Marilia05

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I have NEVER succeeded writing or editing anything on Wikipedia. I edit and publish online for 20 years but, guys, I won't read your 200 page tutorial. Someone I don't know published a page about me and someone else edited it with false information and my lawyer is saying it will create problems. This is the person. I don't know her, never saw her before:

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1ria:Betty_VH

This is the page someone created about me

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marília_Coutinho

I work. I can't waste time learning to use this platform. I tried MANY times and NO, it doesn't work. "Edit this information": I click, I enter, nothing happens.

So please, until I find somebody to actually publish a page about me, could you bring this one down? I am the real Marilia Coutinho, I can prove it and I think it is really awful to allow this to happen.

Marilia05 (talk) 20:51, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the page you're asking about is on the Portuguese Wikipedia. The English and the Portuguese Wikipedia are sister projects whose policies may differ; people on the English Wikipedia cannot provide help with the Portuguese Wikipedia. That said, the text added by Betty VH to pt:Marília Coutinho in this edit seems to be taken from here, which in turn has the information from here. And that page seems to say the information is straight from you? Maybe I'm misreading something; I have to rely in part on automatic translations - that's part of why editors of the English Wikipedia can't help with the Portuguese Wikipedia.

Please also note that Wikipedia has a strict policy against legal threats. We'll gladly help you correct errors in the page, but bringing lawyers into a debate has a chilling effect. If you want to pursue legal means you are of course welcome to do so, but you cannot edit Wikipedia at the same time. My advice would be to point out what exactly is wrong; then it's far easier to find a solution. Huon (talk) 21:43, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

-- Marilia, sorry, I did NOT create the page! My only contribution to it can be checked here: https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mar%C3%ADlia_Coutinho&type=revision&diff=52628206&oldid=52614226.

I'm sorry if it's not right: this never happened to me, I never publish anything without researching and checking the info. I'm a cnotributor to the pt-Wikipedia since 2006 and received a badge of "autoconfirmed editor" about 2 years ago, which means that the information I add is realiable and doesn't need to be checked by other editors.

If something I added is not right, I'll set that for you -- or even if it is something added by someone else...

But anyone can edit the page, as you certainly know.

What is in it that is not true?

Are you "the" Marília Coutinho about whom this page talks?

--Betty VH (talk) 10:49, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Marilia05 (talk) 21:47, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

The two government sources you cited are correct. She added I own a company that I don't, and that is serious.

My Portuguese isn't good enough for this. Maybe you can tell Betty VH what the company is that you don't own? Then Betty VH can most easily fix the page. Huon (talk) 22:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:Marilia05

A tag has been placed on User:Marilia05 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:10, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

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Marilia05 (talk) 22:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Why do you want to delete my user? Somebody mentioned a legal threat I did NOT make. I did mentioned that the false information could create legal problems for me (after all, the page is about me). So I managed to edit it. Why should you delete my profile? I've been an active user for over 10 years, regularly making donations and helping.

Just because somebody got mad at my difficulty dealing with the false information doesn't seem to be a reason to delete my account.

The deletion of your user page wasn't related to either the page on the Portuguese Wikipedia, true or false, or to legal threats. User pages on Wikipedia are a place to write about ourselves as editors of Wikipedia. They are not an appropriate place for article drafts, nor for "profiles" that are unrelated to you as an editor of Wikipedia. If you want me to, I can undelete the page and turn it into a draft. However, since all Wikipedia content should be based on reliable published sources and that page didn't cite any, it's not ready to become an encyclopedia article at this point. You may want to read WP:Autobiography, WP:Your first article and WP:Referencing for beginners. Huon (talk) 22:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --Marilia05 (talk) 22:22, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

I revised your criteria for speedily deletion. I found nowhere I violated any of your guidelines. On the contrary, I have been a regular user of wikipedia for over 10 years, making regular donations and being another peoceful reader. Now, however, someone I don't know and have not authorized published an information about me, saying I owned a company that I don't. I can suffer legal consequences for that - not Wikipedia: me.

Someone read this and interpreted as a legal threat. How? Wikipedia will suffer no consequences. However, the information may be used by third parties in Brazil is "by-proxy" evidence about something I am not doing.

All I wanted was help fixing this. I guess I managed to do it.

Now I am curious: what prompted this "speedily deletion" request?

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Marilia05 (talk) 22:29, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Houn, I think I managed to delete the phrase on the page. You see, the information containing "MAD Powerlifting" and "IPL" is not there anymore: I delete them.

Yes, I will talk to Betty, especially to know why she posted that information. As you well observed, the government provided information or the ones published at Mainstream Media are correct. That one about the company, though... I wonder where she got that from. Am I making myself a bit more clear?

BTW, a friend wants to create a page in English (it would be the English version of that one). I think if he creates an independent page it won't look good, or it may go against Wikipedia guidelines. What do you suggest he does? Or she (there's a designer friend offering help).

Also, how do we make sure nobody "strange" edits the information? I feel uncomfortable with any stranger being able to edit information about me.

Hello. It is not advised to create articles that a person has a conflict of interest with. My suggestion, is to create a draft (using Wikipedia:Article Wizard), so that another user can review the draft before publishing. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:38, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Furthermore, because Wikipedia and its sister projects are about allowing "anyone to edit", articles (including the one about you) can be edited by others. Because Wikipedia is based on a principle of verifiability, information added or changed should have sources and be factually correct. If incorrect or problematic edits are made often, the page can be protected, however, this is often one of the last resorts to stopping said edits. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

-- Marilia, unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately...) there's no way you can prevent people from editing info about you or about anyone or anything. There are even some strange stories: for instance, a lady, married to a famous actor in Brazil, wanted to edit the date of their wedding, which was wrong in Wikipedia. Twice she corrected it, but it was returned to the previous wrong date, because it came from a "reliable source" and she didn't have a link to prove it wrong. Her wedding certificate was no good, because it is an "original document" and Wikipedia is not a place for original research.

It was no use she complaining that she knew when she got married...

I suppose you can remove info without proof that it was inaccurate, as you did, but the contrary is hard to do.

Only pages about very controversial subjects, usually in politics, are locked. --Betty VH (talk) 19:55, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Marilia05 (talk) 22:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Got it. Ironically, I don't know the person who created the page about me or the one who edited it. Then my lawyer wrote to me saying there was a mistake there. I actually discovered this page last year. So please let me know what you think: I talked to two trusted friends and they will do whatever they want with my permission. I agree with Wikipedia: I nobody should talk about themselves. But when you find out you are there and people didn't even bother contacting you to check if the info is accurate, it is a reason for concern. After all, I'm still alive..

Wikipedia content should be based on reliable published sources such as articles written by newspapers or reputable magazines. When writing articles, particularly about living people (a sensitive topic, as Wikipedia is well aware), we rely on such sources to ensure the accuracy of our content (to the best of our ability; errors may of course occur). Contacting the article's subject is not required and would in many cases be difficult or unhelpful. Just imagine the problems we'd face if we needed to contact, say, Kim Jong Un.

I have explained my advice for your friends above. Huon (talk) 23:18, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. There's actually too much public information in Portuguese (mainstream media). There should be no problem for anyone to back it. What I deleted had no citation, so, I guess I did right by deleting it. Look, I'm not Roger Waters. I'm known in a small circle and happened to receive a lot of unwanted MSM attention a few times. Scientists are really not that cool, unless they become too cool.

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Marilia05 (talk) 12:42, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Betty_HV, I'm Marilia. Maybe you can help me. I managed to delete the incorrect information (it's a long story, but the source was wrong and not certified). I am not a Wikipedia editor, I have a hard time here, the adm and other editors are not really helpful and I am still having a hard time navigating this. The system is totally different than what I did before in editing html or other platform systems. I don't really want to become an editor because it's such a time consuming investment.

I have no idea if this will even reach you. Could you email me instead? My email is everywhere. I am sure if I type it here some editor will come and post a punishment sign to delete my account, like before, without even explaining.

Yes, I see imprecisions all over subjects I am an expert on. No, I don't edit because of how Wikipedia is organized. I think Wikipedia is losing a lot of FREE important potential editors because of that.

When you want to contact someone about an issue on the Portuguese Wikipedia, you should do so on the relevant Portuguese article's talk page or on their Portuguese user talk page. For Betty VH, that's pt:Usuária Discussão:Betty VH. A message left there is far more likely to reach them than a message left on your user talk page on the English Wikipedia. I hope this helps. Huon (talk) 13:24, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Marilia05 (talk) 18:11, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Believe me, I tried to leave a message on her page. Your sarcasm is totally uncalled for. I have absolutely no patience with this thing. I just want to solve my problem. Unfortunately I am sure you don't allow publishing my email, since I surely prefer to contact Betty that way and not in this ridiculously disorganized and clumsy structure.

Funny, I spent 10 years contributing financially to Wikipedia and I am an actual expert, so I could help in content. But you guys make me think twice. Your disrespect for people is so disgusting that interacting with you is something I don't look forward to.

Huon was simply trying to help, and when I read their comment I find no sarcasm - you will have more luck contacting a Portuguese Wikipedian on the Portuguese Wikipedia. I see there have been multiple attempts to ping the user on the English Wikipedia as well, but if it's not one of their regularly-perused wikis they won't get the notification.

Additionally, if you look at her contributions on the pt wiki, you'll see she hasn't edited since 9 Nov, which might explain why there hasn't been a response. Please be patient, as we're all volunteers! If you want more help, change the {{help me-helped}} back into a {{help me}}, stop by the Teahouse, Wikipedia's live help channel, or the help desk to ask someone for assistance. Primefac (talk) 19:13, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry that my comment appeared to be sarcasm; it wasn't intended as such. I didn't see any messages you left at Betty VH's Portuguese user talk page and assumed you hadn't found that page; finding the right spot to leave a message on Wikipedia can be tricky, particularly when multiple languages are involved. I also notified Betty VH of this conversation so she'll see that there are messages here that may be of interest to her. As Primefac noted, this wasn't the first time Betty VH was notified, though. There are two other options you may want to pursue:

1. Since you mention email, you may want to email Betty VH via Special:EmailUser/Betty VH. If you have already done so and Betty VH hasn't replied, then there's little we can do about that.
2. If you need help with the Portuguese Wikipedia, but Betty VH doesn't have to be the person helping you, you can try pt:Wikipédia:Contato/Fale com a Wikipédia.

If you need help with the English Wikipedia, I may be able to help you if you tell us what, exactly, you need help with. Huon (talk) 19:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

-- Marilia, I suppose you speak Portuguese, don't you? We could talk in my page on the pt-Wikipedia. Only once I've had an article proposed for deletion here, in en-Wikipedia. It was about Samuel Johnson, but not THE Samuel Johnson: a namesake, who was also a linguist and teacher and wrote the FIRST American dictionary. I managed to prove I was right and the article was kept, but I was so scared that I never remade the inner connections I had made before, and it now stays as an orphan article. --Betty VH (talk) 20:22, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Marilia05 (talk) 20:58, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

ALL OF YOU:

1. Betty: I left messages in three pages for you, including your talk page. If you didn't see it, I guess maybe it wasn't so "plug & play" and I really don't WANT to read about "how to edit stuff on Wikipedia" and "how to contact people" (which I, unfortunately, did read, so I did leave a msg on your talk page).
2. I fixed the issue on that page. I never requested it to be deleted, Betty. I have no idea where you took that from. Someone else is going to fix the content for me. As I said, I won't waste time with this.
3. I did go to the page in Portuguese. The proof of it is that I edited it (look at the edit history). No, I won't do it again. I have no idea why you don't communicate the easy way.
4. Yes, you were rude and sarcastic. It's always easy to do that when you hide behind a nickname. My name is Marilia Coutinho, I am accountable for all my acts. You can find my email anywhere. You are not accountable.

OVER. Therefore: => DON'T delete the page - I never requested that. Other people will go there and will fix it. => No, Betty, it was not your "fault". You just relied on information not published on MSM. Because I am me, I know where the information is and I can help whoever will fix that page. => Because this platform is so confusing, you have missed the point way, way back where I said I FIXED THE PROBLEM. I just wanted to talk to Betty, by one of you guys' request. I tried.