot of similar arguments across other sports although at least, in most cases, sources are provided. Admins will give more weight to policy-based arguments when closing a discussion. If you look at those discussions, you'll see loads of examples of people like JoelleJay having to fight quite hard to remind people that GNG does take priority over these presumptions of notability due to playing in x event or winning y event. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Spider I am really tired of my pages being deleted, I wish they would give me the time to edit. I am sorry for using offensive language but you can definitely understand the frustration. Thermicknight7 (talk) 02:27, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

WikiCup 2023 May newsletter

The second round of the 2023 WikiCup has now finished. Contestants needed to have scored 60 points to advance into round 3. Our top five scorers in round 2 all included a featured article among their submissions and each scored over 500 points. They were:

• Iazyges (1040) with three FAs on Byzantine emperors, and lots of bonus points.
• Unlimitedlead (847), with three FAs on ancient history, one GA and nine reviews.
• Epicgenius (636), a WikiCup veteran, with one FA on the New Amsterdam Theatre, four GAs and eleven DYKs
• BennyOnTheLoose (553), a seasoned competitor, with one FA on snooker, six GAs and seven reviews.
• FrB.TG (525), with one FA, a Lady Gaga song and a mass of bonus points.

Other notable performances were put in by Sammi Brie, Thebiguglyalien, MyCatIsAChonk, PCN02WPS, and AirshipJungleman29.

So far contestants have achieved thirteen featured articles between them, one being a joint effort, and forty-nine good articles. The judges are pleased with the thorough reviews that are being performed, and have hardly had to reject any. As we enter the third round, remember that any content promoted after the end of round 2 but before the start of round 3 can be claimed in round 3. Remember too that you must claim your points within 14 days of "earning" them.

If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article nominations, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed (remember to remove your listing when no longer required). Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)